Newbie Offroader needs help with Locking

[88xjwheeler]

you can indeed run a locker in the front of your DD- I did it for nearly 2 years. BUT- if you are in Canada, where the snow falls are more generous than som of us are used to, I would have to agree with the "stick something in the back, and save up for an ARB (or similar) for the front" comments that one or two others have made. In fact, due to the snow, you may want to go selectable in the back now. Sure, locked front and rear are the way to go on the tough trails I like to run, but 3 weeks ago, it snowed while we were out wheeling, and I thought I would never get home on the highways and back roads I had to use. In 4wd, with a lock rite (or any other non selectable) in the front, you may as well forget about going up snow covered hills on the road. It will use every inch ( or cm) of road that is available and then some.

hope this helps you
Rich

 

[Majo]

Lockers just make u more stuck. I'd stay with advice from people that say good tow points, good rockers and armor, then learn to drive it good and take good lines before putting front and rear rockers in and burying yourself more... or buy a used winch.

 

[Çrestfa||en]

In 2wd, without power going through the front shaft the Lock-Rite opens up. It only locks up when there's power going through it.

Actually thats not the case. Lockrites are constatly engaged, the only time they unlock is in a turn when you have traction. That traction on the outside wheel of the turn forces the lockrite to ratchet(compressing the springs the push the lockrite into engagement) which allows it to differentiate. So in icey circumstances the lockrite will not unlock because it doesn't have enough traction. Example: I went up to my fav shooting spot a few weeks ago the lockrite never ratcheted the entire time since the the road was basicly almost ice, too slick to walk on or let the lockrite differentiate. Once I got back on dry road It released all it's torque built up during a turn. Either way I'd go with a lockrite just cause I like them and know them, and it has been plenty reliable.

 

[Çrestfa||en]

Lockers just make u more stuck. I'd stay with advice from people that say good tow points, good rockers and armor, then learn to drive it good and take good lines before putting front and rear rockers in and burying yourself more... or buy a used winch.

Ya thats why people were getting stuck in 2inches of snow, while I was driving around them on the shoulder in a ditch with 1 and a half feet of snow. People who say "learn to take good lines before you get a locker" are just wrong. Lockers allow you to take lines that would have been impossible before, and thus requires a completely different driving style. Why not just get a locker to start off with and learn from there.

 

[red87cherokee]

Lockers just make u more stuck.

Based on this logic, none of us would have a 4x4 . . . the common saying is that all a 4x4 does is get you further in before you get stuck. A 2wd won't get anywhere near as stuck as a 4wd, generally speaking. Do you also recommend everyone drive a completely stock 2wd Cherokee, with stock tires for a while before they get the 4x4 version?

I've gone 2wd (and had a lot of fun, and developed some skills) and 4wd (ditto), as well as with and without lockers (and developed skills that serve me well in both settings), but I'll go with a 4x4 and fully locked everytime, if given a choice.

Does it take some skill to get the most out of them(?) - he|| yes. And this is probably the nearest I come to agreeing with you, in that I believe that there is a great benefit in driving a basic vehicle (even 2wd) to gain skills. The current trend seems to be to max out the bank account, the car loan, and credit cards before gaining experience. I feel that the vehicle should grow with the skills of the driver, rather than the driver trying to figure out how to do difficult driving tasks with a highly modded and expensive vehicle that is unsuited to their abilities.

Do I have that skill(?), not really - I'm just learning and I admit that I don't have the skill to get the most out of the locked axles, yet. But I've had the experience leading up to this step (locked axles) and am ready for this improvement in traction.

Lockers may not be the first thing to get for your rig (I agree that tow hooks, armor, lift, tires, etc. probably come first) and everyone needs to gain as much experience in their rigs (whatever they drive) before overbuilding them, but lockers are definitely one of the best investments I have made in the rig.

Can they be quirky on the road? Sure are - but in my experience on muddy trails, gravel transitions, washboards, deep off camber mud, narrow trails with a good likelihood for body or underneath damage . . . front and rear auto lockers worked spectacularly. In the city or on the highway, with dry pavement, wet pavement, glare ice, packed snow, slush, and ascending/descending hills, they couldn't be beat. That said, I probably would not loan my vehicle to someone to drive due to the quirks caused by the automatic lockers. It does take some skill to utilize them safely and to best advantage.

