Question for fabricators

[riverfever]

I was really impressed by some of the rigs that I got to check out at the meeting on Saturday. I talked to several members that have done some pretty impressive fabbing on their own. In early December I had ordered a rear, spare carrier bumper and a set of rock rails from one company. I was bummed to find out when I got home Saturday that my order of approx. $1000 had been "overlooked". Before placing the order, I wondered if I'd be better off buying a welder and then building my own stuff. I'm almost glad that the order was lost b/c now I can re-evaluate my plan of spending all that money and still not having a welder or knowing how to use it. Before the meeting, I never thought I'd ever do anything hardcore like Carnage but I was really pumped when I got home. Maybe after I learn to drive, and some modifications, the tougher trails will come.

 

[Kittrell]

You forgot to ask a question............ :laugh3:

 

[riverfever]

Yeah yeah yeah. After I read through it, I thought the same. I know everyones answer is that I should probably buy a welder. I know I could get into some type of 140 mig and probably get the other equipment and even some scrap steel to start for less than what I was gonna pay the company. I guess I'm just thinking outloud. Carry on. :wave:

 

[Frank Z]

Start with something simple, like a rear bumper and see if fabbing your own stuff still seems like a good idea.

 

[riverfever]

I was thinking of maybe trying a front bumper first b/c I thought it would be easier. Something simple with D-ring tabs on it. As a non-fabber, I would think that the mounting points would be the hardest part.

 

[Frank Z]

Front bumper mounting points are simple, you simply add longer brackets down the frame rails and use some of the existing bolt holes, not just the three that the original bumper mounted to.

The rear bumper requires a bit more thought, but you can still connect to the original mounting points and tie in to the nutstrips for your receiver.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

river,

Not to piss on yer parade, but please be aware that a 120 mig isn't the best welder to be making a bumper with tow points / D-ring tabs on it - especially when you're lacking welding experience. I'd hate for poor welds to cause an anchor point to become a projectile when pulling on your rig.

Tow points and anchors for those tow points shouldn't be taken lightly. I'd suggest using tow points that incorporate large bolts as well as the welds if you're gonna build it. Just to be safe ya know?

A 120 mig is fine for smaller fabbing, but if you're gonna build stout bumpers with 3/16 or 1/4 inch steel, you really should go with a 220 mig.

Sorry, but I found myself in the same situation as you are and got the same lecture from the senior members a few years back.... very good advice to this day.

 

[Frank Z]

I agree that a 220v welder is better than a 110v, but I've built a tire carrier, rock sliders, tranny skid, and a front bumper with tow points and a winch mount using my 110v Lincoln welder. All have held up very well and show no signs of failing anytime soon. The key is proper prep of the area to be welded, proper setup of the welder and patience.

 

[riverfever]

Oh man...consider my parade pissed. :laugh3:
That's what I wanted...advice from all of you...my parades still on. A guy I know that lives over in Buena Vista used to do Baja stuff and is an amazing fabricator. We had this exact discussion. He wanted me to get a Miller 220. It was gonna cost me about 1200. I couldn't see dropping that money without any experience.
I knew that a lot of guys had done some big stuff with a 110. Look at fatwreck: he's got quite a few fab mods on his and it seems pretty reliable. (I know he didn't make the rear bumper). Then again, I'm SURE Brian know's what he's doing and the penetration of the welds are good.
That's why I said screw it and planned on buying a bumper but the one I want is built by a guy that has not come close to impressing me with his business practices. My buddy said I could come to his shop and he'd teach me how to weld and I could even bring materials over and use the 220. It's a bit of a road trip at 70 miles but I really want to learn to do this stuff. With his guidance it wouldbe safe. The last thing I want is something dangerous to happen out on the trail with you all. I'll call him and talk about this again. Thanks guys.

river,

Not to piss on yer parade, but please be aware that a 120 mig isn't the best welder to be making a bumper with tow points / D-ring tabs on it - especially when you're lacking welding experience. I'd hate for poor welds to cause an anchor point to become a projectile when pulling on your rig.

