New build advice needed.

[WolverineLiving]

Hello everyone, new to the site, glad to be here and I'm hoping to get some advice from those with more experience then myself. I've dirt biked, four wheeled in pick-ups and buggied through the Michigan woods and sand dunes my whole life but never did so in a Jeep of any kind. I'm now old and fat, and the thought of crawling in and out of buggies or SxS's and freezing my butt off after crashing through water and mud doesn't really appeal to be anymore. That being said, I still want to off road, camp and travel challenging trails through the woods. Most of the guys my age that I used to off road with no longer do it, so I want to build something to wheel with my younger buddies who use SxS's.

That lead me to a XJ. They are compact, available and there seems to be tons of options to mod them. My end goal is to have a modded, lifted very capable off road machine that can basically go where the SxS's go. The SxS's I'd be wheeling with are the bigger, wider XP 1200 turbo types, so their not trying to squeeze through 54" gates to get on the snowmobile trails. So my questions are...

1) Is there any specific year Cherokee to use as a base that has advantages over other years?

2) Will the 4.0 be enough modded to provide the power or am I better off swapping it? I have a GenIII Hemi or could LS swap it if need be. I plan on going between 36-40" tires and want it to have plenty of power.

3) I will be axle swapping it with a Dana 60 front and possibly rear. I have a like new Dana 60 out of a brand new "D" series Dodge I can use in the rear. I've read the Ford Super Duty fronts seem to be preferred so I'll search for one. Does it make sense to use the Dana rear I already own or sell it and get something else? What year Super Duty is best for the front?

4) I'm going to have to design something that will allow me to get my big ass in and out of this thing, anyone have any suggestions other then the fountain of youth and weight watchers?ig:

I'll start with that for now and will ask more newb quetions as time goes by :yap: I'm a welder/fabricator so I welcome the modding, just don't want to make unwise decisions and have to pay for and do things twice. Thanks in advance for any help!:cheers:

 

[Goose_XJ88]

I made this post on another thread but if you want it done right the first time and want it to last, here is my list.


-Jeepcables battery cable upgrade
-K-Suspension (or DIY) E-fan switch override
-Putco Headlight harness
-Amazon LED Trucklight lookalikes ($100)
-Gojeep gas tank mod http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoFuelTank.htm
or ZJ Gas tank (or combo and get 25gallons) https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1131307

-frame stiffeners front to back (For longevity)
-Steering box brace (Ironmanfab, Boostwerks, or BadDadFab, Alpine Peak Precision)
-2x6 sliders (More clearance than Traditional sliders)

-Then choose your suspension, Bumpers and skid plates.
Stinky Fab has a lot of good stuff along with the manufacturers that I mentioned above.

Builder parts look at Ruff Stuff, Total Metal Innovations, Barns 4WD.

 

[srb531]

well #1 a jeep xj is way bigger then any sxs , they will go places you will never fit. and if they dont thats because you are cramping there style. just like atvs cant follow dirt bikes. not trying to be negative , just realistic.

 

[Anak]

If your SxS friends are indeed the large, long ones and they are not running the narrow trails you may be able to wheel with them, but you are not going to be successful if you run full width axles. Put some thought into how you plan to narrow those Super Duty axles.

Since you are planning to go big you will indeed find the stock 4.0L is not really up to the task, especially if you are trying to hang with the SxS crowd. My vote would be to LS swap it since there are already aftermarket mounts and headers available (from at least Novak) and there are plenty of folks who can offer their experience should you have questions. I am not aware of either the aftermarket support or the range of experience for the Hemi. I believe there is at least one very nicely built Comanche running the Hemi, but that is on the order of a SEMA build. You will need to do some research on the pros and cons of those options, but I think you will find the LS swap is the easiest path.

And if you are going to do a motor swap then your choice of chassis becomes a bit different from the average XJ shopper. Generally speaking the H.O. 4.0L is the most sought after vehicle, but if you are not going to keep the 4.0L you are probably better off with a Renix era starting point. The Renix era XJ will be more AMC influenced and less Chrysler influenced. That is a good thing. But you probably do not want to go as far back as 1986 and the V-6 versions as they have a shorter hood line, thus less engine bay room. The extra length added for the inline 6 will probably serve you well.

Those are my initial thoughts.

ETA: Renix era means you would be looking for an '87-'90 XJ.

 

[Evan03]

I do think a xj even on 60s will run most places the big toys go. It wont run as fast in the rough stuff but can however yo will have nearly what one of those toys cost invested in suspension.

Headlight harness yes. Truck lights yes. Cables probly just get harbor freight hydraulic tool and build them to your application. I dont think id spend money on Fans. Ls swap no. Youl have plenty of grunt with 4.88 - 5.30 gears.

2x6 sliders yes 2x8 work better for protection but are harder to get in and out.

Stinky fab long arm and wj steering. Lift umm id say 3-4" tires dont need to be bigger than 35s. 37s isnt providing enough over 35s. Now 40s maybe but you start loseing the grunt the gears provide.