 

[Majo]

Ya thats why people were getting stuck in 2inches of snow, while I was driving around them on the shoulder in a ditch with 1 and a half feet of snow. People who say "learn to take good lines before you get a locker" are just wrong. Lockers allow you to take lines that would have been impossible before, and thus requires a completely different driving style. Why not just get a locker to start off with and learn from there.

Dont' start with the snow thing. I live where the avg snowfall is anywhere between 80 inches to 127. Look up Montague, NY. It's the spot for snowmobilers...there's a reason. People that get stuck in 1 to 2 inches of snow make me feel safer, because they are removing themselves off the road cuz they are sorry drivers. Why it's true lockers allow you to take different lines what happens when u take a different line into a mudhole that swallows your vehicle or you take a different line and hang up compelete on a rock....glad all that money paid off for something like a winch ... I'm not advocating a winch right of the bat, lockers are nice, but be prepared for them. They add more stress on your axles/ u joints then they normally operate at unlocked too.


and in response to the "make you more stuck" comment i made, the topic of this post was NOOB offroader... don't you think it's wise to invest in good tow points, and rock rails and stuff first? If your gonnna run ur truck in local mudhole just to look cool, when u get stuck u really are gonna get stuck worse off then when you wouldnt' have lockers

 

[Big Red]

front lock-right/Aussie locker

I want to revive this thread in order to ask a question about dual lock-rights. For those that have a lock-right up front, how liveable is it when you are in 2 wheel drive/4 wheel drive with the 231 t-case on the street under dry pavement conditions/wet pavement. I have a dana 30 front & 29 spline 8.25 in the rear and definately want to get some lockers without spending a lot of money. My 91' xj has 7" lift with 35 mtr's, winch, etc and I use it only for off-roading as I have a 98' grand cherokee for a dd. I do however, need to be able to drive to a trail sometime for hours at a time, I live in Sacramento, Ca and mostly do stuff around Lake Tahoe. I got a Powertrax locker no-slip I believe from the previous owner, but it is missing springs and a tooth is chipped. I don't think it was installed right, or couldn't handle the 35" mtr's. What do you guys think about the Aussie locker. I have heard of people running a spool in the rear for a dd, but this seems a little to extreme, plus a lock-right, Aussie locker, etc are easy to install and do unlock when you make a turn, etc. Your advise is much appreciated.

 

[xjbmx]

I have a lockright in the front and dont notice a thing in 2wheel drive. In 4wd though it is much harder to drive, it will still steer but the wheel always wants to return to center. One time just after it rained for 2-3 days i tried to go play in the mud but when I had to steer the car it just went straight and I had a hard time getting out of there because of this. For an occasional mud pit a locker in the front is OK but solid mud it is quite a handful.

 

[Nay]

Go ARB both ends...or go home.

Rev

Whatever. Long commutes are fine for an automatic locker in the rear axle...they behave just like a limited slip on the highway. They can be a pain for running errands around town if you like to get on it around corners, but if you are willing to stay off the throttle around corners a Detroit or comparable is an excellent solution for about half the price of an ARB plus compressor (with greater reliability as well).

The Detroit is especially nice with a 242 case in the snow, because the 242 will generally keep the Detroit from locking and unlocking, but you have the traction immediately when you need it. If you add a limited slip like the tru-trac to the front, you will have an extremely versatile setup for onroad commuting in bad weather combined with offroad prowess.

Having said all of that, you don't mention a lift. I am thinking probably that you really need to spend that $700 on tires and some extra suspension flex, not lockers.

Nay

 

[Eagle]

You can lock fronts on daily drivers. As Scott Mac pointed out, a locker (Lockrite or Detroit Locker) only locks when under power. In 2WD mode it is always in "coast" mode so it isn't locked. It should be essentially transparent.

However, the lad asking the question is in Canada, and the last I heard they still get white stuff up there in the winter. I can imagine that he'll be seeing snow. I know a number of people here in Connecticut (where we also get white stuff, just not as much) who run lockers in the back and a TrueTrac limited slip in the front. They are all very happy with that setup. In 4WD I guess the TrueTrac would lockup much the same as a locker, and on turns there will be some "pushing" of the front end toward the outside of the curve. Some adjustment to driving style may be required, but I don't think it's unsafe.

 

[lpennock]

Old Wives Tale.

More hearsay, but I "heard" that a front locker will grenade a 242 if used in 4wd

any truth?

None. Ran front and rear Detroits for years. The 242 is open diff in full time mode. Now steering is a different matter, Full time 4wd with a front detroit is interesting to say the least.