Tow points and anchors for those tow points shouldn't be taken lightly. I'd suggest using tow points that incorporate large bolts as well as the welds if you're gonna build it. Just to be safe ya know?

A 120 mig is fine for smaller fabbing, but if you're gonna build stout bumpers with 3/16 or 1/4 inch steel, you really should go with a 220 mig.

Sorry, but I found myself in the same situation as you are and got the same lecture from the senior members a few years back.... very good advice to this day.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

He wanted me to get a Miller 220. It was gonna cost me about 1200. I couldn't see dropping that money without any experience.

Whoa...... There's NO reason to spend $1200 on a 220 welder.

I got my Hobart (off brand of a Miller) brand new from a welding supply shop for $560 shipped from Ebay, spent $35 on a cart at Harbor Freight, $75 for the CO/Argon gas and tank, and $80 for an auto darkening helmet.

Do some shoppin' son! :laugh3:

 

[riverfever]

My buddy is only a Miller man. He wouldn't think of working with anything else. I'm sure I couldn't tell a difference. My other issue with getting a 220 is that I'm renting a house until we find one. My landlord is kinda strange. She flipped out one day when I had my Jeep up while working on it. She would NOT be OK with me getting the proper wiring installed to run the thing.

I'll check on ebay. Hobart shows a 180 Handler that sells for 800 and an Ironman 210 that sells for 1500. Is either of those the one you have?

 

[riverfever]

I just looked at Millers site. It was a 251 that he was trying to talk me into buying.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I hear ya about the freaking landlord.

I got around it by having an electrician buddy make me an extension cord with the proper adaptors so I could plug it into my clothes dryer outlet. Worked great! The dryer was about 20 feet from the garage door. I'm properly wired now in this house, but the cord was a life saver since I also had a 220 air compressor.

I have the Hobart Handler 175. Factory reconditioned ones available for under $500 shipped On Ebay here

 

[riverfever]

Yella...now would something like that be able to do the heavier steel and get good penetration to be safe while still being able to do simpler stuff like patching floors?

The extension chord sounds like a good temporary solution until I get out of this house. I don't even think our dryer is 210 though. I think the oly way I could get around it is to mess with the fuse box.

I spoke with my buddy today though. He is going to help me with it. I basically need to come up with some designs now and some measurements. This is kind of what I was thinking of:

The only thing I don't care for is how the corner/side piece on the bumper is lower than the bottom of the quarter panel. I suppose I could just cut the lower quarter panel to match the bumper...as long as doing so won't compromise the integrity of the uni body. I think I also want one maybe 2 jerry can mounts.

Thanks for the link to the ebay welders too.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

River,

Yes, the Hobart 175 has all the versatility the average joe fabber needs. I wouldn't have recommended it otherwise. I've used it to weld torn fender steel, welded 3/16" steel rocker tube to the sheet metal rockers, welded my cage tube and gussets, and built lots of armor, bumper mods and what not that was made with 1/4" steel.

I don't see myself needing to upgrade at all to a different welder.

The bumper pics you posted look like a nice bumper. The only thing I don't care for is that the bumper itself looks like it was made upside down. Seems to me it'd be smarter to put the angled surfaces on the bottom side to act as a sliding surface. The flat top would give ya something to stand on if you needed to. If you needed to step onto that bumper the way it's built, you'd slip right off.

My .02 anyway......

 

[fatwreck]

The only thing I don't care for is that the bumper itself looks like it was made upside down. Seems to me it'd be smarter to put the angled surfaces on the bottom side to act as a sliding surface.

I think the angled surfaces that you're seeing with that bumper are just to fill the "void" underneath the tail lights. You know how it looks funny when someone builds a straight bumper and doesn't incorporate those areas?

