please critique this estimate from a local 4x4 shop

PGT FTW said:
update...got a quote faxed from another local shop and had a chat with the owner. he's cheaper, but not by a lot. $650 for the diff service. $280 on the water pump. $145 on the valve cover gasket and $250 on the oil pan.

He did mention the diff has to be lifted to do the oil pan, so, it seems like having them do the diff svc and the oil pan (if needed) is prudent, then I'll do the rest.

Diff lifted?? that makes no since... The whole axle needs to hang / droop when on jack stands or lifted in the air. Thats so that there is enough cleareance to get the pan out. With a lifted vehicle its easier, but @ stock height it needs to hang.
 
anybody got a pic handy to explain?? From my quick peak under the Jeep, it seems like the pan is lower than the diff, but I'm probably wrong.
 
PGT FTW said:
anybody got a pic handy to explain?? From my quick peak under the Jeep, it seems like the pan is lower than the diff, but I'm probably wrong.

I can go outside and get one, but its pretty obvious. The front part of the oil pan is up higher.. then it goes to the back sump where most of the oil collects and is picked up by the oil pump screen. The lower section will be about the same height as the axle tube IIRC. The lower section has the bolt that allows you to drain your oil.

There are clearence problems with getting the pan off. Thats why i explained the axle drooping thing in my previous post. Basically while its hanging, the pan has tons more room to drop down and out towards the rear. You have to twist it at an angle but it does come out that way.
 
PGT FTW said:
FordGuy would have us believe this quote is fair, ie he'd be happy letting a friend or family member pay what the shop is asking for.

looks like I'll tackle the majority myself. I'm going to call a local Jeep dealer just for shits and giggles to check the price on the front diff rebuild. I'll go by another local 4x4 shop next week....I've called them twice and emailed them, but no reply. Some places aren't the best about anything less than showing up.

I never once said it was fair and would not make the ridiculous statements like a lot have on this subject, like 90% repair shops rip people off, I would get out the Chilton Manuel and look, then make a statement that was factual.
 
This can go in circles for days.......not every, or possibly any answer is correct.....

But I do have 1 question?

How did all of those things all go wrong at the same time? That is what sounds like a ripoff but the mechanic hasn't even looked at the truck yet? Are you just changing parts to change parts?
 
let's recap - I took the truck to the shop for a look to let me know what needs work (they took it for a spin, put it on the lift, pulled wheels off, etc). I just bought it in January. Everything listed needs to be done, sooner or later.
 
PGT FTW said:
I picked up an '01 XJ and had it looked at. I've already replace the front wheel bearings, rotors and pads. Some of this work can do myself (rear brakes and valve cover for example). The labor looks to be a flat rate....no idea of the hourly they're charging (though it looks to be fair at roughly $80/hr).

2001XJ.png


Please comment on which items are DIY for a guy who's done turbo rebuilds, headers, etc....above average for a shadetree. Also...how fair the prices are....seem high to me, but that's par for the course in this inflated area.
its all stuff you can do at home for 1/3 the price. I dont think it is inflated to badly but I also can't see paying some one else to do what you can unless you have more money than time
 
Gerr said:
its all stuff you can do at home for 1/3 the price. I dont think it is inflated to badly but I also can't see paying some one else to do what you can unless you have more money than time

That is the correct response. :D

As for me, I am poor, so I do my own work. If I was wealthy, I would pay someone to do it for me. And that is all there is to it.
 
PGT FTW said:
let's recap -

Let's not and say we did.
Every response has been covered adnausium. There is no place for this thread to go.

Just pic one of your 5 choices and get it over with.

You choices are:
* Accept the estimate.
* Refuse the estimate and try another shop.
* Do ALL the work yourself.
* Do Some of the work yourself, and oursouce what you feel you can't handle.
* Sell the vehicle to someone who will just take care of it instead of talking it to death.

No, No :nono:

Don't tell us which one.
Don't justify it to us.

Just go do it already.
 
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Interesting thread. I'll use the estimate to impress the wife of my worth... ;)

Seriously though, having been in the biz, and having had family in the biz, I thought I'd throw out some thoughts on honesty. There are definite cases at the endpoints, but the middle is fuzzy. So, consider the following:

You have a missing oil pan bolt. It is leaking a little bit of oil, but nothing that you have to even top off - you just notice some drips in the drive over a few months and take it in. You don't know what is wrong. You go to your local mechanic and here is the range of possibilities. They all probably happened to someone today, but they serve to illustrate the point without getting into technical discussions. In the following the car is taken 'round back, and the mechanic meets you after looking it over:

1- the mechanic (he from now on) explains the missing bolt, asks if previous work was done, says it isn't serious, but can replace the bolt if it's making a mess.

2- he replaces the bolt with a convenient one that works and passes the 'savings' on. (not the same as the chrome stud scenario talked about earlier)

3- he 'orders' a bolt, tacking on usual part markup, etc.

4- he tells you this one fell out, so all others need to be removed and inspected (more cost)

5- he tells you this one fell out, so all others need to be replaced

6- add to the above the pan needs to be removed and gaskets replaced

7- he tells you the pan and its bolts need to be replaced

8- 4, 5, 6 or 7 plus he cracks the gasket a bit to make it worse in case you want to go home and 'think about it'

9- he explains that the pan gasket leaks, and when that happens, several other gaskets need to be replaced too (not actually leaking in this case though) - maybe seals too

10- explains it's an oil pump leak (or similar) and will involve tearing down part of the engine

It can on from there, but I think we've defintiely crossed the line already. ;)

A dealer will never do 1 or 2. 3 is pretty common, although if it's a good shop, 1 or 2 will happen. 4, 5, 6 play to FUD, and I've seen guys try to scare women that way saying it may not be safe, etc, when it's really overkill. A lot do that these days. 7+ are out of line.