 

[lpennock]

Yes, the 242 has a center open differential. I cannot comment on how a locker would work. I didn't think you could put lockers up front in daily drivers.
I wish I could get the straight answer on this, I wouldn't mind locking my front too.

A locker in the front of a daily driver is not a problem as long as you are using 2wd. If you are using Full time 4wd the steering gets very interesting and you would be better off with a truetrac.

 

[lpennock]

ok ... here's my "hear-say" on the matter... i have a spool and a lock-right i'm putting in my trail rig next month.. i have the 242 t/case.... my understanding is that i should not use the full-time setting once i install the lockright in the front.. hadnt given it much thought since its a trail rig and will never use full-time anyways... i am sure i had some literature from richmond gear about this specific application but i cant find it now... my understanding was that because the lock-right is not locked until it is given a load it would cause problems when the center diff transfered torque forward since with the lock-right in there 1 wheel will always spin the front d/shaft.. never gave it much thought since it made sense to me and like i said its a 90% trail rig.... i think this has long been a debate and it would be nice to get to the bottom of it.. maybe i'll call the manufacturer tommorow to see what they say....
mike

The reason you should not use full time 4wd has nothing to do with the 242 transfer case having a problem. It is because of the steering problems that happen when power is put to the locker. Basicly the locker drives the car rather than the driver. Been there, done that got the brown shorts.

 

[SVT]

Well after all this time I have decided on a detroit in the rear & ride it out from there, to see If I actually want/need anything in the front. I just hate to drop a lot of coin on a 8.25 or d30 & end up swapping to bigger & better in the future,even though 4.56 are next on the wish list.
"Jeep & finished don't belong in the same sentence." Quote (Dave Burns)

 

[yuppiexj]

I'm running a spool rear and open front (locker coming soon). I have driven LSD, locker, and spools. The spool is superior for the following reasons:

Price - Spools are pretty cheap.
Comfort - They don't lock and unlock on a whim (i.e. gentle turns slighty accelerating/decelerating).
Noise - They are quieter than a locker in a parking lock.
Durability - They don't break springs, pins, etc. Unlike a Detriot when you snap a shaft you only need to buy a new shaft not the matching locker that went with it.

There are downsides to a spool:
Hot parking lots always make the inside tire chirp a bit when turning. (so do lockers)
Increased tire wear - This is a small factor I cannot quantify it, but I have 24k miles on my tires and they are wearing eveny when rotated regularly.
Tracking problems - caused by variances in tire diameter. I have put 20,000 miles on my spool and have noted this ONE TIME left rear tire 15 psi right rear tire 27 psi (damn leaky vale stem)

I hope you find this diatribe helpful.

 

[lpennock]

Personnaly on a C-clip axle like the 8.25" I prefer the Powertrax no-slip over the Detroit locker. The Detoit C-Locker is a hard locker design where as the Powertrax is a soft locker. The Soft lockers drive more like a limited slip on the street even though they are full lockers. This is due to a syncro ring that keeps the locker from relocking as quick after it unlocks. Thsi gets rid of 90% of the bad locker behavior.

98 XJ D30/D44 Detroit Soft lockers in both.

 

[basalt51]

Noise - They are quieter than a locker in a parking lock.

Hot parking lots always make the inside tire chirp a bit when turning. (so do lockers)

My locker only chirps when I want it to and doesn't make any other sounds.

 

[gixj90]

I saw alot of references to the 242 as having some sort of "open-diff" inside the casing which allows for full time 4wd. I am not THE expert, but i believe the 242 (as do most full time 4x4) uses a viscous clutch to couple the front output shaft. The clutch is filled with friction plates and a silicone fluid. The fluid will solidify when heated and lockup the unit. Anyway, this offered just for clarity. :dunce:

 

[xjhm]

installed a no-slip in my 8.25 last weekend... only notice it when i pull out real hard, kinda fun in the rain... real cheap too...and installed in an hour...

 

[IntrepidXJ]

I saw alot of references to the 242 as having some sort of "open-diff" inside the casing which allows for full time 4wd. I am not THE expert, but i believe the 242 (as do most full time 4x4) uses a viscous clutch to couple the front output shaft. The clutch is filled with friction plates and a silicone fluid. The fluid will solidify when heated and lockup the unit. Anyway, this offered just for clarity. :dunce:

wrong. the 242 has a mechanical open diff.

the 249 on the grand has the viscous