Otherwise that bumper is pretty flat all around. But I agree with Troy.....angled surfaces are good at the bottom to make for good sliders.

You can weld a lot of stuff with a 110 machine. I would do some more research....read up on what other people are using....check out your bank account to see what you can afford....and buy accordingly. I've always been one to try and do it once and do it right whenever possible.

 

[Rock Yacht]

My .02 for what it's worth. Go see your buddy in BV, take some beers and do what you have to to let him use his equipment for a couple hours. Have him show you some basics and then make some lawn art out of his scrap bin parts. Actually weld something before spending money on these tools. You may find you don't want to do this after doing it, then the outlay of cash for the tools would be kinda pointless. Make sense?

If you have fun making lawn art (my term for parts that become scrap) then proceed accordingly. Don't try to make a bumper the first time out, just weld scrap pieces together using various joint techniques. Lap, Butt, Inside corner, Outside corner, tube notches oh and in various positions, flat, vertical up/down and if you're really feely froggy - overhead.

As for a welder to purchase, I too am a Miller kinda guy. But I do this for a living and need dependable equipment that can run all day/night long without a hickup. The Hobarts are decent machines and for their intended use (home or part time) they are decent. As troy points out shop around you can get a really good deal if you mail order, be forewarned you usually won't get squat for service after the sale...

Any machine in the 170-180 amp range will do anything you can ask of it, unfortunately this means a 220v machine. We have a Miller 135 (110v) at the shop but it's strictly used for sheetmetal work and for portability to events and wheeling trips. It is a good little machine but you really need to know what you are doing to weld anything over 1/8". We also have 2 bigger Millers - a 210 and a 251. Plus a Hobart Brothers Beta Mig 200 (before Miller bought Hobart out, much better machine than the current Hobarts) and a Miller Syncrowave TIG.

I've never seen a clothes dryer that isn't 220v. When I started putzing around with this fab stuff as a kid My dad had an extension cord that we would plug his old buzz box (stick welder) into. Only time it got us in trouble is when ma wanted to use the dryer. haha I still have and use that extension cord! Make sure it's heavy enough (guage of wire). Mine is 20' of 2-3 (2 guage - 3 wire)

 

[MMIXJ]

i think bob is right on the money...

i designed my rear bumper (custom mounts, corners and hoop) and had a friend of mine help (er, rather i helped him) do the cutting, grinding, bending and the welding. for such a relatively simple (or so i thought) design, i was surprised at the time the whole process took from start to finish. it gave me a whole new appreciation for aftermarket 4x4 products and the (what sometimes seems like) astronomical prices. the equipment ain't cheap, the materials ain't cheap, and the time involved can be extensive.

while i would love someday to plunk down some ca$h for a bender/welder/etc. and learn to use it all, i realized this is a pretty significant commitment in time and money and something i'm not ready for yet; rather, i'd rather supply the design/engineering and assist someone more skilled who already owns the proper tools and has the experience.

terry

 

[freerider15]

I've been looking at getting a welder for some time now myself. A reconditioned Hobart Handler for $500 to my door would be what I would go with as well. My uncle makes everything for his Blazer in Arkansas, and has been telling me to get a welder for a WHILE now. Since I'll be back at CSU for school and in a house, i'll have access to what I need. Anyone willing to show me some ropes/tricks this coming summer... since thats when I'll probably be getting one. I'll be reading alot on welding before I actually get it, that way I at least might know SOMETHING!

 

[planefixer]

I've been looking at getting a welder for some time now myself. A reconditioned Hobart Handler for $500 to my door would be what I would go with as well. My uncle makes everything for his Blazer in Arkansas, and has been telling me to get a welder for a WHILE now. Since I'll be back at CSU for school and in a house, i'll have access to what I need. Anyone willing to show me some ropes/tricks this coming summer... since thats when I'll probably be getting one. I'll be reading alot on welding before I actually get it, that way I at least might know SOMETHING!

I think WATERPROOFING should be the first task.