non-jeep-having lurker - new guy from Sacto

[super32]

Hi, all!

My name is Donald... I'm 28yrs old. Graduated from Univ California, Davis. I live in Orangevale, CA, but travel back and forth from Sacto and Orangevale (is it even considered "travel" when it's in the same county?:sad1:
I currently have a 1991 Nissan Maxima, a 1997 Toyota Camry, and a 2005 Suzuki SV650... well, I shouldn't say "I"... The maxima and the bike is mine. The camry is my girlfriend's.

2ndly, I'd like to apologize if I'm breaking any Forum/Chapter rules by posting. I tried to read up on all the "stickies" and rules as much as I could before abruptly posting up.

Anyhow, long story short, I'm here for 1 initial (and hopefully soon to be long-term) reason; I'd like to get info on XJ/Cherokees. My current car is slowly dying, and I'm looking to get a 4x4 that will either take me to the snow or do some minor MINOR off-raoding. In fact, it might not even be considered "off-roading" compared to what most of you folks do. When I say "off-roading", for me (right now), it involves driving over dirt, mud, gravel. So, no canyon off-roading or hill-siding the car.. hehe :shiver:

I currently belong to 4 other forums which I frequent. Adding you to the list and possibly extending my stay here by actually getting a Jeep is quite exciting!
I currently belong to

• www.sacramentocrotchrockets.com - please, ignore the "crotchrockets" name... it's merely a facade, and the folks there are quite "mature" compared to the common image of a sport biker just a local place for me to join up on some local rides.
• www.motorcycleforums.com - a place for me to learn some more and broaden my horizons of other motorcycles
• www.maxima.org - my current car's favortie home.
• www.toyotanation.com - for my beaten down camry

So!
hopefully I will be able to keep coming back to learn more about the Cherokee enthusiasm here on the forum!

 

[super32]

So, with the intro above... I'd like to ask for some opinions from the locals, if I may? :eyes:

Anyhow, I am currently checking this 1988 Cherokee Chief out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/1513160932.html :arrowl:

and I would REALLY REALLY appreciate it if the great sages of -Sierra can give me their thoughts? Not so much a "yes! buy it!" or "blegh! don't touch it!" answer, but more like a "well, the 88's eat gas like no other" or "those things are armored tanks and nothing can destroy it!" or "those ___ {enter mechanical part or something that fails} go out so much, you gonna go nuts!!!" type of opinions.hone:

I really really prefer a 5spd/standard transmission way over the autotragic ('tragically' stereotyped from my Nissan Maxima). i hear the 5spd is better anyhow for hauling or controling incline climbs and such, whereas a A/T will last only so long under such loads.
I know I said I don't do much "major" adventure off-roading, but it's always nice to know it's there if I someday get into it :farmer:

And, BTW, I've been searching for a little over a week, and this was the ONLY 5spd 4x4 (oh yeah, I' prefer 4x4 too for some minorminorminor off-roading and occasional snow travel) I could find within a 300mi radius of "Sacramento, CA" area. aper:

Anyhow, I'd appreciate anybody's and everybody's opinion! Even if it's to get a different model/year!:wave1:

Thanks!

*edit*
my budget currently is maxxed out at about $2500

 

[AIbandit]

Welcome to


the 1988 is a Renix jeep with a different computer system then the HO.
there's like a 10 hp drop on the renix from the HO. Most renix issues can be diagnosed with an ohm meter ( no scanning for codes =/) not that big of a deal any issue you have has most likely been posted and fixed before.
http://www.lunghd.com/ this site covers a ton of renix specific tech.

It says it's a Tow package 88 so it might have a D44 rear which would be a great start .
I believe most were in 87 but 88 is still possible here's a link for IDing the axle http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/gear1.html

(oh yeah, I' prefer 4x4 too for some minorminorminor off-roading and occasional snow travel)

We will see how long that will last... I would love having the Rubicon 2 hours away.

whereas a A/T will last only so long under such loads.
I know I said I don't do much "major" adventure off-roading, but it's always nice to know it's there if I someday get into it :farmer:

The AW4 does great crawling. Ive used both AX15 and AW4 (more so the AW4) Offroad and had no issues with either of them.

