Ian Christiansen
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Shelby Township, MI
How do the 4WD Jeepspeed guys do it?
-
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Rally Comanche
- Thread starter tbburg
- Start date
How do the 4WD Jeepspeed guys do it?
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
Uhhhh, they have to run SCORE spec'd cages and seats. They cut the trans tunnel and sink it down. It's close but it fits.
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
Are the score rules a big secret or something? I just went to their website to look them up, and they aren't posted there, just a link on how to order them.
I cut the tunnel, and it would be VERY close with the proper seats and cage design. So close that I doubt it would work well. If I didn't need the bars in the roof and could get that 2" back, I could probably make it work.
I cut the tunnel, and it would be VERY close with the proper seats and cage design. So close that I doubt it would work well. If I didn't need the bars in the roof and could get that 2" back, I could probably make it work.
tbburg
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Scottsdale AZ
The SCORE rules aren't secret. They just want your fifty bucks.
The SCORE spec is pretty close to the FIA spec. If you're really curious, you can look at the BITD rule book: similar to SCORE. Link to BITD rules
We have the same problem with zoomy97ACRs Comanche. Floor's cut and seat mounts are in the way of where the Xfr case should be. Most of the Jeepspeed guys who bother with 4WD manage to beat the hump down enough to clear a seat and mounts. Running poly motor and trans mounts helps as the drive train doesn't move around as much.
The SCORE spec is pretty close to the FIA spec. If you're really curious, you can look at the BITD rule book: similar to SCORE. Link to BITD rules
We have the same problem with zoomy97ACRs Comanche. Floor's cut and seat mounts are in the way of where the Xfr case should be. Most of the Jeepspeed guys who bother with 4WD manage to beat the hump down enough to clear a seat and mounts. Running poly motor and trans mounts helps as the drive train doesn't move around as much.
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
This is the minimum cage design accepted by Rally America. If I read the BITD rules correctly, you aren't required to have the green bars in the roof, the red downward angled door bar, and only one green bar in the rear x. Is that right?
With the green roof bar in my truck, they are not right up against the roof (made it easier to weld), so I lost a few inches on top of the bar, and then the 2 inches from the bar width itself, and my seat is mounted as low as it physically go. I have just enough room to fit. Maybe I could have enough room if I put the bars as close as physically possible to the roof....but I didn't bother because it wasn't necessary for my setup.
Those rules don't require anything specific in the way of seats either, so you could probably get away with a seat that was thinner/smaller. These seats are so wide on the side bolstering that the only way to mount them and the height necessary was to completely cut the tunnel to the minimum width.
Is it impossible? No. Is it a pain? Yes. What benefit is there to running 4wd? None, really. I have just as much fun in 2wd, and don't have to go as fast to be competitive, which means there is less danger of a really bad crash (we lost someone at the last event in Olympus, Washington). Doing 100mph in the open desert is very different that through the woods. Plus, there is a 2wd subseries that actually pays money
Here are a couple of rally crashes that driver/codriver walked away from unharmed (thank god for safety equipment):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Js_BYaU80w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV0YvFhYzrE
xcm
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Southern Oregon
does travis pastrana ever NOT crash?
but seriously, its crazy how far and fast rally car's tumble after the first roll.... you dont see that with trophy trucks...
but seriously, its crazy how far and fast rally car's tumble after the first roll.... you dont see that with trophy trucks...
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
They are called "Stage Notes". It just describes the road's condition ahead.
Left or Right is obviously which way the road turns.
The number after Left or Right is the severity of the turn on a scale of 1-6. 6 is flat out, 1 is hairpin, 3 is roughly a 90 degree turn. There are also slight modifiers of "plus" or "minus", so if it's wider than a 3 but not quite a 4, it is either a "3+" or "4-".
All other numbers refer to distances. 30 would be 30 meters until the next thing.
Then add in a sprinkle of other descriptors, like "over crest", "don't cut", "tightens", "opens", "into" are all common adjectives.
So, in the video, Christian says:
"L5- over crest into R5+"
Which means there is a left turn which is a little tighter than a 5 (which is probably top of 4th gear in that car) followed directly by a crest in the road (which might give some air time) and directly after the crest is a right turn a little straighter than a 5.
