Occupy Wall Street

[iwannadie]

So you want me to buy that the .0016% (5000-ish) Americans in the streets are representing 308,880,000 Americans who allegedly share their same views?

No sale.......

Really, 1 person can represent an entire country. Ever herd of ambassadors? One person can go out and represent their country and speak on the countries behalf.

I certainly believe 1% of this country to be just totally nuts, so I can see 5,000 nuts sitting down there as an acceptable representation number.

I guess you have some weird idea of what representation actually is and have some formula behind it? How many people would it take to represent the 1% of america?

 

[XJEEPER]

Where I'm from, a herd is more than 1 and 5000 nuts are a cluster.

I clearly understand the concept of appointed/elected representation of the many by the few............. when did the OWS appointment/election process take place and by what authority?

I stand by my statement.

 

[urban yan]

Are lobbyists appointed/elected?... because most elected officials seem to have them steering their interests.
Should I, therefore, trust those elected officials more than non-elected folks free of lobbyists?... oh that’s right, I forgot, the OWS movement is being telepathically controlled by Stalin's ghost... so put on your aluminum hats everybody because XJEEPER smells another communist conspiracy.

 

[Darky]

Really, 1 person can represent an entire country. Ever herd of ambassadors? One person can go out and represent their country and speak on the countries behalf.

I certainly believe 1% of this country to be just totally nuts, so I can see 5,000 nuts sitting down there as an acceptable representation number.

I guess you have some weird idea of what representation actually is and have some formula behind it? How many people would it take to represent the 1% of america?

You are aware that the OWS folks are claiming to represent the 99% and not the 1% right?

 

[Tom R.]

I think the whole lot of them is a good idea.
I also realize that our current congress would NEVER let this pass. Good ideas are often just dreams.

What part of fiction did you not understand?

 

[iwannadie]

You are aware that the OWS folks are claiming to represent the 99% and not the 1% right?

Yea I mis-typed, It doesn't matter how many they claim to represent. The guy saying you have to be a certain number to represent another certain number makes no sense. They could have 1 guy down there and claim to represent 5 billion just as they could have 4 billion claiming to represent 5 billion.

 

[Darky]

Actually, from a statistical standpoint, sample size does matter.

 

[Boatwrench]

Actually size does matter.

Classic, couldn't resist.



I believe that there are more than 5000ish OWS supporters across the country. Then there are the people who are actually part of the 99% that either fail to realize or fail to admit they are part of thern 99%

 

[420BlackXJ]

What part of fiction did you not understand?

I GET IT!!! IT'S A XXXXING JOKE!!!!hasta

 

[XJEEPER]

Yea I mis-typed, It doesn't matter how many they claim to represent. The guy saying you have to be a certain number to represent another certain number makes no sense. They could have 1 guy down there and claim to represent 5 billion just as they could have 4 billion claiming to represent 5 billion.

Content and character of those in the street is a clear indication of their motivation and goals.

Do 99% of Americans feel that these folks represent their views and share their goals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bScRgWMaW-4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE2M7g_IWSE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8of8h-N1o7M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio&feature=related

 

[themud]

I think a better question I should ask myself is how many members of congress represent my views and share my goals guess what NONE.. In fact I would go so far as to say that NO business owners represent my views or share my goals and guess what all those asshats get to buy the lobbyists that steer the political structure to their goals.. I know that's tough to understand but I sure as hell have more in common with people that have integrity and morals.. And none of them are currently in power or have access to it like lobbyists.. Or run any large corporations.. PERIOD.. So by default yep I rate with the 99% folks not all but I hear them loud and clear..

themud

Content and character of those in the street is a clear indication of their motivation and goals.

Do 99% of Americans feel that these folks represent their views and share their goals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bScRgWMaW-4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE2M7g_IWSE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8of8h-N1o7M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio&feature=related

 

[urban yan]

Not only that, but XJEEPER's grasping at straws with his conclusions. He implies 99% of Americans share a homogenous value set in all respects of their lives. He also implies that the folks participating at the OWS movements are representative of the remaining 99% who are not. The truth is somewhat different; 99% of Americans come from different backgrounds with different value sets (they're not mindless drones for Christ's sake). They're part of an overlapping pie chart where the only valid commonality is their distaste for greed (wealth earned unfairly off their backs). Furthermore, folks participating at the OWS events are skewed towards a subset of the entire group - mainly people with time to spare such as young unemployed students, hippie-types, etc... The vast majority of the 99% are too busy working to participate effectively; therefore, the group's not statistically representative of the whole.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that XJEEPER finds comfort stereotyping those that don't sync with his narrow views.