 

[DanNJeep]

You can't really go wrong with an XJ. It's a very fair price from what you can see in the pics. Of coarse this is assuming it passes smog. Be sure and make him get the smog!

A 91 and up would be a better choice, but that is not to say this is a bad choice. Like Mp said it probaly has the D44 in the rear (which in case you didn't know is pretty much the way most guys go for a rear diff, I have one from an 87!). But as long as you don't mind a few less HP it's a good choice.

Hell if you don't buy it I might, jk.

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

I prefer manual aswell in any vehicle.. besides my jeep. the aw4 is the strongest tranny available in an XJ.. and its an auto

to get a better idea.. whats your price range?

 

[frontman]

Knowing what I know now about xj's Price, engine, ect. for the amount of money you would spend on that older xj stock I would look at something newer with some minor upgrades to suspn, and stuff like that. its worth the money and adds alittle more peace of mind when going "minor lol" off road. you are gonna get hooked like everyone else.
good luck

 

[rocknxj]

Welcome.

I like the XJ so much, I have two. If you are to do some MILD off roading as you suggest, you should look into a 2" budget boost or 3.5" short arm lift (Rubicon Express only). They are inexpensive, provide additional capability, and sets you apart from the stockers.

There's nothing wrong with a stock XJ for mild offroad use, but you wont be happy with stock, I can tell. Be wise and buy a '98 or newer with as few miles as possible and plan out your buying plan to save as much money and time as possible.

Sierra Chapter will be your primary local source for all things used. Many of us trade, upgrade, and swap parts through the chapter, so you are off to a good start.

Last word: Don't be put off by people giving you advice. Everyone thinks they know what you want and they mean well, but YOU should build your rig the way YOU want it. Then change it later once you find out the advice was right.

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Welcome.

I like the XJ so much, I have two. If you are to do some MILD off roading as you suggest, you should look into a 2" budget boost or 3.5" short arm lift (Rubicon Express only).

Last word: Don't be put off by people giving you advice. Everyone thinks they know what you want and they mean well, but YOU should build your rig the way YOU want it. Then change it later once you find out the advice was right.

Well well.. is this not contradicting yourself?

Rubicon express is not gods gift to jeep:wave:

 

[JRW7072009]

Welcome to
I would look into a 91 and up just so you get the TBI instead of the carb. If you do a 92-99 you will get the high pinion Dana 30 with out the vacuum disconnect, and the 95+ have stronger u joints. Also if you can find one with a 8.25 rather then the Dana 35 rear axle.

Here is some info that might help you.
Engines

2.5L I4 carbureted - 105 hp @ 5000 rpm, 132 ft lb torque @ 2800 rpm - used in 84-85 models
2.5L I4 TBI (fuel injected) - 117 hp @ 5000 rpm, 135 ftlb @ 3500 rpm - used in 86 and updated in 87-90 to 121hp
2.5L I4 MPI (multi-port injection) - 130 hp @ 5250 rpm, 139 ft lb @ 3250 rpm - used in 91-00

GM 2.8L V6 - 115 hp @ 4800 rpm, 145 ft lb @ 2400 rpm - used in 84-86

Renault 2.1L 4cyl. Turbo Diesel - 85 hp @ 3750 rpm, 132 ft lb @ 2750 rpm - used in 85-87

Italian VM 2.5L Turbo Diesel - 140 hp, 236 ft lb torque - used in overseas XJs

4.0L I6 EFI "Power Tech" - 177 hp @ 4750 rpm, 220 ft lb @ 4000 rpm - used 87-90
4.0L I6 MPI "Power Tech HO" (High Output) - 190 hp @ 4750 rpm, 220 ft lb @ 4,000 rpm - used in 91-95 and updated in 96-01 to 225 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm (00-01 models use a distributorless ignition system)

Transmissions

Manual Transmissions
T4 & T5 - 4 & 5 speed manual - manufactured by Borg Warner - used 84-86 with 2.5L I4 and 2.8L V6 engines
BA10/5 - 5 speed manual - manufactured by Peugot - used only up to 89
AX5 - 5 speed manual - manufactured by Aisin - used with 2.8L V6 and 87+ with 2.5L I4
AX15 - 5 speed manual - manufactured by Aisin - used with 4.0L I6 engines
NV3550 - 5 speed manual - manufactured by New Venture - used in 00-01 in SE models with 4.0L I6 engines