I found a pic of the turn descriptions:
As you can see from the image, there are also lg (long), Vlg (very long), and Xlg (extremely long).
Here are what the notes look like:
There is a lot of shorthand used so that it's easy to read while on stage.
Left or Right is obviously which way the road turns.
The number after Left or Right is the severity of the turn on a scale of 1-6. 6 is flat out, 1 is hairpin, 3 is roughly a 90 degree turn. There are also slight modifiers of "plus" or "minus", so if it's wider than a 3 but not quite a 4, it is either a "3+" or "4-".
All other numbers refer to distances. 30 would be 30 meters until the next thing.
Then add in a sprinkle of other descriptors, like "over crest", "don't cut", "tightens", "opens", "into" are all common adjectives.
So, in the video, Christian says:
"L5- over crest into R5+"
Which means there is a left turn which is a little tighter than a 5 (which is probably top of 4th gear in that car) followed directly by a crest in the road (which might give some air time) and directly after the crest is a right turn a little straighter than a 5.
I found a pic of the turn descriptions:
As you can see from the image, there are also lg (long), Vlg (very long), and Xlg (extremely long).
Here are what the notes look like:
There is a lot of shorthand used so that it's easy to read while on stage.
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xcm
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Southern Oregon
leave it to trophy trucks to suck up the worst the desert has to throw at them, including during a roll. but yeah,i was thinking that, and also the course conditions, the rally stuff is usually harder packed, i'd imagine. inducing bounces, instead of energy absorbing drags. harshest TT barrel roll that ive seen is householder in DP 5?6?. still nooo comparison.
used to think of TT's are far superior to rally cars... those 2 vids just show that it's apples and oranges.
tbburg
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Scottsdale AZ
Thanks for the primer on the co-dog notes. Always wondered what that's about.
On the cage, correct, you don't need an X on the B-hoop. A single diagonal is acceptable. Same with the roof bars. Pair not required, but at least a single diagonal required. The A-pillar brace bars are now required by SCORE(rule change in '10 for '11 I think), and BITD will probably require them with their next rulebook change.
The 7118 truck has a very similar cutout on the driver's side to what you did. passenger side didn't require any mods.
If you check out Larrythedog's build thread, the first post shows his seat mounts.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1020245
That's how they have enough space for a T-case. Also, I think the suspension seats used for desert racing are a lot narrower at the bottom then the hard-shell seats you guys are using
On the cage, correct, you don't need an X on the B-hoop. A single diagonal is acceptable. Same with the roof bars. Pair not required, but at least a single diagonal required. The A-pillar brace bars are now required by SCORE(rule change in '10 for '11 I think), and BITD will probably require them with their next rulebook change.
The 7118 truck has a very similar cutout on the driver's side to what you did. passenger side didn't require any mods.
If you check out Larrythedog's build thread, the first post shows his seat mounts.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1020245
That's how they have enough space for a T-case. Also, I think the suspension seats used for desert racing are a lot narrower at the bottom then the hard-shell seats you guys are using
We run 4wd and have neither cut nor beat the hump down. One of the WORST things you can do to these unibody stationwagons is to hack the trans tunnel. That adds A LOT of strength and when you cut or beat on them they lose rigidity. Once they start cracking in the tunnel the chassis is on the way to retirement.
sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
Well there was no way to fit an FIA seat without doing something.
IXNAYXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wherever the next race is.
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sureshot007
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kenmore, NY
Do you have an X in the roof? From the pics, it looks like you are sitting pretty high. My head with a helmet would hit the roof bars if it was any higher.
BTW - I saw the story about LeMons - my LeMons/Chump Car team emailed me about it right after and wanted to turn the comanche into a LeMons car.
BTW - I saw the story about LeMons - my LeMons/Chump Car team emailed me about it right after and wanted to turn the comanche into a LeMons car.
IXNAYXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Wherever the next race is.
No x-brace, but we did add a bar fore/aft that ties in the b-hoop and the front bar of the halo. I'm 5'10 and I fit...but our taller drivers do have an issue. We also built that cage in 6 hours...it needs some serious TLC and rethinking (which is in the works).
I really want to take ours rallying.
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