Occupy Wall Street

What a foolish statement. Since rape isn't "mutually exclusive to the OWS movement" it's okay? It says a LOT about the character/personality of the OWS movement. Birds of a feather...


I was thinking the same thing but then I thought of the business man Bernie Madoff and just recently Corzine so I guess all wealthy business men and fund managers are crooks and thieves?? Right??

I don't agree with the behavior at any level and if the OWS want to be see as having a legitimate need to speak their grievances as GOOD HONEST CITIZENS they need to take the moral high ground and smoke out the bad apples in their midst.. It's no different than you and I witness a person hit by a car and just keep walking pretending we didn't see it that makes a person less in my eyes.. Standing up for what you believe is important so is defending it from those who wish to use it for a vehicle to do bad things and OWS definitely has brought up some good issues..


Using the police to control and dictate the actions of the OWS reminds me a lot of the movies from the 30's of Hitler and his actions against many and that scares me because most just encourage the police to keep doing it.. Those people who encourage the police and their actions are just sheeple in my eyes and no different the sheeple in the 30's in germany that facilitated Hitlers rise in power..

Do the OWS have a right to protest.. YES..
Do they have a right to air their grievances in a public forum including sit ins and marches.. YES..
Do they have a right to cause vandalism and destruction during those times.. NO..
Does business have a right to ask those to leave that causing a disruption on THEIR personal property.. YES..
IF that causes a disruption for some folks during their daily lives is that too damn bad.. YES (some might have to wake the hell up and look around and see what's going on in the world)..
Are those in power afraid and using this as an excuse to abuse police power.. FU*&^%% YES..

If you cannot see that YOU ARE BLIND..



themud
:thumbup:
 
Is it okay to overlook crimes because we serve a greater need? Is that what you defend?

That is the Federal Government's responsibility, right?!
I remember going to war because somebody lied; losing our friends and family to preserve someone else's profit and control of oil, an ever-depleting natural resource.

So lets not miss the point here:
The federal government of the U.S.A. is a stronghold for money-hungry tyrants pushing their corporate agendas.
This is what OWS is about - getting the people of America's interests and agenda back on track.
The United States should serve itself, and then the world by taking lead in a positive and honorable direction.

The first step when dealing with a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists.
In our case, the problem is a corporately corrupted government mis-representing it's people and mis-using our money for elitist level benefits, effectively perpetuating crimes against humanity, society, the world, and our country itself.

I am not for some crazy healthcare scheme, free college, rape during protests, etc.
Nobody with half an ounce of intellect is, so please let us quit belittling one another on those grounds.
That is exactly the kind of ignorant distraction that got us in this mess in the first place.
We can all agree that rape is wrong, and obviously these acts are the exception perpetrated by OWS movement tag-a-longs.
OWS should be ashamed of this, and do everything in its power to eradicate these mis-guided individuals from their protests.
But I am for paying teachers, providing jobs, and keeping my fellow Americans healthy.
I am also for funding science and technology to make a future with 7 billion humans on Earth sustainable.

Did you know the bank bailout of 2008 would fund NASA for 50 years?
That simple statement can help people realize how much money the banks got.
Because NASA is pretty freaking expensive, you know, propelling rockets at 5 miles a second to reach orbit takes a lot of resources - but 50 years worth of NASA funding!?
That amount of money is unfathomable, and to think it went to the people who crippled our economy with bad banking practices and went on to get million dollar bonuses that year...

The government is out of line.

This is a big problem - one with difficult and unprecedented change and action required for positive solutions, solutions which will take time to develop and implement.
These are changes that nobody can easily describe or plan for - we have to be in it together in order to solve it together.
I do not trust that the current government has what it takes.
We have no modern form of honor to guide us.
Only corruption and greed.

The OWS protestors have failed to illuminate these issues at hand effectively.
Part of this trouble has come from the politically controlled media.
Much of the mainstream media reporting is biased, and done with intent to preserve the current political structure and reputation while focusing on OWS problems in an effort to discredit the movement.
Unfortunately, there is no one-liner headline solution to the problems America faces with its government, and no creditable OWS communication source to deliver this non-existent solution.

But the problem has been illuminated in a big way, this was step 1.
Now it is time to move on to the next steps on working together to solve the issues.
I wonder what will come of OWS?
Will they organize enough to get their positive messages heard, easily understood?

I am not on one side or the other.
Simply put, I want what everyone wants: Justice.
To know I am helping my country be the best in the world when I pay taxes.
To know that my hard work helps build and support the future in positive ways.
(not wars and bankers)

Simple solutions to the biggest issues our society face just don't exist - part of the OWS frustration is exactly this 'in-too-deep' issue - the way things work in our society are fundamentally flawed, making change next to impossible.
Half of the protesters are likely under-educated about the issues and jumping on the 'everything sucks' bandwagon.
Unfortunately for OWS, it attracts this kind of unorganized societal filth: rapists, whining kids who can't pay for their bad decisions on school loans, etc.