Automatic Transmissions
Torqueflight 904 - 3 speed automatic - used 84-86 with 2.8L V6 and 2.5L I4 engines
30RH - 3 speed automatic - used with 2.5L I4 engine 94?-00
AW4 - 4 speed automatic, electronically controlled - manufactured by Aisin - used from 87-01 (87-91 models include a Power/Comfort button that adjusts the shift points)

Transfer Cases

The transfer cases used are all chain driven with aluminum housings. NP stands for "New Process" which is the brand, if you will. The newer ones are NV instead which stands for "New Venture". It is the same transfer case just a different name.

NP207 - "Command-Trac" part-time only - 2.61:1 ratio low range - used 84-87
NP231 - "Command-Trac" part-time only - 2.72:1 ratio low range - shift pattern 2H - 4H - N - 4L - used 87-01

NP228/NP229 - "Selec-Trac" - 4Hi(full-time) - N - 4Lo (part-time) - used 84-87
NP242 - "Selec-Trac" part-time OR full-time - 2.72:1 ratio low range - shift pattern 2wd - 4part-time - 4full-time - N - 4LO - used 87-01

Driveshafts

Front Driveshaft - On 84-87 XJs (NP207 t-case) the front shaft is a "GKN" style shaft. On 87-01 XJs (NP231/242 t-case) the front is a "double cardan" two-piece driveshaft with a CV joint at the transfer case end.

Rear Driveshaft - The rear is a one-piece shaft with standard u-joints at both ends. The slip yoke is located on the output shaft of the transfer case. On 84-95 models, the yoke slides in and out of the transfer case and is lubricated by the ATF fluid internally. On 96-01 due to a design change, the slip yoke is external (does not slide in and out of the transfer case). This slip yoke is covered with a rubber boot.

Axles

Front Axles
Dana 30 high pinion - reverse cut - 27 spline, 1.16" diameter shafts, 7.13" ring gear - used 84-99 (some axles through 91 are vacuum disconnect, 92+ are non-disconnect, 89-95 with ABS have 5-297x u-joints, all 95+ have 5-297x u-joints, all others have 5-260x u-joints)

Dana 30 low pinion - standard cut - 27 spline, 1.16" diameter shafts, 7.13" ring gear, 5-297x u-joints - used 00-01

Rear Axles
Rear Axle pics including non stock ford 8.8 and 9" and D60- http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/325000-325999/325707_182_full.jpg
(Note on Dana 35 axles sometimes referred to as Dana 35C - The "C" does not stand for c-clip. It stands for "custom" meaning it came from Dana unfinished.)
(Note on 8.25 axles - none of these axles were used on XJs with ABS brakes. If you have ABS, you have the Dana 35. Without ABS you could have either axle. 8.25 axles are c-clip)

Dana 35 non c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 84-89
Dana 35 c-clip - 27 spline, 1.18" diameter shafts, 7.58" ring gear, 2.62" axle tube - used 90-01
Chrysler 8.25 - 27 spline, 1.17" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 91-96
Chrysler 8.25 - 29 spline, 1.21" diameter shafts, 8.25" ring gear, 3" axle tube - used 97-01
Dana 44 non c-clip - 30 spline, 1.31" diameter shafts, 8.5" ring gear, 2.75" axle tube - used 87-89 on some(not all) XJs equipped with towing package.


Gearing

3.07 - used with 4.0L engine / manual transmission
3.31 - only available on older (pre87?) 2 door XJs with "Fuel Economy" package
3.55 - used with 4.0L engine / automatic transmission
3.73 - found in some XJs with the towing package
4.10 - used with 2.5L engine usually, and older XJs with the "Off-Highway Vehicle" package.
4.56 - rare but can be found on some older (~ 89 ~) models with 2.5L engine and auto transmission

Cooling Systems

Open style - any normal cooling system used today. Opposite of closed style described below.

Closed style - has no radiator cap and utilizes a pressure bottle. This style cooling system was used in 87-90 XJs.