Tuned shocks for your application. Accutune, downsouth motor sports and the like can go over your exspectatians and wants along with your rigs actual weight to set up shocks to make you grin ear to ear.

Proper geometry is a must along with minimal lift. This is fastest way to build a well working rig a Bonus is its easier to get in. Yes youl have to do some fair amount of fender trimmen or I mean hacking to make this plan come together.

Call stinky fab they can help you out alot on the phone and give you a path to go on. Ive actually found I get more info from phone calls than the internet garbage that Trends to float around.

When on the phone take notes. This helps you weed through thst internet garage when researching thecresearch will bring more questions for future phone calls

A front full locker along with a rear locker or possibly street friendly caugh limited slip.

I agree with frame stifners through out along with atleastva transfercase skid and steering brace.

Keep in mind you could probly hand me 20k and I could build it in my Vision of what I think you want. But will it be what you want?

Take your time research drive the thing and learn what you want. The dang thing may work as it with grippy tires and recovery safety gear on board

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[Phil]

Keep in mind you could probly hand me 20k, along with the chassis, engine, transmission, transfer case, axles, wheels, and tires, and I could build it in my Vision of what I think you want. But will it be what you want?

Don’t underestimate the cost of all the nickel and dime stuff in a new build.

Driveshafts. All that steel. Brakes. You’re probably not going to be happy running one ton brakes through the stock XJ master cylinder. Bolts. LS computer work. Radiator and hoses. Hydraulic assist steering. Fluids for every single system!

If I were going to jump feet first into an XJ build, I’d do the cookbook XJ on 31s-33s that everyone used to do. 4.5” lift, full skids and sliders, decent rear axle, alloy shafts up front, 4.56s, upgraded steering linkage. That’s probably a $20k build on day one, everything in the garage at home except gears, including buying the 1998-1999 4.0L 4x4 vehicle.

 

[Anak]

Don’t underestimate the cost of all the nickel and dime stuff in a new build.

All good points.

Add to that inflation.

Every time I buy something I am amazed at how much higher the price is now compared to what it was last time I bought the same (or comparable) item.

 

[WolverineLiving]

I made this post on another thread but if you want it done right the first time and want it to last, here is my list.


-Jeepcables battery cable upgrade
-K-Suspension (or DIY) E-fan switch override
-Putco Headlight harness
-Amazon LED Trucklight lookalikes ($100)
-Gojeep gas tank mod http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoFuelTank.htm
or ZJ Gas tank (or combo and get 25gallons) https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1131307

-frame stiffeners front to back (For longevity)
-Steering box brace (Ironmanfab, Boostwerks, or BadDadFab, Alpine Peak Precision)
-2x6 sliders (More clearance than Traditional sliders)

-Then choose your suspension, Bumpers and skid plates.
Stinky Fab has a lot of good stuff along with the manufacturers that I mentioned above.

Builder parts look at Ruff Stuff, Total Metal Innovations, Barns 4WD.

Thanks fpr the tips, appreciate it!

 

[WolverineLiving]

well #1 a jeep xj is way bigger then any sxs , they will go places you will never fit. and if they dont thats because you are cramping there style. just like atvs cant follow dirt bikes. not trying to be negative , just realistic.

Hey, thanks for your feedback. I too felt the same way at first, but after measuring my friends SxS I found it's as wide as a Cherokee. It's lighter and nimbler without a doubt, but these guys aren't crashing woops and racing hard through the fire trails we'll be using mostly.

 

[WolverineLiving]

If your SxS friends are indeed the large, long ones and they are not running the narrow trails you may be able to wheel with them, but you are not going to be successful if you run full width axles. Put some thought into how you plan to narrow those Super Duty axles.

Since you are planning to go big you will indeed find the stock 4.0L is not really up to the task, especially if you are trying to hang with the SxS crowd. My vote would be to LS swap it since there are already aftermarket mounts and headers available (from at least Novak) and there are plenty of folks who can offer their experience should you have questions. I am not aware of either the aftermarket support or the range of experience for the Hemi. I believe there is at least one very nicely built Comanche running the Hemi, but that is on the order of a SEMA build. You will need to do some research on the pros and cons of those options, but I think you will find the LS swap is the easiest path.

And if you are going to do a motor swap then your choice of chassis becomes a bit different from the average XJ shopper. Generally speaking the H.O. 4.0L is the most sought after vehicle, but if you are not going to keep the 4.0L you are probably better off with a Renix era starting point. The Renix era XJ will be more AMC influenced and less Chrysler influenced. That is a good thing. But you probably do not want to go as far back as 1986 and the V-6 versions as they have a shorter hood line, thus less engine bay room. The extra length added for the inline 6 will probably serve you well.

Those are my initial thoughts.

ETA: Renix era means you would be looking for an '87-'90 XJ.

There is no doubt that the LS path is the one of least resistance. A whole world of aftermarket parts exists for them, and they make great power for a little money. That being said, I have a fresh GenIII Hemi and found that adapters are available so if I decide to V-8 swap it I'll probably use the Hemi.