But that is not the reason this thing started.
OWS was formed to get the message out - we have a problem.
And it was formed poorly, without leadership, without planning.
That's why all walks of life are jumping on - everyone has something to be upset about.
That level ground formation is the inherit power (and weakness) - there is no talking-head leadership.
It is a collective of people who feel that they are not being governed fairly, for various reasons, some good, some ridiculous.

Half of the posts in this thread are naive or motivated by fear, twisted into spiteful retaliation at one another, focusing on hate rather than considering the main point:
The government of the United States no longer represents its people fairly.
Thats what this is about.
Lets fix it.

Here is a thought:
If we had invested the past decade's trillion dollars of war money into renewable fuel source research, I'll bet America would have the world in the palm of their hand.
We would then be leading towards an age of unlimited energy and peace as the deliverer of clean and renewable energy, driving a thriving green and positive economy.
With clean energy solutions, many conflicts the world over will dissolve, allowing focus on more important human motivations such as kindness, science, exploration, and aid.
Instead, we've perpetuated thick-headed barbaric killing over an oil driven existence that will last a hundred more years or so before there is none left.
Oil means everything to modern existence; it is toothbrushes, toothpaste, plastic bags, pesticides for crops, 8 gallons of oil in every tire.
As long as oil is everything, we will have a skewed political structure to preserve how our society works.
It works on OIL.
 
That is the Federal Government's responsibility, right?!
I don't agree. No entity is responsible for overlooking crime, because it's a farce to suggest this responsibility exists in the first place.
I remember going to war because somebody lied; losing our friends and family to preserve someone else's profit and control of oil, an ever-depleting natural resource.
Don't drink the Kool Aid. Just because liberals/liberal media spread this myth doesn't make it true. The fact is the Bush administration used the intelligence it was provided. Bush later admitted that this was one of his greatest failures as president. He didn't lie, though. A CIA operative eventually admitted to providing false information, but that was his lie, not the president's.

Making matters worse, Iraq had become very uncooperative with the WMD inspection teams. It was universally agreed that Saddam would immediately restart the WMD program as soon as the UN pulled out.

There's also an abundance of support from Democrats at that time encouraging the president to take military action. Why this was ignored just goes to show the bias from mainstream media. Also, a key Iraqi official who defected told U.S. officials that Iraq did, in fact, still have WMD and that they had moved it just days before the invasion. So really, the intelligence was more accurate than the anti Bush crowd is ever willing to admit.

Another interesting fact: WMD was never the sole justification for invading Iraq the 2nd time. We had ample justification as a result of Saddam continually ignoring the UN resolutions and routinely engaging our military aircraft with AA missiles.

Did you serve in the 1st Gulf War or the 2nd one, or both?

...lots of text...

I agree with much of what you wrote. I think the essential point is that people are fed up with crony capitalism; the lack of accountability/turning a blind eye toward corruption and greed. If OWS wants to direct their protest and dissatisfaction toward the real people responsible for the mess we're in, they need to go to Wash. D.C. It isn't Wall Street and it isn't big business; it's the politicians who paved the way with policy and regulations that benefited their friends and themselves.
 
As for the rape issues. Has any actual police reports been filed? I can see people looking to stir up trouble or make the whole situation look bad by reporting to the news that rape and other crimes are happening there.

Of course crime will happen when you assemble large groups of random people. I remember hearing about a lot of rape allegations during hurricane katrina in the louisiana superdome. That doesn't mean all the refugees in the superdome were rapists.
 
But that is not the reason this thing started.
OWS was formed to get the message out - we have a problem.
And it was formed poorly, without leadership, without planning.

I agree with 98% of your post, but you are wrong about OWS being formed without leadership and planning. I see it going exactly as planned.
 
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As for the rape issues. Has any actual police reports been filed? I can see people looking to stir up trouble or make the whole situation look bad by reporting to the news that rape and other crimes are happening there.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_park_big_top_ilBy4VfYIwDGt2I1rM33vL

Yep. Troublemakers just trying to make the movement look bad. Somebody ought to slap those silly b****s back in line.
(The preceding 2 sentences are sarcasm)


I'm not in New York, so I can't say for sure what's happening there. The news reports I'm reading indicate that crime is happening in the park, and the protesters are actively discouraging the reporting of those crimes.
 
I don't agree. No entity is responsible for overlooking crime, because it's a farce to suggest this responsibility exists in the first place.