Airbags

Drivers side airbag (mechanical) was added in 95.
Passenger side airbag was added in 97. Airbags changed from mechanical to electronic in this year also.

 

[Phil]

I would get the lowest mileage 4.0L car you can afford/justify.

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Welcome to
I would look into a 91 and up just so you get the TBI instead of the carb. If you do a 92-99 you will get the high pinion Dana 30 with out the vacuum disconnect, and the 95+ have stronger u joints. Also if you can find one with a 8.25 rather then the Dana 35 rear axle.

.

A: All factory 4.0L's are Fuel injection. None were Carb!
B: All xj's pre 2000 were High pinion
C: the 87-90 XJ's only came with a vacuum Disconnect if they had the 231TC
D: the 92-96 8.25 was 27spline and is hardly any better then a D35..
C: Axle shafts and axles are cheap to swap, Please dont tell someone to pick the 98 thats got 288k and beat to hell, over good condition 89, or 93, or 94 etc.. simply because of factory part differences. Better front axle shafts are about $30 at a Yard.. and a 29spline 8.25 or Dana 44 upgrade will only run a couple hundred bucks:cheers:

 

[MaxxXJ]

id get a 97 98 99 xj with the AW4 transmission and 4.0 its got the high pinion dana 30 find one with at least a chrysler 8.25, you dont want the dana 35 in the rear. and i like to find my 4wd's with as little done to them as possible, cuz to me they most likely have had the least amount of off roading done with them so their sometimes in better condition. but everyone treats their xj different.

 

[scottmcneal]

Welcome..
Now the madness, as you have been reading..Good luck

 

[super32]

oh geez... I know I came to the right place now with all the information posted above.:lecture:

I really appreciate all the info. Hopefully the XJ I eventually get will be "good". Anyway... I hope to utilize all the info in this forum to make the best decision.

BTW, how long (in miles) do XJ's last? is it possible to keep them running "forever"? that is... 300k+?

Thanks, all!

 

[Johnnie Walker]

All of the Xj's I have had have gotten 250K+ no problem. One of the last ones I had got to 352k before any issues (would have been fine had my ex not ran it with no oil, damn broads.) With proper maintenance, you should see at least high 200s if not 3-400k.

 

[AIbandit]

oh geez... I know I came to the right place now with all the information posted above.:lecture:
!

You did indeed come to the right place but becareful about the information you recieve as scott pointed out.

A: All factory 4.0L's are Fuel injection. None were Carb!
B: All xj's pre 2000 were High pinion
C: the 87-90 XJ's only came with a vacuum Disconnect if they had the 231TC
D: the 92-96 8.25 was 27spline and is hardly any better then a D35..
C: Axle shafts and axles are cheap to swap, Please dont tell someone to pick the 98 thats got 288k and beat to hell, over good condition 89, or 93, or 94 etc.. simply because of factory part differences. Better front axle shafts are about $30 at a Yard.. and a 29spline 8.25 or Dana 44 upgrade will only run a couple hundred bucks:cheers:

BTW, how long (in miles) do XJ's last? is it possible to keep them running "forever"? that is... 300k+?

Thanks, all

Alot of people around here are running over 300k

 

[Letterman]

I would go with the combo, the all meat marvel can be very greasy, I am not a veggietarren so I don't know about the gourmet veggie, but that italian garlic supreme is the bomb!

 

[rocknxj]

I feel like a baby, with one XJ at 110k and one at 140k. I have a long way to go before these suckers retire.

 

[Logans91XJ]

Seriously I would just search the classilfields on the 4x4 forums or Jeep forums and buy one from a member. Or just find a Jeep Cherokee the newest and lowest mileage in your budget and buy it

 

[AIbandit]

I would go with the combo, the all meat marvel can be very greasy, I am not a veggietarren so I don't know about the gourmet veggie, but that italian garlic supreme is the bomb!

Seriously I would just search the classilfields on the 4x4 forums or Jeep forums and buy one from a member. Or just find a Jeep Cherokee the newest and lowest mileage in your budget and buy it

I wouldn't suggest looking to much at 4x4 forums because that's an offroad enthusiast targeted post. Craigslist is generally cheaper. Also I would take the Hawaiian not the italian garlic.