FordGuy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Clemente, CA
Next time ask questions, There is nothing wrong with looking at the old Mitchell time book with your advisor. Its your money, and if asking questions offends them, go somewhere else.PGT FTW said:
please critique this estimate from a local 4x4 shop
- Thread starter PGT FTW
- Start date
scorpio_vette said:
Because 30 years experience turning bolts and filling fluids is VERY different from actually having to know what you are doing to get the job done, and done RIGHT. There is a difference!
If a doctor screws up, he is dealing with someone's LIFE.
50k in tools? ...and how many of them 50k worth of tools are actually needed to work on an XJ?
XJR
FordGuy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Clemente, CA
My Diesel tech has 100K in tools, you know how many tools are needed for each job, but in the real world you need a tool that you might use twice a year, He buys it, you borrow it. Hey I work on my own stuff and do it well, but there is a huge difference in me doing a repair for fun compared to making a living at it. Some of the best Techs I know do unbelievable work at there pace in their garage, put them in front of a customer or in a shop where they need to make 10 hours to pay their bills, It would be a Joke!
FordGuy said:
I have no problem with those who know what they are doing.
Problem is that 80% of the automotive industry is hinged on taking advantage of people because they don't know better.
No other profession is there so many people trying to take advantage.
Turning bolts is easy, that is WHY there are so many people out there in the field.
I agree, people need to take the time to get to know the tech, but at the same time, they would not have to if the tech's were more honest.
The mighty $ will make people say or do anything to take advantage of fellow humans.
The problem is far more deep then I care to go into right now, but the fact of the matter is, the automotive field is corrupt and its up to you to find an honest Tech.
FordGuy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Clemente, CA
I respect what you are saying, but to make a comment that 80% are thieves, show me where you researched that number. I have done this my whole life and can speak from experience, maybe 5-10% would be more like a accurate number. And as far as your comment about all these techs in the field, it is one of the hardest jobs to fill. Diesel Techs for example, There is a huge shortage, why? they make 125k year, easy no one can do it good enough to make a living at it.
- Location
- on the beach in Ocean View, VA
I tend to agree that most of the work isn't worth paying for (assuming you are able to do it yourself), but I understand the cost of convenience too. The real question seems to be with the parts markup and I must admit it seems kinda high.
I would look for another shop if you were/are unhappy with the answers you were getting concerning your questions. If they are not willing to satisfy your curiosity now (when they're still trying to get your money), how much concern do you think they will show later (after you've already paid them)?
I've got a ton of responses for others that posted, but as they won't answer the original question, I'll save them for another time-- nicest thing I've done all day!
I would look for another shop if you were/are unhappy with the answers you were getting concerning your questions. If they are not willing to satisfy your curiosity now (when they're still trying to get your money), how much concern do you think they will show later (after you've already paid them)?
I've got a ton of responses for others that posted, but as they won't answer the original question, I'll save them for another time-- nicest thing I've done all day!
- Location
- Columbus, In
Wow is that a joke seriously who in their right mind would charge that much for 2 gaskets
FordGuy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Clemente, CA
Independents who buy from auto parts stores obviously mark-up from there cost, If there cost is at bad discount then its passed on to the consumer, that is why a lot of times a Dealers list is 10-15% lower than a independents selling OEM parts. If you really want to see a rip off, have a plumber price out a 3/4 PVC elbow he paid .26 cents for at home depot, $5.00 !!
BillBraski
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Appleton, Wi
Honestly, you think that the auto repair industry is only 5%-10% dishonest? Like many people here, I am in the business and will be very frank, if someone is dumb enough to make the mistake to walk into a overpriced shop, thats their fault. Why do you think dealerships do good buisness? Becuase people assume "They know my car best", and warranties obviously. But, most dealerships around here have 90.00-110.00 per/hour mechanic labor. Where I work its $79.00 for mechanical and 105.00 for the body shop and I would bet we screw over way less people than a dealership. Our computer (like juat about every repair shop) looks for parts from the supplier, Federated in my case, then automatically marks them up quite a bit, and the fact that every procedure is referenced for time/labor, the customer is most always in the drivers seat. But, a 100.00 valve cover gasket is kinda pathetic, considering a set of perma-dry felpros for a big block chevy at my shop only cost 70.00 to install, and thats 2 gaskets. If people LET themselves get screwed over for being so ignorant, thats their fault.