Regarding the axles, I don't think it's a problem using the wider axles as my intention isn't really to try and match their wide open trail performance and to keep pace with them if they're hammering down, more like running in the rear and acting as the cooler and gear hauler and the role as a support vehicle that I can still have fun in.

Great advice concerning the different years, it will help me to choose wisely. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond with your informative post, I really do appreciate it!

 

[WolverineLiving]

I do think a xj even on 60s will run most places the big toys go. It wont run as fast in the rough stuff but can however yo will have nearly what one of those toys cost invested in suspension.

Headlight harness yes. Truck lights yes. Cables probly just get harbor freight hydraulic tool and build them to your application. I dont think id spend money on Fans. Ls swap no. Youl have plenty of grunt with 4.88 - 5.30 gears.

2x6 sliders yes 2x8 work better for protection but are harder to get in and out.

Stinky fab long arm and wj steering. Lift umm id say 3-4" tires dont need to be bigger than 35s. 37s isnt providing enough over 35s. Now 40s maybe but you start loseing the grunt the gears provide.

Tuned shocks for your application. Accutune, downsouth motor sports and the like can go over your exspectatians and wants along with your rigs actual weight to set up shocks to make you grin ear to ear.

Proper geometry is a must along with minimal lift. This is fastest way to build a well working rig a Bonus is its easier to get in. Yes youl have to do some fair amount of fender trimmen or I mean hacking to make this plan come together.

Call stinky fab they can help you out alot on the phone and give you a path to go on. Ive actually found I get more info from phone calls than the internet garbage that Trends to float around.

When on the phone take notes. This helps you weed through thst internet garage when researching thecresearch will bring more questions for future phone calls

A front full locker along with a rear locker or possibly street friendly caugh limited slip.

I agree with frame stifners through out along with atleastva transfercase skid and steering brace.

Keep in mind you could probly hand me 20k and I could build it in my Vision of what I think you want. But will it be what you want?

Take your time research drive the thing and learn what you want. The dang thing may work as it with grippy tires and recovery safety gear on board

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

You guys are amazing with the awesome, comprehensive replies! As I mentioned in a post above, my intention was never to be able to be able to keep pace with the SxS's hammering through twisty fire trials so your comments regarding this are spot on.

I also agree with you 100 percent regarding keeping the vehicle as low as possible while still having the travel and articulation I desire. I'm fine with tastefully butchering the body to facilitate tucking the tires in tight while flexing hard.

Thanks again for taking the time, the information is greatly appreciated!

 

[WolverineLiving]

Don’t underestimate the cost of all the nickel and dime stuff in a new build.

Driveshafts. All that steel. Brakes. You’re probably not going to be happy running one ton brakes through the stock XJ master cylinder. Bolts. LS computer work. Radiator and hoses. Hydraulic assist steering. Fluids for every single system!

If I were going to jump feet first into an XJ build, I’d do the cookbook XJ on 31s-33s that everyone used to do. 4.5” lift, full skids and sliders, decent rear axle, alloy shafts up front, 4.56s, upgraded steering linkage. That’s probably a $20k build on day one, everything in the garage at home except gears, including buying the 1998-1999 4.0L 4x4 vehicle.

I feel ya on the deep, dark black hole to throw money down, I've owned boats and race cars so I'm experienced in these situations :laugh3: I may bomb around in it with modest upgrades first, seems like a sensible way to figure out which direction to go.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[WolverineLiving]

All good points.

Add to that inflation.

Every time I buy something I am amazed at how much higher the price is now compared to what it was last time I bought the same (or comparable) item.

LOL, my wife is constantly telling me I'm living in the 80's!!

 

[Hypoid]

4) I'm going to have to design something that will allow me to get my big ass in and out of this thing, anyone have any suggestions other then the fountain of youth and weight watchers?ig:

:cheers:

Shop for a 2 door XJ. :thumbup:

 

[RCP Phx]

Last summer I had a new Razor that was all tricked out try to keep up with me, about half way thru the trail we had to rescue him because he smoked the clutch on his $25k toy!!!

 

[WolverineLiving]

Shop for a 2 door XJ. :thumbup:

Hmmm, is there something inherent with the two door that makes it easier to get in and out of?

 

[WolverineLiving]

Last summer I had a new Razor that was all tricked out try to keep up with me, about half way thru the trail we had to rescue him because he smoked the clutch on his $25k toy!!!

They seem to eat $$$$ belts at a terrifying rate as well :doh:

 

[Goose_XJ88]

Hmmm, is there something inherent with the two door that makes it easier to get in and out of?

The doors are much wider to accommodate for people to get into the back seat. Down side is that with the larger door, they are much heavier and more prone to hinge failure. Just something else to keep an eye on and weld in more supports/reinforcements.

 

[WolverineLiving]

The doors are much wider to accommodate for people to get into the back seat. Down side is that with the larger door, the are much heavier and more prone to hinge failure. Just something else to keep an eye on and weld in more supports/reinforcements.

Wow, I hadn't considered that, that's a great piece of information. Thank you very much for the heads up!

 

[smokeyyank]

Or you just find a MJ.....