Remember too, that this is a non-critical part that could be fixed with as little a $5 up to many hundreds of $ in the later cases.

There's also another dimension. While 1-3 only tackle the missing bolt, and 4 makes a big inspection deal of it, 1-3 can also be accompanied by the mechanic giving each of the other bolts a little tug with the wrench (not enough to break the seal) to verify another isn't going to come loose. A few minutes more, but it helps the customer and his reputation in the long run. That's not an honesty issue, but more of a 'professional' issue. Something the 18 yr old or lazy guy won't do. Even if it's $10 for the extra time instead of $5, it's a higher level of integrity.

-Skip
 
Let's go back to the beginning;
PGT FTW said:
I picked up an '01 XJ and had it looked at. I've already replaced the front wheel bearings, rotors and pads. Some of this work can do myself (rear brakes and valve cover for example).
Please comment on which items are DIY for a guy who's done turbo rebuilds, headers, etc....above average for a shadetree.
I was also a newbe with my first Cherokee just a couple of years ago.
The second Chreokee we bought (WARNING, WARNING !! IT'S CATCHING!!) The previous owner of second one did everything that was sugested by the garage at listed prices, $5000+ over the years. He was moving to the right coast and sold it to us for only $700- partly because the front axle needed rebuilding (bad wheel bearing). For the price I figured I could replace the whole axle from the "pull your part" yard and be ahead.

PGT FTW has the skills to do all the work himself.

Some things I've learned from NAXJA members and plenty of personal opinions;
I'll go through the estimate with some of what I have learned here;
Replacing gaskets. Most Cherokees drip some oil and it may be hard to track down. Since the leak isn't bad I'd clean the engine and see what happens.
Front axle work, no personal experience.
Front brakes, why? Weren't they just done?
Rear brakes. Pull drums and clean with brake cleaner, look for leaks and lube what needs lubed.
Brake System Flush. Get a hand vaccuum bleeder and do it your self, I change out the fluid on any "new" vehicle I buy.
Water pump. Is it leaking?
Cooling system flush. Do it yourself, no extra additives needed.
Power steering flush. Is it leaking?
Auto trans flush. Ditto . . .
I bet the last three are on all "new" customers invoices to see who "bites".

Just my opinions.
Get to know your new Jeep, take care of the front axle (get a second opinion, how much is a rebuild from a 4x4 shop?).
Search the NAXJA forums for help.

Mike
 
This whole list is bogus.

I just rebuilt the top end on my 4.0 and the gasket kit was $60. It included every new gasket and seal to pull the entire head rebuild it and put it back on.

From what I have read the D30 is pretty straight forward also, because it uses shims to set all of the preloads. You would just need someone to press the bearing to the pinoin and carrier. A master overhaul kit runs about $120 at Randy's ring and pinoin and comes with everything you need to install it, even the installation manual.

That shop is just looking for a pay day.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Let's not and say we did.
Every response has been covered adnausium. There is no place for this thread to go.

Just pic one of your 5 choices and get it over with.

You choices are:
* Accept the estimate.
* Refuse the estimate and try another shop.
* Do ALL the work yourself.
* Do Some of the work yourself, and oursouce what you feel you can't handle.
* Sell the vehicle to someone who will just take care of it instead of talking it to death.

No, No :nono:

Don't tell us which one.
Don't justify it to us.

Just go do it already.

wow....I thought it would take longer for someone to be a dick to me on NAXJA. The post above me was confused - I tried to give him the Cliff's on it. Don't like it....don't waste your time posting in my thread please. :bawl:

I got a second estimate - note - these are both from 4x4 shops. It's better, but not by an order of magnitude. I've got a buddy at a shop that specializes in transmission rebuilds - more specifically, dogboxes and straight cut gears for high HP turbo cars with AWD.......they're giving me a no-BS quote on the diff work...it's their bread and butter.

the reason this thread is still going is because there is valuable feedback - I've gotten a few PM's in the last 24 hours that are encouraging.

I do work for a living and am part owner of the company (meaning no such thing as 9-5) I also have a six month old infant at home...time is tight. Unless there's a pressing need to do the work right now, it's going to wait until I have the time...no need to tell me 'just go do it'....it will happen on my schedule, not yours.

oh....it's ad nauseum by the way - learn to use the proper term and grammar ('your', not 'you') when you insult me. please. :roflmao:
 
why do you keep going to 4x4 shops to get quotes? a stock xj is a 4wd station wagon. 4x4 shops are usually more expensive because they are concidered a specialty shop. for the repairs needed on yours, most local garages can do all the work you have listed. i know the shop i take my cars to can certainly do all that work.
 
why? the first one I know the guy...he used to work for me and worked on previous vehicles. the second? It's a general shop, focusing on performance and some 4x4 stuff. Yeah, I could hit Midas/Merchants etc but those guys are normally questionable. I need to find a small independent shop that works on any make.
 
PGT FTW said:
I need to find a small independent shop that works on any make.

thats what im talking about, im not talking about midas and other chain stores but a privately owned garage.

ive been lucky and have found a few garages in my area that i trust.

i also like to stay as local as i possibly can so the owner/mechainic knows that i live close by and that we are neighbors.
 
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