I don't agree, either, sorry about my failed attempt at sarcasm.
Our government has demonstrated on many occasions that it can't identify right from wrong.
(and we the people are the ones who are responsible for keeping our government accountable and on track, so the ball is back in our court!)

You're right about these protesters needing to focus their occupation on Washington.
I'm not sure why they haven't figured that out yet.
 
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_park_big_top_ilBy4VfYIwDGt2I1rM33vL

Yep. Troublemakers just trying to make the movement look bad. Somebody ought to slap those silly b****s back in line.
(The preceding 2 sentences are sarcasm)


I'm not in New York, so I can't say for sure what's happening there. The news reports I'm reading indicate that crime is happening in the park, and the protesters are actively discouraging the reporting of those crimes.

Ok I read about the "terrifying spree" and it included 1 alleged rape... Are people making such a huge deal of one allegation of rape? Do you really believe there's 100's of victims that are being some how mind controlled and not reporting their abuse? Do these protest organizers have that sort of power over women or are they being held captive? They are being forced to keep their abuse silent, yet some how the news knows about it and is reporting on it?

Or, is it more likely a case of the media blowing things out of proportion to make the area seem unsafe and hope the cops shut it down. Also, random people who are against OWS reporting to the news(again not to the police) that these crimes are happening seems likely.

Rape is not to be taken lightly by any means, but I am sure you can look at any major city and see more than 1 allegation of rape on any given day.
 
Rape is not to be taken lightly by any means, but I am sure you can look at any major city and see more than 1 allegation of rape on any given day.

but reporting that one allegation in a city would not discredit a movement.

The real question is, let's for discussion say the rape occurred. That was one rape of how many in New York that day, week, month? Put that one rape into that larger perspective and it does not have the shock value to the anti-OWS populous. Similiar to points I have made the whole thread, public urination & defecation is occurring, all over the city, but the police are focusing ONLY on the OWS camp area. Singularly, the public urination and defecation at the OWS camp is a news item, but in the perspective of it is happening more in other parts of the community does not provide ammunition to the anti-OWS crowd.

Want more, how many stadium parking lots have urine stains on the lamp stanchions? Let's close down stadiums! How many fights between rival teams fans occur in parking lots of these same stadiums? Let's not have anymore games.

There it is fixed. Over simplification to a complex issue gets us nowhere. Rather than concentrating on alleged (and except for rape) minor crimes take a step back and look at the root issues and larger picture.

The OWSers have a real and legitimate concern, just like last years tea partiers did in their rants against congress. Rather than just dismiss these two groups and what they have to say maybe take a listen.
 
The OWSers have a real and legitimate concern, just like last year’s tea partiers did in their rants against congress. Rather than just dismiss these two groups and what they have to say maybe take a listen.

If the OWS movement wants to be taken seriously, then they need to move their picket lines to the halls of Congress and tents to the front lawn of the White House.
 
If the OWS movement wants to be taken seriously, then they need to move their picket lines to the halls of Congress and tents to the front lawn of the White House.


Why?

Aren't the recipients of the corruption equally cuplable... ESPECIALLY, when we all know the recipients are constantly lobbying to get the government tilted in their favor and free hand-outs?


Someone made an analogy about a drug user, and said something about asking the drug dealer to stop selling drug.

That is what going to Washington would be the same as... go to Washington and ask the drug dealers (Politicians in Wachington) to stop selling drug (corrupt, special access to governemnt).

Instead, the OWSers are going to the drug user and telling them to stop using the drugs because, while it may be good for them, it's screwing everyone else.
 
To act like Washington and Wall Street are not two equally cuplable parties in the corruption that is the source of the complaints from OWS movement, is to be pretty miopic in my estimation.
 
They certainly are!
However, the government is the only body with the power to make and regulate laws in this realm.
Occupying Wall Street is like begging a drug dealer to quit dealing drugs.



No. Washington is the drug dealer. And corrupt special access to governemnt and its resources are the drug that the drug dealers in Washington are slinging.

Going to Washington is like begging a drug delaer to quit delaing drugs.
 
Bit of a stretch, dont you think?

No. Actually quite similiar.

Both encampments had desperate people that were unhappy with the government. Both encampments were dealt with by an overwhelming show of force. Douglas MacArthur used tanks, Hayward PD in support of Oakland PD brought in an armored car.

The young man that was injured during Oakland's protest was a veteran.

I understand the points of view that the anti-OWSers have, I just happen to agree with the OWS message. The attack on the middle class of America continues. You like to point out its from the left and the socialist agenda, I like to point out it is from the right captialist agenda. Like all he said/she said allegations the truth is in the middle. The middle working class is being attacked from both ends of the spectrum.
 
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