FordGuy would have us believe this quote is fair, ie he'd be happy letting a friend or family member pay what the shop is asking for.
looks like I'll tackle the majority myself. I'm going to call a local Jeep dealer just for shits and giggles to check the price on the front diff rebuild. I'll go by another local 4x4 shop next week....I've called them twice and emailed them, but no reply. Some places aren't the best about anything less than showing up.
looks like I'll tackle the majority myself. I'm going to call a local Jeep dealer just for shits and giggles to check the price on the front diff rebuild. I'll go by another local 4x4 shop next week....I've called them twice and emailed them, but no reply. Some places aren't the best about anything less than showing up.
PGT FTW said:
I hear ya man!
It gets old fast.
HONEST, RESPECTFUL people are hard to find. Thats just the way it is.
The truth of the matter is you DONOT have to be dishonest to make a living.
It is the job of the tech to inform the PEOPLE on what is going on. THAT IS WHY THEY CAME TO THEM!
The guy that said if the people are that stupid they should get hosed.... Wow man...You are exactly what I am talking about.
Does your Mother know what the tolerances are on her brake rotors?!
Knowing someone has no clue about what you are talking about leaves too much room to take advantage.
Kills me to not be able to do the work on my Mothers XJ because I am 1000 miles away. Instead I tried to trust a friend to help her out and he took her for a ride. Nice friend right?
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scorpio_vette
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Milwaukee Wisconsin
XJRubicon said:
"that is why there so many people in this field"???
if turning bolts is all there was, then everybody could do it. problem is that with todays cars, it's NOT about turning bolts. it's about diagnosing problems. if it was about turning bolts, and not diagnosing, then
why are there 3 posts a day on here about no start conditions???
why are there 3 posts a day on here about rough running conditions???
why are there 3 posts a day on here about steering vibrations???
why are there 3 posts a day on here about brakes not working???
why, why, why, why, why????
or how often do you see people on the side of the road waiting to WILLINGLY pay for AAA or tow trucks because they can't even swap on their own spare???
or what about the lady that came in to my shop a few weeks ago because she actually managed to install her spare on backwards and destroyed the caliper. BUT NEVER thought to pull over and figure out why it was making such a loud smashing grinding noise???
or what about the guy that wanted a free brake inspection that i was offering just for me to discover that he CALIPER PISTON was litterally 1/2way THROUGH the rotor (i can provide pics if anybody wants prove). he had went so long without taking care of his car that the pad was already completely gone and he was grinding the piston through the rotor.
Personally i make it a point to SHOW customers what is wrong on their vehicle. WHAT i'm replacing. WHY i'm replacing it. and why it's so important to do proper mainenance and service on their vehicles. and i show them that rotor and explain to them that if they don't get a brake service done when it should, that it'll go from a $45 brake cleaning to a $300 brake job with new calipers or whatever they happened to destroy.
saying that 80% of mechanics are crooks is just wrong. and having been a mechanic and now a shop OWNER, it's generally not in the mechanics hands as to what you get charged. that's in the hands of the owner or service writer. the mechanic only does what he is told to do.
if you've had nothing but bad experience with mechanics and apparently find it right to throw them all in the same pot, then i feel bad for you. i try to do whatever i can to please my customer and give them reasonable prices. but business is business, and bills have to be paid. so far i have a good reputation. from local customers, and from 4x4 customer on numerous local forums.
all i can say is that hopefully you find a shop that will make you change your mind. and no matter what happens remember this. YOU AND ONLY YOU are responsible for doing your own homework. if you don't question the shop, or shop around for prices and reputation, then you CAN NOT blame anybody else if you end up getting screwed or think you are getting screwed.
:laugh::laugh: this is funny to me as just a few days ago, I passed a lady in a VW driving down the road with her car making awful noises. She was going slow, with flashers on, but in the normal flow of traffic (middle lane no less). As I passed her, I looked over and her RF wheel was canted over at 45 degrees.scorpio_vette said:
I motioned to her, but she waved as if 'ya, I know!'. :explosion
funniest thing was, we passed a local MD cop running a speedtrap...he could care less. That wheel could have come off any time and caused a bad accident. I still have no idea where in the hell she was going, but she didn't get far.
scorpio_vette said:
You chose not to see my real point entirely.
I Have no problem with you and you think I do.
...you act like I am calling YOU out.
Grow up and accept that not EVERY Mechanic is going to take care of people as you have. You deserve praise, they do not.
