new bumper for Christmas

[Wil Badger]

Ya wasn't so sure on yours thats why I said "most are built correctly",not to say yours aren't built correctly If you feel thats enough hey thats your deal.I just prefer to have them pass through and to the mounting plates. I was was more going for the point of price when I posted up all the pics with prices.But thank you for pointing that out ,I will know for future reference.

 

[red_01_xj]

Baisicly what it comes down to is safety and and willingness to take a chance....I personally would not to allow you to pull me out when I get stuck, compared to someone else who had a better built front end. Same goes for you if your too stuck I am not gonna risk it...however if yours had the pass through like mine I wouldnt doubt them for a second. And yours may work for a little tug over a log, but not for recovery.

Its not a bad looking bumper and when you get a chance post some pics of the mounting on the sides.

 

[WheelsUp]

... I know that bumper will do what I want it to do whenever I call on it. I have seen your Jeep and you do more than I ever plan on doing with my Jeep as well as half of the others that are on this sight. The other half of us use our Jeeps to play with and then use them as DD's. I don't really think that those of us that use them as DD's will ever deform the front of this bumper...

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone is bashing your bumper to just be a dick. It is a good looking bumper, but they just want to make you aware of a short-coming they see. I know you think it will hold up for what you do with your rig, but it's usually the people that just "play" every now and then that end up in the stickiest situations. If you don't do anything stupid with it, and use it as an on road rig it will be fine. Just be aware that if those tow rings ever have to be "called to duty" the bumper may let you down. As far as the price goes, it's cheaper than ARB and Warn (I've seen some warns pretty well twisted up on some DD rigs, and wouldn't recommend their bumper even if they weren't overpriced).

Ooo-Rah!

 

[a_medics_XJ]

that is exactly what i want. closest thing ive seen is the four real steel bumper in the quadratec magazine. BTW nice rig

 

[Semper Fi]

I still find it amazing that Mr. Wil, Mr. Badger, Mr Wil Badger sir, can see how my bumper is made from the pics that I have posted.
The first bumper you posted, The side protection is extra and I don't care for the way it looks on the sides anyway!
The second bumper, to squared off for me but doesn't look to bad.
Third bumper, just don't like it at all. Not saying it's poorly built, just don't care for the look.
Forth bumper, not bad but still not what I wanted. I don't care for the way it angles down from the sides.
Fifth bumper again don't like the way it angles down from the sides and I don't like the side protection on it.
The last bumper is much closer to what I have, but why is it so far down from the bottom of the grill?
Now as far as you not ass-uming anything....you are the one that has torn my bumper up and have no idea if the recovery tabs go all the way through the bumper or not. You have no idea how many bolts are holding this bumper to the Jeep. You have no idea how the bumper is mounted to the "frame" of the Jeep, now do you? You have assumed all of this, now haven't you? Yes you have because my original post was "new bumper for Christmas" not " look at the piece of shit bumper that my wife bought me for Christmas"!

I don't remember any where in the post asking you to evaluate how the bumper was made, you did that all on your own. Don't miss-understand me, I will check out the bumper and all the points you have brought up, but damn man.

You even went as far as to call my friends turds and claim that you know them... You know them because you talked to them once on the phone? I will have to say, sir, that that comment was very uncalled for!!

Now as far as them "ripping me a new one", All of the bumpers you have posted on here are cookie cutter bumpers. They were built to A Cherokee and then you order it and put it on your Jeep hoping that it fits and there are no issues, right?? Mine was built on my Jeep, a true custom built bumper to my Jeep not yours and them mass produced, understand??

They bought the lights and wired them into the bumper and Jeep for me. The light that I had on there, they rewired so they would work the way I asked. The little ones work with the low beams, the big ones with the high and are also switched. This bumper was on and off of MY jeep several times as it was being built for MY jeep.

Thanks for taking something that was supposed to be a "yeah look what I got, what did you get" type thread and turning it into a place where you felt you could call people you don't know names, and trash their product without even knowing exactly how it is really made.

You started all of this by looking at 2 pic that don't show any of what you are talking about. You trashed to damn good guys that "you know" from one call on the telephone. Why don't you also tell everyone here how you have been bashing them on another board. My wife thanks you and is glad that you like what she did for me!!!

 

[red_01_xj]

Now as far as you not ass-uming anything....you are the one that has torn my bumper up and have no idea if the recovery tabs go all the way through the bumper or not. You have no idea how many bolts are holding this bumper to the Jeep. You have no idea how the bumper is mounted to the "frame" of the Jeep, now do you?

Will you please explain or show how it mounts? How the drings mount?

 

[red_01_xj]

taken from wil on another forum

First question I have for you .

Are you talking about weld on D rings? If you are stop right there . You should never use weld on D rings on a bumper you plan on using for recovery.What you want is to use a tab that passes through the bumper to the frame tie ins.Then get yourself a clevis which must people call a D ring.

this is a clevis

this is a D ring

Using a D ring on the face of a bumper is a no no .You run the risk of the welds cracking and the D ring coming off.You run the risk of the bumper face deforming or possibly ripping allowing the D ring to go flying .

