Oil Pan Removal

[dnb]

I need to change the rear main seal in an '89 XJ / 4.0
The oil pan is seriously stuck. I've pulled out all the bolts from the bottom, but can't break it loose.

Any ideas? Are there any "hidden" bolts that can't be seen from the bottom?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[crimsondragon]

Did you try taking a flatblade screwdriver and driving it between the pan and the block? No hidden bolts but there are some nuts in a couple of places.

 

[dnb]

yes in several spots to the point of actually bending the lip. It's almost like there is another bolt I'm not seeing or someone glued it on. I've done this several times on other vehicles and never had this problem.

 

[Ivan]

There aren't any hidden bolts, as all oil pan bolts can be seen from underneath. I just did a RMS replacement on my '98 this past weekend, so it's all still pretty fresh in my mind.

Some things I learned to make a RMS replacement easier. Once you loosen the pan, it can be a real pain to move it out of the way. Since I was also installing some drop brackets, I remove some of the front end components.

I removed the springs and unbolted the lower shock mounts. I then removed the track bar bolt at the axle end and move it out of the way. I removed the steering stabilizer bolt at the axle and also the passenger side tie rod end at the steering knuckle, and swung all that out of the way. I then lowered the axle down as far as it would droop, and I had all kinds of clearance to slide the pan out. It really only adds about an hour's time to move everything I mentioned, and made life easier overall. You'll otherwise spend at least an hour trying to jockey the pan out, and some folks actually unbolt the oil pump and drop in the pan for more clearnce, to remove the pan. Believe me, it will make reinstalling the oil pan a lot easier too.

Another trick I really liked when I went to reinstall the pan was to use some RTV and install the pan gasket to the bottom of the engine block. Apply a thin stip of RTV round the bottom of the block. You don't need ungodly amounts of RTV. Just enough for the gasket to stick to the block. Start from the back around the dip and begin pressing the gasket in place. As you do this, use some of the pan bolts to hold the gasket in place as you work your way towards the front of the engine. Go back and press the gasket in place really well and let it sit for a while. Once the RTV has had a chance to set, you can remove the pan bolts holding the gasket in place, then proceed to install the pan. I feel it works better than using the zip ties or rubber band trick to hold the gasket to the pan. What worried me about gasket to the oil pan aspect, is that if the gasket at the rear of the pan dip is not perfectly in place to meet the groove in the rear bearing cap, you're going to wind up with a bigger leak. At least my way you know the gasket is where it is suppose to end up on the block, and the pan will seat it the rest of the way.

Do search on how to remove and install the upper seal. Mine came out relatively easy by tapping it out. However, I was only able to push the new one back in half way before it became "stuck". At that point I loosen the remaining bearing caps just a bit, gave them each a slight tap with a hammer so the crank would loosen, and the seal then went in the rest of the way with litte effort. Just torque the caps to 80 ft lbs once you have the seal in place....

 

[dnb]

Thanks, I like the idea of putting the gasket on the block.

I'll go back to it in the morning.

 

[Pelican]

Personally, I wouldn't use a screwdriver--you don't want to bend the lip any more than you have to or scar the mating surfaces. In a sense some pans are essentially glued on. I've used a fairly stiff thin bladed putty knife and driven it in all around the joint until the pan will break free by whanging on it with a rubber mallet or hammer and a block of wood. Takes patience.

 

[joe_peters]

Personally, I wouldn't use a screwdriver--you don't want to bend the lip any more than you have to or scar the mating surfaces. In a sense some pans are essentially glued on. I've used a fairly stiff thin bladed putty knife and driven it in all around the joint until the pan will break free by whanging on it with a rubber mallet or hammer and a block of wood. Takes patience.

BRILLIANT! That is how you do it.

 

[ParadiseXJ]

Spray on gasket remover all around the pan...let it sit overnight...your pan should be laying on your axle in the morning...that's what worked for me, twice!! It's about $10 at NAPA.

 

[dnb]

Wish I would have known about that earlier. Pan is off & reshaped. Off to get a brass punch. Hopefully NAPA or ACE have one.

 

[joe_peters]

Wish I would have known about that earlier. Pan is off & reshaped. Off to get a brass punch. Hopefully NAPA or ACE have one.

Buy a piece of brass or copper rod--cut off what you need length wise and have at it.

EDIT: make sure you lube the top piece of the RMS before trying to install it and be careful not to cut it.

 

[kastein]

Personally, I wouldn't use a screwdriver--you don't want to bend the lip any more than you have to or scar the mating surfaces. In a sense some pans are essentially glued on. I've used a fairly stiff thin bladed putty knife and driven it in all around the joint until the pan will break free by whanging on it with a rubber mallet or hammer and a block of wood. Takes patience.

