please critique this estimate from a local 4x4 shop

is the oil pan as easy as pulling the drain plug, pulling the filter, removing the pan, putting a new gasket on, reinstalling everything and filling the system?
 
I am a shop foreman at a shop in Iowa...the things that jumped right out at me were: The flush prices, all those flushes needed, oh my!!!, and synthetic in an AW4 seems damn risky....
When I dug further, the labor on the water pump seems a bit iffy, as well...I popped over to alldata... and they call for 1.7 hours on the water pump...which at $80.00 per hour would be $136.00....
There is a lot of profit in flushes, so many shops are pushing them...and their price seems a bit high....
Get a second opinion on what is needed...and a second bid on prices...
As far as retail through the shop prices on the parts compared to just picking the part up at the parts house...don't imagine that shops don't have to make a profit on the parts...so they have to mark them up...if they don't, they go out of business...
 
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Has anyone noticed the prices of just the chemicals?
Yeah, the parts are grossly inflated 300% or so.
Now I did see replacing the valve gasket and oil pan gasket, but not replacing oil?
Cooling system flush and water pump, but no check on hoses, belts???
Brakes, insanely priced.
Pinions/diffs, um yeah right.
Power steering flush and service, come on now!
Trans flush with universal synthetic. Isn't there a certain type of trans fluid that goes in our XJ's?
I would question all parts prices, labor (especially brakes) and why your diffs and power steering even needs messed with.

My .02
 
diff needs work....see comments about noise and leak. that's the main reason I took it there, and severe axle bind in 4Hi around a parking lot (told it's normal for an XJ....it wasn't that way on my '02 TJ).
 
PGT FTW said:
The front diff service is about $700...that's where my noise is coming from. If they would do that, the oil pan, water pump and valve cover for $1k (BG stuff extra), I'd take it there tomorrow. That to me is a fair price, not the $1650 they are asking for.
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$700 for "front diff service" is a crock. I am having new gears and master overhaul kits installed in both diffs next week for about $250 per axle in labor charges. Master overhaul kits only run about $85 each. You need to find another shop!!!
 
working on it. the one I called today is on 'Pinks' tonight, so they headed to a local bar to watch it. I'll get a quote from them tomorrow morning to compare.
 
scorpio_vette said:
it doesn't matter if your vehicle is so modified that you could do all of those jobs without even opening your toolbox. when you drive into the service drive and ask them to fix your car, they look up the job in the computer. click the checkbox next to it, and it adds BOOK TIME.


so if the booktime on the valve cover is (just for example) 4hours. and it takes the mechanic 1hour, you will still pay for 4hours.

on the flip side........

mechanics get PAID book time. so if a job pays 1hour, and it takes the mechanic 4hours (which can happen with some jobs that it physically takes longer than booktime. specially with old rustbuckets), then he still only gets paid 1hour.

i've seen a mechanic at a dealership get paid 1/2hour for 2 days of work..............he was chasing an intermittent electrical problem. so if he was getting $24 an hour, that means he only got paid $12 for 2 days of work.


automotive business is a rough business (just like many other service businesses). the mechanics are bitching because they get screwed on work, and the customers are bitching about the repair costs.

as i said earlier. if you don't want to pay those prices, then people need to do their own work. if you don't want to pay for the repair work, then how are the mechanics supposed to get paid to fix your cars??? a business isn't just trying to make enough profit to pay rent. they also have to pay the mechanics. and for alot of the tools (and we're not talking $50. try more like $1,000 $2,000 $3,000 $5,000 $7,000+ for one single tool).

oh and what about warranty??? you want that too don't you??? so you have your buddy fix your car for a case of beer. but if something goes wrong because either he screwed up, or the part was defective then you have to pay again.

but if the shop fixes it, and they screw up the work, then the shop has to pay for the mechanics mistakes and fix your car. and if the part is defective, then we have to fix it again. so suddenly that 4hour job now was twice as long because of a stupid defective part.



overall, there is alot more to automotive repair facilities than people think. there are alot of things that cost money being used that people don't realized.
and the prices also kind of depend on location and business size.

a smaller business in a non-competetive place might have higher prices because they don't have competition. that same place in a location with 20 other shops will have lower prices to be able to compete.

and a smaller or newer shop will also have to make sure they cover their expenses and make enough profit to continue business where a shop that's been there for 20 years and is the size of walmart, has alot more business and more income that they can lower the prices enough to run the little guys out.



sorry if i'm coming across as rude. this isn't so much directed at the original poster, as it is at some of the people that are continuously beating down auto repair shops. having been one of the people that used to complain about shop prices, and now own my own shop i see both sides. which is why i try my best to help people keep the cost down, but at the same time. if i don't pay my bills and expenses, then i won't be around to continue providing quality work.
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Someone who understands! Why is it ok to pay a plumber 95.00 hour to snake a drain but not ok to pay a Tech who may have $50,000 in tools and 30 years experience.
 
what does that have to do with getting f'ed on the cost of the parts? I understand book rates....as said in post #1, the prices in the quote were fixed price (meaning book rate). If I'm doing wheel bearings, there's no reason to charge book rate to R&R the front brakes. Sure, charge half maybe, but the quote was done as a multitude of standalone jobs, not a comprehensive job to get the XJ where it (might) need to be.
 