D rings have there place and the front or rear of a bumper is not one of them.

 

[bandit455]

do u have to run light covers on the street or not since their tied into wiring harnes

btw nice bumper

kno that most people here go on the guilty till proven innocent way here so unitl u post the mounting points people will bash on.

 

[beakie]

personally man I like the bumper.
I like that your wife went out and got it made for you, so the cost to have something made the way YOU wanted it can be looked past since it is custom.
I like the design, and the fact that your the only one with one, and will always be. It can look like others, but it will be your custom built bumper to your design... enjoy it.
I made my bumper, and frame mounts, I use about 7 bolts per side to mount to frame, than another 5/side to attach bumper to mounts... whopteedooo.

as for the bashing, I have no idea the strength, tensil, shear value or anything else on that topic. however I would think if anyone is worried about the 'rings' ripping off and becoming a flying hazard... wouldn't you also be worried about your winch/recovery cable snapping and whipping into something/one?
I mean the mounts aren't about to fail completely without some warning will they. If a weld fails I don't think it will fail all at once and then fly off, it may peel in one place, or the surface its mounted to may tear, but its not about to fly off and turn projectile is it? Seriously I don't know the physics, so its a comment and a question.
As for bolt count, at what point is enough, enough? I mean I use 14 to mount to the frame (the rears are 3/4" I think, whatever size the frame hole is) and then the 10 to attach the bumper to the mounts. Has anyone looked into the required bolt count so we can bash any bumper using less than that as being weak and useless as a recovery point?

Either way, nice bumper, kudo's to the wife, and if I ever need a tug I'll give ya a shout.

 

[red_01_xj]

personally man I like the bumper.
I like that your wife went out and got it made for you, so the cost to have something made the way YOU wanted it can be looked past since it is custom.
I like the design, and the fact that your the only one with one, and will always be. It can look like others, but it will be your custom built bumper to your design... enjoy it.

x2

I made my bumper, and frame mounts, I use about 7 bolts per side to mount to frame, than another 5/side to attach bumper to mounts... whopteedooo.

As for bolt count, at what point is enough, enough? I mean I use 14 to mount to the frame (the rears are 3/4" I think, whatever size the frame hole is) and then the 10 to attach the bumper to the mounts. Has anyone looked into the required bolt count so we can bash any bumper using less than that as being weak and useless as a recovery point?

I think the factory tow brackets are fine if all it is for is recovery(which is 12 when using the L brackets and 14 when using the underside brackets) , once you add a winch you will want to look more toward utilizing as many holes as possible on both sides...and if your having one built might as well as utilitze and add a steering box brace

as for the bashing, I have no idea the strength, tensil, shear value or anything else on that topic. however I would think if anyone is worried about the 'rings' ripping off and becoming a flying hazard... wouldn't you also be worried about your winch/recovery cable snapping and whipping into something/one?

Mythbusters busted the myth of the cable snapping...thats why you put a blanket or a jacket over it.

I mean the mounts aren't about to fail completely without some warning will they. If a weld fails I don't think it will fail all at once and then fly off, it may peel in one place, or the surface its mounted to may tear, but its not about to fly off and turn projectile is it? Seriously I don't know the physics, so its a comment and a question.

your right they would peel but at a quicker rate, and once they started to pull off there becomes less and less of a weld, depending on the actual recovery it might just fly off

 

[Semper Fi]

What you guys, and Wil Badger, are saying does make sence to me. I will try, if I have time, and take a pic of the brackets tomorrow. They are the same ones that came with the Custom 4x4 tow hooks, they are their brackets. If you know how many they use then you know the answer to the question, please share. I honestly don't know how the bumper is mounted to the Jeep, and neither does Wil Badger, which is my point. As for recovery, I use a strap with clevis on each end. Is there anything wrong with that type of set up that I don't know about? I will take a pic of it also.

If the setup these guys gave me when they made the bumper is like you are saying, then how would you fix it? I'm not going to buy or build another bumper, so how would you fix what I have? could you weld a plate on the inside of the bumper? would that work?

And thanks guys, Red, Beakie, bandit, and all the others. When I started this thread I never intended for it to go the way it has. Let me be the first to say I am truely sorry that it has gone this way. You guys on here are great and I have learned a lot from the sight!

Bandit455, I don't run covers on the lights. I do carry them in the Jeep, for the Hella's. The little ones I couldn't cover if I wanted to. The Hellas are on a switch, so I can turn them off if I was made to. The little ones, well I assumed that they were just like the ones from the factory that are bright as hell when they get behind you.

 

[red_01_xj]

This is how I ran mine as you can see i holes in my bumper and ran the mounts through, I then beefed up the mounting brackets so they wouldn't twist...if your are using the C4x4 brackets and still are able to mount the tow hooks, I would leave them there and use those for recovery.

Dont be sorry for the way this thread has gone...we can use this to teach others how to add the proper recovery points

here is how mine turned out

 

[Wil Badger]

Dude you seriously need to take the stick out of your ass and relax .If you read any of my posts all most all of them say "its a nice looking bumper",some even say "thats cool of your wife to buy it for you".

