MY ANGER IS GROWING TO HATRED!

joe_peters

joe_peters

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Grants Pass, OryGun
"The Defendant then instructed Mr. Aviles to hand the firearm back to the straw purchaser because he had 'bought' the firearm"

That should of been the end of the case right there.
 
That's fawkin ridiculous. How the hell did they come to that verdict?

By their logic... if get t-boned in an intersection by someone running a red, the accident is my fault because I should have known he was gonna run it.
 
It was a bad call on the dealer's part. Gun sales is not an area to play around in. I used to work for a sporting goods store and was in a position where I could sell guns. If I had even the slightest inkling that something was below the boards, I had to refuse the sale. If I didn't, I would be charged, the manager would be charged, and the company would be fined something like $50,000, per incident. I don't recall if the background check done out here is a federal requirement or a CA requirement, but I'm pretty sure it goes through the DOJ. If it's a federal requirement, the straw man should've been found to be ineligible to purchase.

Sounds to me like the guy screwed up and is paying the consequences.

EDIT: I don;t know how background checks apply at gun shows either, but all the more reason to be extra cautious when making the sale. And the straw man should be prosecuted as it is a crime to purchase a gun for a prohibited person. There's no reason he shouldn't be prosecuted. There should be no prosecutorial discretion in a case like this.
 
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"Agents witnessed the Defendant (Copeland) negotiate a price for a handgun with Hipolito Aviles, who then handed cash to a second Hispanic male, who then handed Aviles' cash and his own identification to the defendant," the prosecution said in court documents.
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Yeah, then there's this part. Long story short was that none of us were there. Get all bent and twisted if it makes you feel better...
 
Right or wrong, the seller is serving a jail sentence.

The OUTRAGE is that the buyer and the straw purchaser both committed felonies and didn't get charged. And they won't be deported either.
 
ECKSJAY said:
Yeah, then there's this part. Long story short was that none of us were there. Get all bent and twisted if it makes you feel better...
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Agreed but I don't think this eliminates "reasonable doubt" I've sold a few cars where other people haggle for the buyer. None have borrowed money from the other though :P.


Is there a law saying you can't borrow money to buy a gun? Maybe the seller wasn't paying attention during the cash transfer. Alot of possibilities but I think him telling the guy to give the weapon back is enough "reasonable doubt" for me.
 
tbburg said:
Right or wrong, the seller is serving a jail sentence.

The OUTRAGE is that the buyer and the straw purchaser both committed felonies and didn't get charged. And they won't be deported either.
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Are you kidding me you would charge an Illegal? throw dora the explorer in jail? omg
 
tbburg said:
Right or wrong, the seller is serving a jail sentence.

The OUTRAGE is that the buyer and the straw purchaser both committed felonies and didn't get charged. And they won't be deported either.
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Uh...


Aviles, the undocumented immigrant, was charged with possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, served a little over six months in prison and was deported on July 8, U.S. Attorney's Office spokesman Daryl Fields said.
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My bad. I read about this from another source that said the buyers weren't charged. 'Guess I was half right.
 
tbburg said:
My bad. I read about this from another source that said the buyers weren't charged. 'Guess I was half right.
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The actual buyer ("straw man") hasn't been charged as far as I can tell. IMO if they were gonna pick ONE to charge they should go after him.
 
AIbandit said:
Agreed but I don't think this eliminates "reasonable doubt" I've sold a few cars where other people haggle for the buyer. None have borrowed money from the other though :P.
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A car is not a firearm.

Is there a law saying you can't borrow money to buy a gun? Maybe the seller wasn't paying attention during the cash transfer. Alot of possibilities but I think him telling the guy to give the weapon back is enough "reasonable doubt" for me.
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Well yeah, there are laws against straw purchasing, which is what was alleged, charged, proven, and convicted. The event was witnessed as testified, the evidence was presented, and a jury of the defendant's peers found it to be enough to convict. It doesn't get any more clear than that. This isn't an 'alleged' act that you typically see shown in the papers where charges were filed and it hasn't even been through the court yet... Given the information in the article and knowing the law, it's obvious he knowingly sold the firearm to someone buying it for another who wasn't eligible. AKA: "straw purchase".
 
I know I've been learning from fox news, can you tell?
 
ECKSJAY said:
EVERY news outlet does it. I prefer raw AP or Reuters before the fanatic clowns get hold of it.
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I know I usually end up on the fox news site though. It drives me insane at a must slower rate than msnbc.
 
Note in the article that MULTIPLE WITNESSES disputed that any money was passed between the "straw" purchaser and the other illegal. THE BATFE AGENTS LIED UNDER OATH--as usual.

Anybody posting here actually been to a gun show with a friend? Thought about buying a gun? You and your friend BOTH looked at it? You BOTH handled it? The charges are absurd.

This is why the people at the gun shows around here are always on the lookout for BATFE agents and will shout out that they found them to the whole crowd. You should see them run for the door--its hilarious!
 
joe_peters said:
Note in the article that MULTIPLE WITNESSES disputed that any money was passed between the "straw" purchaser and the other illegal. THE BATFE AGENTS LIED UNDER OATH--as usual.

Anybody posting here actually been to a gun show with a friend? Thought about buying a gun? You and your friend BOTH looked at it? You BOTH handled it? The charges are absurd.
Click to expand...

The seller and the third party negotiated the price, the second party made the straw purchase, and the witnesses had enough to charge and convict the seller for knowingly selling the firearm to a prohibited person. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? They weren't merely LOOKING AT firearms, there was an actual, illegal purchase/sale made here. Money doesn't have to change hands because a straw purchase isn't all monetary, it's about providing a prohibited person with an item they otherwise wouldn't be able to purchase themselves.

This is why the people at the gun shows around here are always on the lookout for BATFE agents and will shout out that they found them to the whole crowd. You should see them run for the door--its hilarious!
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No, this doesn't happen and I'm calling "bullshit".
 
http://ramparts360.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/ (scroll down to the APD/AFT ariticle--this "selling to an illegal" scam using "pet" illegals with federally provided false ID is common practice in the border states)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=487901

http://proliberty.com/observer/20050703.htm

http://www.survival-enterprises.com/renogunshow.html


http://beforeitsnews.com/story/161/...llegal_Alien_With_Texas_Driver_s_License.html

And yes, it has happened at shows in Medford, OR and in Grants Pass, OR. So, BS right back to you.
 
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