X2, though I would probably use heat (not open flame obviously) and some sort of penetrating lube or grease cutter - brakleen tends to melt and dissolve things very nicely, and is one of my favored problem solvers.

Buy a piece of brass or copper rod--cut off what you need length wise and have at it.

EDIT: make sure you lube the top piece of the RMS before trying to install it and be careful not to cut it.

X2.

Home Depot used to sell 3/16" brass rod, wish I'd bought more while they still had it. Hit your local hardware store, they will probably have it... you could also buy some 10ga or 8ga solid conductor copper grounding wire and use it. It's about 25 cents a foot and you can shape or grind it at will and just toss it in the recycling at the end of the day, and there is next to no chance you will manage to mar the block or crank with copper or brass, just keep it away from the bearings.

 

[sjx40250]

Putty knife is best for me. I haven't tried or knew about the gasket remover. Might try it next time.

On stock rigs, I have found that dropping the axle actually makes it harder to remove the pan. The reason is that he UCA and LCA's make the axle drop in an arc that reduces clearance between the bell housing and the axle. Pan won't come out. Raising the axle allows for the pan to come out with minor clearance.

 

[Pelican]

Heat and gasket remover sound good--learn something every day.

 

[Ivan]

Putty knife is best for me. I haven't tried or knew about the gasket remover. Might try it next time.

On stock rigs, I have found that dropping the axle actually makes it harder to remove the pan. The reason is that he UCA and LCA's make the axle drop in an arc that reduces clearance between the bell housing and the axle. Pan won't come out. Raising the axle allows for the pan to come out with minor clearance.

It probably worked for me because of the fact that I disconnected the track bar, steering stabilizer and the passenger side of the tie rod; and swung stuff out of the way. I had all sorts of room.....

 

[5-90]

I need to change the rear main seal in an '89 XJ / 4.0
The oil pan is seriously stuck. I've pulled out all the bolts from the bottom, but can't break it loose.

Any ideas? Are there any "hidden" bolts that can't be seen from the bottom?

Any help would be appreciated.

If it's still the factory seal, it's going to be a bear to break.

Use a putty knife to get in between the sump and block - flexible will be easier to get in at first (then twist to open up,) while a stiff blade will be more difficult to get started, but easier to prise with.

Use the later (1996-2006) one-piece moulded rubber gasket on reassembly.

If you've not lifted yet, jack the front end up to full droop (1/2-1" of air under the front tyres, with the suspension free.) You can get additional space - if needed - by either removing the nuts from the transmission mount at the crossmember (then jack up the transfer case) and/or putting the OEM tyre changing jack in between the front subframe and axle tube.

You'll have to work to get past the bellhousing without lift (a flat prybar can also help considerably here) going in and out, but I've done it with a 3" lift and all four wheels on the ground - so you don't need a lot of extra room (but you do need some.)

Oddly enough, I've got a similar job (1990 w/oil pump and rear main) going out in the driveway - only I've got an Intern doing it...!

 

[MoFo]

With the last RMS that I removed, I bought a 3' brass rod. I loosened all the bearing caps. I proceeded to cut the rod into 6" sections, then hammered, beat and bent them all until I ran out of brass rod. I ended up useing a 3/16" steel punch and sleeved it with a thin wall brass tube to protect the crankshaft. I had to really beat that punch hard until the upper seal broke loose. Once it moved, it was pretty easy to get out. I have that punch in my toolbox with the brass tube superglued to it. Make sure you protect the crank with brass, some of these are stuck really bad. The brass tube is readily available in most hobby shops.

 

[dnb]

It probably worked for me because of the fact that I disconnected the track bar, steering stabilizer and the passenger side of the tie rod; and swung stuff out of the way. I had all sorts of room.....

I've got a 3" lift and Currie's 1 ton drag link and tie rod set up. After pulling this stuff out and droping the axle, there was plenty of room.

I believe this was still the factory seal. It was a bear to get loose. Used a stiff 3" putty knife and hammer and tapped it along until done. Took some time, but it's done. RMS upper half came out easy and the new one slid right in. Just got a 1/4 brass punch and ground it down a little to make sure it would go in easier. I used the 1 piece gasket, made reassembly real easy.

Only problem is I must have marred the threads on the ball joint on the tie rod. Anyone know off hand what thread it is. I need to go get a die to recut the threads after work tomorrow.

Thanks guys. When it wouldn't come loose, I started to question myself. Don't know anyone where we just moved.

Wish I had an Intern!

 

[Ivan]

......Only problem is I must have marred the threads on the ball joint on the tie rod. Anyone know off hand what thread it is. I need to go get a die to recut the threads after work tomorrow.

I don't know what the thread size/pitch is off hand, but why don't you just take the castle nut off the other end of the tie rod, and take it with you to match the die you need.....

 

[dnb]

That's what I'm going to do, it just would have been nice to know when I walk in.