You're post is that of a wounded boy.
Go back and re read before you hurt yourself.
Where do you go to find out what is making you sick? The Doctor.
Where do you go to find out what is wrong with your car? The Mechanic!
I am done with this stupidity.
XJR
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strandediniowa
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Iowa
Well- this one Honestly pissed me off...XJRubicon said:
You are right- turning bolts is easy...that assumption is why I am stuck at around 40K a year...turning the right bolt, nut, screw, or torx head might be more of a challenge..and finding the broken wire in a 152 wire harness...priceless...and I am an honest tech- that is why I am losing my shirt...have fun finding someone to fix your car when I quit in a few years...which is coming...we'll put Evan...the tech school 18 year old newbie on your car...good luck:flame:
strandediniowa said:
You are stuck at 40k because of your choices, not because honest people can't make a living.
People such as yourself that have the ability to find a short in a 152 wire harness should be praised. People who treat others with respect and honor.
Word of mouth is very powerful. Problem is, the good guys don't get praise and the crooks just keep on growing in numbers.
I ran my own shop till I moved here. Not a single person got lied to or ripped off. Thats why I still have people get ahold of me begging me to come back. There is just no demand up there for the specialized kind of work that I have gotten into.
If your telling me that you have to be crooked to be a mechanic and make living, that proves to me you are in the wrong line of work.
Also, no one will EVER lay a finger on my rides.
McQue
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainville, Connecticut
BillBraski said:
Sounds to me like you think its o.k. if someone without automobile mechanical knowledge walks into your shop, it's ok with you to screw them. Right?
Person walks in...doesn't know shit about cars, needs help...they are ignorant...thats their fault ...so you screw them...because they LET themselves get screwed...Right?
SO who are you Bill Braski...a good guy...or a bad guy?
l
the reason I know how to rebuild a turbo is because the dealer sabotaged mine. they took an airhammer to the bolts on the downpipe, mushrooming the studs. took about six hours and countless saw blades to cut them off, then had to pull the hot side off and fix everything. that's the last time I brought my car to a dealer. Even the factory rep I discussed it with was shaking his head....he finally believed me when I told him how dishonest they were. (he had approved replacing my clutch despite the power mods...I had put it all back to stock, per his request, but the dealer decided they'd ensure I'd not swap anything out....as if they had some right to do that)
in short....I distrust all dealers and most shops. I have found a few places I do trust to work on things, but 80% of the places I've dealt with aren't out to do the right thing. The reason I've learned to do things myself are because of shops charging an arm and a leg and then f'ing it up. One shop crossthreaded a lug on my car and replaced it with a chrome one (the others were black). I asked them to get a matching one...they said 'no'. I asked the owner 'I just spent $1300 on brakes with you and you're going to walk me out the door over a $3 lugnut?" He replied 'yep'. :diaf:
my time is limited these days....I'm married, have a six month old and am part owner of a global consulting business. My phone rings from 5am until midnight....some things I don't mind doing myself, but if there's potential for a minor job turning into a major time waster (like wheel bearings), I pay someone. Otherwise, I generally do everything myself.
in short....I distrust all dealers and most shops. I have found a few places I do trust to work on things, but 80% of the places I've dealt with aren't out to do the right thing. The reason I've learned to do things myself are because of shops charging an arm and a leg and then f'ing it up. One shop crossthreaded a lug on my car and replaced it with a chrome one (the others were black). I asked them to get a matching one...they said 'no'. I asked the owner 'I just spent $1300 on brakes with you and you're going to walk me out the door over a $3 lugnut?" He replied 'yep'. :diaf:
my time is limited these days....I'm married, have a six month old and am part owner of a global consulting business. My phone rings from 5am until midnight....some things I don't mind doing myself, but if there's potential for a minor job turning into a major time waster (like wheel bearings), I pay someone. Otherwise, I generally do everything myself.
update...got a quote faxed from another local shop and had a chat with the owner. he's cheaper, but not by a lot. $650 for the diff service. $280 on the water pump. $145 on the valve cover gasket and $250 on the oil pan.
He did mention the diff has to be lifted to do the oil pan, so, it seems like having them do the diff svc and the oil pan (if needed) is prudent, then I'll do the rest.
He did mention the diff has to be lifted to do the oil pan, so, it seems like having them do the diff svc and the oil pan (if needed) is prudent, then I'll do the rest.