Proposed new and increased fees in SNF, affects Hermit Valley

sdspearo

sdspearo

NAXJA Member
NAXJA Member
Location
Encinitas, Ca
Thanks for posting Art, I had no idea! I just wrote an email, details as follows for anyone who wants to use some of it for their own:

Hello Citizens Advisory Committee:

I'd like to write to you in opposition of the proposed Stanislaus National Forest user fee increases and in opposition to any new fees to be implemented on current 'fee free/no fee' sites. This includes proposals at: Sourgrass, Union East, Beardsley, Rainbow Pool, Carlon, Hermit Valley, Herring Creek, Herring Reservoir, Black Springs Off Highway Vehicle, Mosquito Lakes Campground, Stanislaus River Campground, Big Meadow Group Campground, and the Tuolumne River permits.

Imposing user fees/increased user fees to these areas implements a barrier to entry for those who currently enjoy these sites as a lower cost alternate to other paid camping areas.

As a part of the Forest Service Mission and Vision - it is published that the agency's goal is "Providing access to resources and experiences that promote economic, ecological and social vitality and connecting people to the land and one another" per the USDA US Forest Service publication FS-1124a.

Imposing user fees/increased user fees is contrary to the Forest Service published statements given that fewer people would have an economical opportunity to be connected to the land and to be able to connect with one-another in the peace and serenity the forest offers.

I am an avid patron of the Stanislaus National forest as a member of the off-road vehicle community - the organization I am associated with (North American XJ Association) volunteers to help keep the forest beautiful and promotes responsible off-road recreation to all of our members who enjoy the open lands. We hold annual events at various sites throughout the sierras, including Hermit Valley and Sourgrass, amongst others. These events help us raise funds for which we donate back to the forest lands and off-road community, having raised over $6,200 in August, 2021 at our event at Hermit Valley campground. If there are user fees implemented at this site and others - we will need to search for an alternate low to no cost site so we can continue our work and goals to continue raising money to be donated back to the forest and off-road community, not having the economical option of Hermit Valley would hamper our efforts and significantly reduce turnout to our events.

Thank you for your time reading my comments - I encourage the Citizens Advisory Committee to recommend AGAINST implementing any user fees at current fee-free/no-fee sites and against raising fees at existing paid sites.

Best Regards,

Michael....

Affiliation with NAXJA - naxja.org
[email protected]
 
It’s tough, because the forest is still free to use, and why should the users of upgraded facilities not pay for things like restroom clean outs, fire rings, tables, things like that. And daily fees may cut down on people coming up early and dominating a campground so others can’t find a spot - I do t know if that is an issue in these places.

Dispersed camping in the forest = free. Premium experience in a campground = pay a premium.

But, we as a society have decided to pool our resources (taxes) to provide a social benefit to all who wish to partake already, so why should it not be provided to any who wish to visit?
 
I hear you Phil and agree on the points you mention. However it's not just camping areas that are under consideration for new fees or fee increases but some day use areas as well.

We have until Nov 30th to give feedback. Below is what I sent in...

I oppose any public fee increases within the SNF, especially at the nine recreation sites that currently are free.

The end result of any new or increased fees is effectively barring many people from access to nature. Nature shouldn't exist only for the wealthy, yet the proposed new and increased fees are another step in doing just that.

As a manager of the forest you would agree that access to nature is a human right. Please recognize how unequal that access is becoming by the proposed fee increases.

I challenge you to come up with solutions that fit within your current and projected budgets and not by simply raising the price for access to nature. People yearn for nature and the beauty of the forest. Do not deny these most important aspects of quality of life by requiring us to pay for it.
 
Yeah I can see some benefits of having fees like people not parking at hermit for a week, and I was thinking maybe 20$ will keep out the scum bags, but then I started thinking next it will be 25$, then 30$, then 50$, pretty soon there will be flatlanders fully reserving/booking hermit online 12 months ahead of Sierrafest for their yuppy van lifer stuff. And to me that is unacceptable.

We really should think about taking the NAXJA funds to use a down payment buy some property somewhere and we can all chip in to pay the mortgage.
 
Its a slippery slope. Next itll be slickrock and deer valley, then years later itll be you need a permit to run the trails.
 
Yeah, the NFS is getting hit from all sides...overall increased use, increased spending to deal with the more intense wild land fires, decreased funding from Congress (from both sides of the aisle), etc. It's just a shame that FREE areas are going away. I can understand fee increases for current pay sites, but some of those increases are 50% !

And it's not just California but nationwide...read a recent article that Colorado was considering shutting down one of its NF campgrounds due to lack of staff. The county stepped in and diverted some of the local tax dollars to pay for staff.
 
blondejoncherokee said:
... I was thinking maybe 20$ will keep out the scum bags, but then I started thinking next it will be 25$, then 30$, then 50$, pretty soon there will be flatlanders fully reserving/booking hermit online 12 months ahead of Sierrafest...
Click to expand...

Totally a valid thought that opening the door for standard 'inflationary adjustments' or even voter approved tiered increases like the 2018 regional measure 3 in the bay area which has bridge tolls going up another $1 Jan 1st, 2022 to $7, next increase is Jan 1st, 2025 to $8.

I hate to say.. I'm sure at some point in time a fee will happen at Hermit and other more established free camps and at that time we'll need to figure an alternate to keep our event costs down.. for transparency from the finance side for all who are unaware: We price our event registration fees to cover the cost of the event. Any money we donate to land use/project money comes from ticket sakes from the donated raffle prizes and additional shirt sales. The National BOD can approve some funds to match our chapter raised money to put towards land use donation/project money based on what other chapters apply for from their projects and is not guaranteed every year.

Back to Hermit, lets say 3 nights at x$20/night per rig x30 rigs = $1,800! That's roughly 3x the cost for the 4 nights at Davis Creek for Renofest and Davis Creek has flush toilets (not pit like Hermit), running water in camp, dumpster for garbage in camp, and coin showers in camp vs. needing to drive to Lake Alpine at Hermit to get the coin showers, so you get a lot more for less at Davis creek.

A $5/night self-service registration would be one thing but still opens that slippery slope to $10 in a couple years, then $15, then reservations online a year in advance, etc. ultimately pricing and blocking people out of it.. Even the $30 annual pass noted in the article x30 rigs is $900 and still roughly 1.5x Davis Creek cost.

Sorry for the rant! Back to work now.. :paperwork
 
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