 

[tbburg]

Stepping back and taking in the scene from a slightly wider perspective:

http://news.yahoo.com/attention-protestors-youre-probably-part-1-153806044.html

 

[tbburg]

Stepping back and taking in the scene from a slightly wider perspective:

http://news.yahoo.com/attention-protestors-youre-probably-part-1-153806044.html

 

[urban yan]

That was a very good article; but in the end it’s comparable to a mugger saying “You live in the richest country in the world, so shut up while I take your money.” Yes people are spoiled; yes they’ve mismanaged their finances and lost sight of their priorities, but it’s no excuse to rob them. Instead, this should be an opportunity to teach them some fiscal street smarts.

 

[Boatwrench]

Stepping back and taking in the scene from a slightly wider perspective:

http://news.yahoo.com/attention-protestors-youre-probably-part-1-153806044.html

Wow. I'm speechless.

 

[ocean_jet]

That was a very good article; but in the end it’s comparable to a mugger saying “You live in the richest country in the world, so shut up while I take your money.”

Exactly... and worse... this "Robin Hood" steals from the middle class to give to the rich...

 

[XJEEPER]

I think a better question I should ask myself is how many members of congress represent my views and share my goals guess what NONE.. In fact I would go so far as to say that NO business owners represent my views or share my goals and guess what all those asshats get to buy the lobbyists that steer the political structure to their goals.. I know that's tough to understand but I sure as hell have more in common with people that have integrity and morals.. And none of them are currently in power or have access to it like lobbyists.. Or run any large corporations.. PERIOD.. So by default yep I rate with the 99% folks not all but I hear them loud and clear..

themud

Mud,

I understand and agree with your desire to find commonality with those who operate with integrity and who’s actions are led by a moral compass.

By design, these characteristics are necessary for the US government to function as directed under the US Constitution. Our Founding Fathers knew this would always be an issue and they warned repeatedly of the need for constant vigilance by We the People in order to maintain our God-given rights and freedoms as outlined in the Constitution.

We the People are responsible to elect people who represent our interests and values. By design, We must also hold those whom we place in power, accountable for their actions. If they fail to perform our will, fail to operate with integrity or otherwise compromise our trust in their ability to perform, it is OUR DUTY to hold them accountable and expect immediate correction of course. The current state of our country is a direct result of this procedural failure.


I’ve witnessed first-hand, the course correction that can take place when elected officials are called to task and know that their job is on the line if they fail to listen to their “boss”.

Political Correctness is a scare tactic that by design, prevents folks from calling BS, when we see something that is morally or ethically wrong taking place.


I disagree with you on your statement regarding business owners. The majority of private businesses in the US fall into the SMB category. These business owners don’t have the money to pay lobbyists. They also don’t have the money to make huge campaign contributions to curry favor or provide leverage. The US Chamber of Commerce represents the small to medium business owners in the US. 96% of their membership is comprised of businesses with 100 employees or less.

Here is what they are doing to help our country to create jobs and turn the economy around. http://www.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/110905_jobs_letter.pdf

I’ve yet to see the OWS crowd providing anything like this……nor do I see organizations like the US Chamber aligning themselves with the OWS organization.

We don’t need a fundamental transformation of the US or a re-writing of the Constitution, by those who desire to take our country in a direction that restricts/removes personal freedom, which is what these OWS supporters want: http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/

 

[themud]

We both agree that we need a major reset politically because both sides are corrupt in fact I think we can chuck them all out and start again and we should. Either we vote and exercise our constitutional rights but unfortunately the only ones who want to run for office are for the most part pond scum and don't rate being human let alone leading humanity.. I agree this is our fault so what is it our crappy voting or the choices we have either one the outcome is the same?? I think we are seeing this as well with the protests, along with the unrestrained greed and corruption that is taking place.. You say you want the constitution I agree totally with any US CITIZENS right to peaceably protest and voice their grievances to the government and if that means tells the banks they suck get over it.. However you and I might disagree I think if anyone tries to or prevents people from doing that peacefully ANYWHERE except for private property they should be charged with a felony and thrown in jail.. You can't yell fire in a crowed theater but you without a doubt stand outside on public property and tell that theater it sucks (with a sign even) its up to the other patrons to agree or disagree with you..Do you have a right to go into the theater to say those things NO but if you want to wear the sign in to see a movie they can throw you out or not(they throw you out they better give your money back though).. Either we have a first amendment or we don't??? Right???