PGT FTW said:
what does that have to do with getting f'ed on the cost of the parts? I understand book rates....as said in post #1, the prices in the quote were fixed price (meaning book rate). If I'm doing wheel bearings, there's no reason to charge book rate to R&R the front brakes. Sure, charge half maybe, but the quote was done as a multitude of standalone jobs, not a comprehensive job to get the XJ where it (might) need to be.
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R&R rotors would be part of a wheel bearing replacement. Book times have thousands of combination times. Do you not remove the rotors to do a bearing replacement?
 
right. exactly. as said, the quote is standalone....doesn't take combination time into effect. I've asked for consideration on the work still to be done but they are busy enough not to care.

That's what people aren't getting...this area is the issue. I can call 20 contractors, three will call me back, two will come to do estimates, one will actually send me a quote. out of 20 phone calls made. example 1: I asked for a quote on a second level deck....20'x21'. $20k was the cheapest quote I got, with a six month waitlist and 25% non-refundable deposit being the norm. We ended up building it ourselves for $3k and weekends over that six months. example 2: wind blew siding off my house in January. called four shops. one came right out next day...$6500. one took a week to come out and no quote was ever submitted. called my insurance carrier back....referred me to a small contractor they'd used before when others were price gouging.....$3600 and done in two days work by some nice Vietnamese guys who were quick, efficient and professional.
:peace:
 
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Rocketman said:
I think the prices are in line for the BG machine flushes. Cheaper actually. BG's machines are EXCELLENT and in my opinion the best!

The labor rate is great considering the Chicago suburbs are averaging $110 an hour.
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I used to run a shop with BG products/services... Top notch stuff... but can be a bit pricey, that said tho... I have fully BG'd my 91 now too.

Bear in mind, and this coming from myself as a shop owner, by all means go ahead and do what you can do yourself, but when you are talking about flushes with a machine, especially a machine that costs what these do... there is no comparison.
 
PGT FTW said:
Sure, charge half maybe, but the quote was done as a multitude of standalone jobs, not a comprehensive job to get the XJ where it (might) need to be.
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it doesn't work that way.

lets say booktime for replacing the front hubs is 3hours. that 3hours includes removing the brakes. because that's part of the job required to remove the hub.


the reason they are not required to "combine" the jobs. is because removing the valve cover does NOT make it any less work to remove the oil pan. and removing the oil pan does NOT make it any less work to remove the valve cover.

working on the front diff does NOT make doing the rear wheel cylinders any easier, etc..etc..etc..

so why should they combine those prices.


no for example i quoted a customer the other day to replace his front ball joints. he also asked if i could replace the axle u-joints. well since i have to pull the axle to replace the ball joints, i only charged him 1/2 for the u-joints. BECAUSE they were overlapping jobs.

so even if you have the entire vehicle practically rebuild, but none of the jobs overlap or affect each other, then they are all seperate jobs.
 
do you really take me for an idiot? where did I say a valve cover job should be discounted because I'm replacing the radio.

if I'm getting front wheel bearings done and the brakes at the same time, they should be charging me a combined cost since there's overlap. nobody is saying anything different. Besides....their standalone rates are heavily padded, as are the parts.
 
This is WHY I HATE shops.

...Glad I have my own.


My Mother in MN needed a Radiator.

Can someone PLEASE explain why it was $550? Did she pay for excellent service? Hell no.

A reputable company that has been in biz for a VERY long time and they can't even install the fan shroud correctly? All of the tranny cooler lines were loose with nothing attaching them to the truck but the connections that started to leak within a week. Also they never plugged in the cooling fan!!! I pop the cap, RUST WATER IN A NEW RADIATOR!!!! THEY NEVER ADDED COOLANT!

You don't always get what you payed for.

Price does not dictate quality.

Experience does not prove knowledge.


XJR
 
sorry i'm confused. i didn't see both front hubs and brakes on that estimate. i only saw front brake service. now i'm a little confused on your argument.


either way. i still don't understand why you are so upset about the shop rates. if you can do most of the work yourself, then go ahead and do it and save all the money. and anything you have to take in, shop around for some prices and then take it in.


like fordguy said. people are willing to pay for other services, but seem to get all upset to pay a mechanic who has over 50,000 in tools.


i have a question???? why is it wrong to pay a mechanic a few hundred for repair work, but it's ok to pay a doctor a couple grand to lay in an MRI machine for 2minutes???
 
You must have missed where I paid a shop to do the wheel bearings. I'm not upset with paying labor. I'm upset at what appears to be an exorbitant estimate and by all accounts here, I'm warranted in feeling that way.
 
I really think that if some of the guys who hate repair facilities, put some effort into getting to know some of the great techs who work in Dealers and Independents, life would be a lot more positive. Yes some suck, Yes some Doctors suck, But there are some extremely talented Techs out there who deserve more respect than what we give. They are no different than us. I was a Tech for 12 years before I became a Fix op Director, And I take my hat off everyday to the guys who fix the vehicles we have today. How many of us really think we could make a living at Fixing new Vehicles? Most of us would be clueless let alone make flat rate.
 
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