You need to realize and you haven't yet my initial post was about how the D rings are welded to the surface which is plain as day in both of your pictures.

You brought up the whole mounting issue not me.You asked, I showed .

As for trashing your friends and you assuming I called them,nope never called them never will.I know them from another board and have had several run ins with them about several things they have done.He posted pictures of your bumper on said board and I asked him about the surface mounted D rings and he never replied.If they charged you 550 to do everything you explained above then yes its a more reasonable price.If they supplied the the lights and did all the wiring then yes thats more man hours and deserves more of a charge.But if they charged you 550 for just the bumper then I just don't see it.

So again you have turned this thread into what it is not me.I simply stated that I didn't like the D ring mounts and why.

You keep repeatedly bring up the bumper mounting thing not me. You told me how you mounted it so clearly I didn't assume anything there.

Was this not you

before this bumper was put on my Jeep, I had a pair of tow hooks from Custom 4x4. They came with braces/brackets that run down the "frame rails" on both sides. I don't know the bolt count, but I do know that those D-rings that you don't like are mounted/welded to the bumper right where those brackets are. this bumper is in no way not beefy, and I would not be afraid to pull or be pulled out by them! It's funny that you would say that those D-rings will not hold up but you would be ok hooking to those tow hooks to winch someone out.

Oh and were in this thread did I say I would have no issue pulling somebody out with factory tow hooks.Never did.............Shit I never said I wouldn't pull you out with what you have.If I did I would use both Rings at the same time to lessen the chances and help disperse the load across both to lessen the chances of having one rip loose.

So again you keep assuming things that just aren't there.You keep trying to put words in my mouth that just clearly aren't there.

As for the pictures I posted there were not to show what is better then yours just simply showing what the price of some competitors bumpers are compared to what you paid.They are not cookie cutter bumpers made for anything they were all made to fit Cherokees and do it rather well.As for why the last one is down from the grill I have no idea,you got me.I'm not saying thats what I would use and that I liked it> I have a RIGID for a reason,because thats the style I like.I like to have as much clearance as possible and it does this.

so read it and take your time just incase it takes some time to sink in

The bumper is good looking,it seems to fit the Jeep well,its cool of your wife to go out and have it built for you,but I don't like the surface welded D-rings

taken from wil on another forum

and your point is?

I don't like weld on D-rings.they have their place and being welded to a thin bumper is not one of them.

 

[red_01_xj]

and your point is?

I don't like weld on D-rings.they have their place and being welded to a thin bumper is not one of them.

exactly that...they dont have their place on a bumper

 

[Wil Badger]

What you guys, and Wil Badger, are saying does make sence to me. I will try, if I have time, and take a pic of the brackets tomorrow. They are the same ones that came with the Custom 4x4 tow hooks, they are their brackets. If you know how many they use then you know the answer to the question, please share. I honestly don't know how the bumper is mounted to the Jeep, and neither does Wil Badger, which is my point.

I told you ..if you are using the tow hook brackets it would be a total of 14

If the setup these guys gave me when they made the bumper is like you are saying, then how would you fix it? I'm not going to buy or build another bumper, so how would you fix what I have? could you weld a plate on the inside of the bumper? would that work?

If you wanted to do it right I would cut those D rings off .Cut holes on both sides of the bumper to allow a tab to pass through and weld it to both the inside and outside .It wouldn't be hard and it would make the bumper bullet proof at that point.

 

[Wil Badger]

exactly that...they dont have their place on a bumper

gotcha........

and thank you for agreeing with me

 

[matt1994xj]

i cant believe there is such a big deal about d rings and tabs. its a jeep. do you really see anything ripping the d ring surface weld off the bumper. sure a tab welded on the front and the back are stronger but is it necessary? has anyone done any calculations or tests? you know that 3/16" bumper isnt as strong as my 1" thick bumper.

i made my bpe's out of 1/4" steel and used tabs and welds to hold it together. This makes them stronger than the ones made out of 3/16" steel but so what.

Nice looking bumper man.

 

[Wil Badger]

The last time I was in Paragon I had a friend who hung his 3/4 ton Ford on a good section of the frame

I had to snatch block twice.From my rear winch mount to a tree then back to another snatch block on a chain strung between both my rear tabs.

These tabs were both 1" thick and the rear bumper was 1/4" square stock.

That 1" tab bent over and deformed the 1/4" square stock.Now would you want to try that with some surface mounted D rings.I sure wouldn't

 

[woodbutcher]

I tie down heavy equipment to those types of D-rings all day long and have never had one or a weld brake that is what they are designed for is to bear a load .
Now grant it that the bumper may not be strong enough for that type of mount it would take some time of continuous loading for it to give IMHO.
Sean

 

[Wil Badger]

I tie down heavy equipment to those types of D-rings all day long and have never had one or a weld brake that is what they are designed for is to bear a load .
Now grant it that the bumper may not be strong enough for that type of mount it would take some time of continuous loading for it to give IMHO.
Sean

Yep i use them as well

There great for static loads ,which is putting a load on it and it staying the same.They are not as good for yanking on.