Ok on to the jobs issue yep you sure might be right about the small business I try and do good by them as I know they are trying to make it but I would like to see the number of people employed by companies with less than 100 people vs more. My guess is the larger companies employ more and those are the ones I have problems with as those at the top have no clue anymore as to what it takes to do any part of a job in that company. We went from a nation of blue collar that needed some white collar to a nation of white collar and little to no blue collar, scary in my eyes.. Many would blame the unions for this and while they sure did play their part, but giving away jobs just to improve the bottom line(that's all management) has gotten us to where we are today and it's going to get worse.. We need jobs but we need less than 80% of them to be service sector as those pay for crap and for people to survive and live decently either they need less debt or more in wages and since wages haven't grown since the 70's I think that wages are the big issue because bottom lines sure as hell have gotten bigger since then (and the compensation that goes with that to the higher ups).. This is also another problem with the 99% and hell I agree with them on that, go to school get a degree and do well, not so much anymore (you have to go broke to do that).. I always love the cry that it's investment that creates jobs right?? Madoff or Enron ring a bell maybe not so much.. The government needs to spend less Yep I agree, needs to have flat taxes yep, needs to tax all income at the same level (dividends, stocks and wages) yep, and we really need to fix our trade issues because we are getting screwed by a few other major players.. And as I have stated before if it doesn't get at least 40% made here the importing company can piss off we don't need it...


Just some ideas sorry for the long rant...


themud

Mud,

I understand and agree with your desire to find commonality with those who operate with integrity and who’s actions are led by a moral compass.

By design, these characteristics are necessary for the US government to function as directed under the US Constitution. Our Founding Fathers knew this would always be an issue and they warned repeatedly of the need for constant vigilance by We the People in order to maintain our God-given rights and freedoms as outlined in the Constitution.

We the People are responsible to elect people who represent our interests and values. By design, We must also hold those whom we place in power, accountable for their actions. If they fail to perform our will, fail to operate with integrity or otherwise compromise our trust in their ability to perform, it is OUR DUTY to hold them accountable and expect immediate correction of course. The current state of our country is a direct result of this procedural failure.


I’ve witnessed first-hand, the course correction that can take place when elected officials are called to task and know that their job is on the line if they fail to listen to their “boss”.

Political Correctness is a scare tactic that by design, prevents folks from calling BS, when we see something that is morally or ethically wrong taking place.


I disagree with you on your statement regarding business owners. The majority of private businesses in the US fall into the SMB category. These business owners don’t have the money to pay lobbyists. They also don’t have the money to make huge campaign contributions to curry favor or provide leverage. The US Chamber of Commerce represents the small to medium business owners in the US. 96% of their membership is comprised of businesses with 100 employees or less.

Here is what they are doing to help our country to create jobs and turn the economy around. http://www.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/110905_jobs_letter.pdf

I’ve yet to see the OWS crowd providing anything like this……nor do I see organizations like the US Chamber aligning themselves with the OWS organization.

We don’t need a fundamental transformation of the US or a re-writing of the Constitution, by those who desire to take our country in a direction that restricts/removes personal freedom, which is what these OWS supporters want: http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/

 

[urban yan]

Generally people have three options to effect change: Vote, Lobby, or Protest.

Voting works when: a) the candidates are honest with the public, b) they’re not groomed by PR firms to disguise their true intent c) they’re not, already, in the pocket of special interest groups.

Lobbying simply recreates the problems that already exist; more so, lobbyists relish the opportunity to be challenged on their ground because they’re entrenched, experienced, and better funded than the rest of us. It’s a no-contest, they know it, and that’s why they keep baiting folks away from Protests.

Protesting isn’t pretty, but it has proven itself effective on more than one occasion. It effected change during the French and Russian Revolutions, it was key during the Polish Solidarność movement and even during America’s War of Independence. The Red Coats were pissed because the Continental armies wouldn’t engage them traditionally. They preferred conventional warfare (put on a bright coat, stand in a straight line out in the open and fire); however, if the militia engaged the red coats on their terms America probably wouldn’t exist today.