Peugeot BA-10 "experts" needed........

[YELLAHEEP]

Ok, I have this super clean '87 and the guy sold it because he'd had a dealership replace the clutch parts, fly wheel and throwout bearing about 1000 miles prior. Then he developed a noise in the transmission to which the dealership said that he'd have to spend $1500 to have it rebuilt - of course, it's the BA-10 and no one in their right mind should spend that kind of money on rebuilding one of these.

Driving this '87, the shifts are solid, no grinding, generally feels very good. But there's a rotational noise - kind of a thumping/banging at slow RPM's that would almost disappear with higher RPM's / driving speeds. It's in all gears all the time and makes no noise when sitting parked idling in neutral or in gear with the clutch depressed - it's only when moving forward under power, clutch engaged. It sounds like it's ahead of the shifter near the bell housing and I can lightly feel it through the shifter. My thought is that the front input shaft bearing would be bad causing the noise.

Now, I snatched another BA-10 from a wrecked rig I parted out. I only drove it from the prev. owner's driveway onto my trailer so I don't know it's true condition, but it had been used as her kid's daily driver for a long time before he enlisted and shipped out. No complaints about the trans. operation from the prev. owner but I found the shifter to be pretty sloppy.

Having these two transmissions sitting side by side on the bench, the original one seems to be in overall better shape. Grabbing the input shaft at the splines and "wiggling" it around, the original trans is tighter - a lot less movement. The other trans has quite a bit more movement. I would have thought there'd be very little movement, but it doesn't seem there's much support for this shaft - must get it's support from the pilot bearing? (I inspected the pilot bearing as well, it was replaced with the clutch parts and is in good shape.)

When rotating input shafts, and a gear engaged, the original one makes less internal gear noise than the other trans. I'm now thinking that the other trans wouldn't be a good one to replace the original one with - I don't want to wrestle it into the XJ only to find it's in worse shape......

So, has anyone torn a BA-10 apart and serviced one of these? Any good links to exploded views? Maybe I just need to replace a bearing but I've never cracked a manual transmission before.

I've considered looking to swap in an AX-15, but they're kinda scarce around here and when you can find one, they're expensive. This isn't a keeper XJ, just a fix and flip - if I can cure this transmission issue.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[87xjco]

Not an expert but I've gone thru a few manual transmissions before

Troy that input bearing and the input shaft are turning even when your not moving and in neutral with the clutch released, so is the entire cluster shaft (counter shaft) that is permanently engaged with the input shaft. So if there's no noise under that condition, I wouldn't suspect the input bearing is bad. And I also would say the thrust and or needle bearings between the input shaft and the mainshaft are o/k.

The only qualification to that is that there is no load on the input bearing if the vehicle is not moving, and sometimes bearings are only noisey when they have a load on them.

Too bad because that's the easy bearing to replace.

If it only happens when moving, that means it's only happening when the output shaft (mainshaft) and whatever gear is engaged are turning.

If it happens in all gears that eliminates the teeth on any one gear being bad.
So that leaves the output bearing or wear on the output shaft itself.

The noise could easily be transfering forward

There's always the slight possibility of a transfer case problem too.

Hope that helps!

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Thanks Terry.

Yeah, it's definitely when under a load, but doesn't get louder with increased load - like hard accelleration, just under any forward movement. It's kinda like the old playing card in the bicycle spokes noise - speeds up as you move faster, slows as you slow down and stops when no movement, regardless if it's in neutral or clutch disengaged/in gear.

When I drained the fluid, I didn't notice any "sparkles" in it either - I was kinda expecting to see steel or brass specks in the fluid, but nothing - fluid was actually in decent shape.

The previous owner had the thing serviced at only two places. Pollard Jeep in Boulder and Grease Monkey - no where else. He showed me a folder about an inch thick of dealer receipts...... I figure he probably invested $4000 in dealer service/repairs during the time he owned it and he was the original owner. He even had ALL emissions related parts (sensors, switches, relays, vacuum parts, even all the plastic molded vac. lines) replaced including the cat converter "just because" about a year prior to my buying it.

So, this original transmission is most likely in better shape overall, just one component inside that's a little angry.

Any other ideas?

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Hmmmm......... I'm half-way tempted to attach my big electric drill to the input shaft and spin it on the bench to see if I can hear the sound that way....... dunno if the lack of load will affect it, but maybe it's worth a try? :dunno:

 

[tbburg]

No expert on BA-10 - threw mine away, but,...

My 87 had a clutch failure, along with clanging/thumping noise.(in sync with engine RPM.) tear-down revealed slave cylinder/throwout bearing loose, and hydraulic lines torn off of it.. Single screw that bolts it to the bellhousing backed out, allowing the whole thing to spin. Is your throwout assy. tight?

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Ok, I spun the input shafts of both transmissions using the drill. It worked perfectly!

I was able to re-create the thunking noise in the original transmission. Placing my hand on the gear box, I can feel something banging around in the box between the bellhousing and the shifter. Almost like something is out of round and making contact with the case - very rhythmic in fact.

Spinning the other transmission, the gear box has no thunking and makes just a little bit more rotational/gear noise. I'm thinking that's because it's sat around without gear oil in it for a month where the original trans was just drained yesterday. :dunno:

The difference between them: The original - solid input shaft. The other - better sounding/feeling gear box.

So...... I'm going to try to swap the input shafts and maybe make one good trans outta the two.

Wish me luck - I already removed the throwout bearing/slaves from both and the bellhousings. What I can't figure out so far is how to get the front cover plate off.......... :looney:

 

[Jonathan]

I tore mine down quite a while ago. I have additional pictures and possibly advice if you're interested.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

You bet! PM sent!

 

[Jonathan]

I'm continuing to post here rather than PM since other people might find it useful.

First, if you don't have a FSM I would recommend finding a copy of this book:
You might want to see if you can find a copy of one of these around, it should help a lot (although I did my transmission before I got it):
http://www.amazon.com/Chiltons-Wagoneer-Comanche-Cherokee-1984-1991/dp/0801981433/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1217260244&sr=11-1

It's Chilton's #8143, and far more detailed than other Chilton books I've seen. It's a little under two inches thick with newsprint pages.


As for removing the cover plate, it should be pretty easy (still have to pull or knock it off) once you've removed the threaded studs. That was the tough part. You can see in the above picture that I've got one double-nutted, but it really does require heat as well. Not a lot, just a quick hit with the propane torch (to the housing, not the stud). Don't overdo it, and if it's not coming off easily, something is wrong and it shouldn't be forced. Likewise, you don't have to jam the double nuts together very hard: if the stud and nuts are clean they should stay pretty easily. I think on one stud I used some low-grade locktite with the double nuts since it was really stuck. Once removed from the housing, you can use a bit of heat again to get the locktite off.


But before you really attack that end plate, my manual says to remove the other end first. That side will require removing a few bolts, pulling the fifth intermediate gear, and a snap ring.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Well the threaded studs must be the issue then. I didn't realize those would need to come out. I had been whacking away at the cover's edges with a rubber mallet and it wasn't budging.

All I'm wanting to do is swap out end plates and input shafts/bearings. The one transmission seems to have a very worn input shaft bearing and the other is tight.

Is it possible to split the main part of the case in order to re-seal that lower seam with sealant and not pull the entire trans apart? The one I want to use was leaking pretty good along that bottom seam.

 

[Jonathan]

No, the two ends hold the center halves together. You'll have to take the whole thing apart.

Honestly though, it's not really that much trouble. Cleaning it up and figuring out the lockout balls, bars, and springs (without any manual!) after they fell out was the hardest part.