Marines shoot "scrapper" on base

Darky

Darky

NAXJA Forum User
Location
29 Palms, CA
I apologize for the all caps, but that's how it came and I ain't retyping it.
KCDZ-FM.com said:
Marine Opens Fire On Suspected Scrap Metal Thieves On Base
A suspected scrap metal thief was injured after a Marine opened fire on the vehicle he was in as it fled the 29 Palms Base. Base spokesman, Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Cox, said marines from the Provost Marshal's Special Reaction Team responded to a call about suspected scrappers in a rugged and isolated training area near the Western border of the base Tuesday morning. Cox said after the first two marines arrived on scene via helicopter, one Marine apparently attempted to disable the scrappers' vehicle by shooting at it with a military assault rifle. Shots from the Marine's M4 rifle struck the vehicle, passenger Mark Hasty was injured by flying shrapnel and fell out of the fleeing vehicle. He was airlifted to Desert Hospital in Palm Springs and treat and released that evening. County Sheriffs Captain Don Miller said deputies, assisting military authorities, located and contacted the vehicle and driver identified as Gary Barnes of Landers, and provided that information to Naval Criminal Investigative Services. Cox said two Marines, including the one who fired the shots, have been relieved of duty pending an investigation into the shooting. Cox said the two scrappers, Gary Barnes and Mark Hasty, face federal charges of trespassing and larceny of government property.
Click to expand...

What do y'all think?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm gonna be damn careful the next time I go out to JV or Giant Rock.
 
Darky said:
I apologize for the all caps, but that's how it came and I ain't retyping it.

What do y'all think?
Click to expand...

Lets see. Tresspassed on a military installation. Got shot at.


I would *EXPECT* to be shot at if I trespassed on a military installation, particularly during a time of war.
 
Y'know, if I were the marine I'd have tried to resolve the thing without gunfire - perhaps a road block of some sort. Something that isn't going to kill anyone (I know - nobody died in this incident)
That being said : the guys were trespassing on a military base during a time of high military activity. The soldier didn't KNOW that they weren't planting an IED. He didn't KNOW that they didn't have a car full of explosives, hoping to plow it into the nearest hummer loaded with troops asking him to stop. So - they took the safest course of action FOR THEMSELVES and attempted to disable the vehicle.

I could argue both ways - unnecessary endangerment of lives OR tough-minded practicality from America's Best.
 
There's a legal principle (that seems to have been forgotten of late...) that my wife told me about - "but for your actions."

You sneak into someone's back yard, open the gate around their pool, and swim. You get hurt. You sue. "But for your actions" - if you hadn't broken in, you wouldn't have gotten hurt. Suit Invalid.

You break into a Marine base (Hell, a Marine training base! You know there's all sorts of stuff flying around there...) and get shot at. "But for your actions" - if you hadn't broken the perimeter, you wouldn't have been in a position to be shot at, you wouldn't have been shot, your vehicle wouldn't have been shot, and you'd be just fine (as far as this goes. They're probably dim enough to get themselves hurt some other way.)

Criminal charges of trespass and larceny stick. Injury lawsuit invalid. Problem solved.

I had that happen to me once a dozen or so years ago - some kid pulled a knife on me, I clobbered him, then waited for the cops. They took him in, took the report, and got witnesses. (OK - I didn't hit him at all. Looked like the cinderblock wall hit him pretty hard, tho...)

Kid had me hauled into court for A&B charges. Judge called witnesses - they said he'd pulled a knife first, without reason. I didn't even have to testify. Hell, I didn't even hire a lawyer - told them to find me one. I'm not going to fork over a thousand dollars for a couple hours' work (and ended up defending myself. Yes, I was that sure.)

Judge actually used those words - "But for your actions, you'd not have been endangered, and you'd not have been assaulted. I find you in contempt of this Court, and you shall serve thirty additional days' sentence to begin with the end of the one you are currently serving. Charges against the Defendant are dropped entirely, and he may go freely."

Sometimes, gang, the system does work the way it's supposed to!
 
Deadly force is authorized to prevent theft of materials relating to national security, prevent escape, prevent harm to self or others. This incident involves two. The people were fleeing. They were stealing scrap from unexploded ordinance, casings, etc. Why were they stealing it? Most likely to turn in at the scrap yard for money, but it could also be to scavenge to explosives out of the ordinance. Read the second article I posted. Someone stole an old missile they found on base. It didn't go off when it was fired, but it did when the guys got it home. Shoot to disable the vehicle, catch them, arrest them and ensure they have no dangerous materials on them, then turn em over to the Sheriff's. If they get hit by shrapnel from the rounds, too bad, shouldn't have been there.
 
I think the Marine deserves a commendation. Too bad the guy didn't die. Fawk thieves. End Rant.
 
You sneak into someone's back yard, open the gate around their pool, and swim. You get hurt. You sue. "But for your actions" - if you hadn't broken in, you wouldn't have gotten hurt. Suit Invalid.
Your in cal, this is the place that sues for falling throw your sky light.. The owner of a store around the corner was being rob when he pulled his gun out an killed the man robbing him, his family got 2.5 mil from store owner..Yes the robber did shoot at the owner first.. " But for your actions " don't work here.... This was in palm springs about 6 years ago..
 
Hell they should've just brought the chopper down in front of the vehicle and fired a few warning shot's from the minigun. I bet they would have stopped then.
 
scottmcneal said:
You sneak into someone's back yard, open the gate around their pool, and swim. You get hurt. You sue. "But for your actions" - if you hadn't broken in, you wouldn't have gotten hurt. Suit Invalid.
Your in cal, this is the place that sues for falling throw your sky light.. The owner of a store around the corner was being rob when he pulled his gun out an killed the man robbing him, his family got 2.5 mil from store owner..Yes the robber did shoot at the owner first.. " But for your actions " don't work here.... This was in palm springs about 6 years ago..
Click to expand...

Yeah - I know. CA is fawked, the 9th Circuit court is fawked, and we need to flush them both out. I'm in CA - I've seen the stupidity firsthand...
 
We've had guard and reserve members killed taking home unexploded stuff, one guy from NY's 42nd in Manhattan found a 155HE round, he stuck it in a duffle bag and when they were loading out on sunday morning to head back to NYC he threw it in the back of a 5ton. It went off, ever see a 155 round go. The truck was gone as were 20+ members.
Ft Drum we had dumpster divers going for aluminum cans, 5 cents apiece deposit on them in NY state.
I never ran into anyone stupid enough to go into an impact area though. We did have on guy that walked across the bridge over a river that was the border of the one at Ft Drum, he was jogging and ran into a tow wire, he had a much wider smile after that till they put the 80 some odd stitches in his face.
Guess I'll have be careful when I go grab a rear pintle off one of the 1/4 ton mutts destined for the impact area next time I'm at Ft Dix.
 
I figure it's just like running from the cops, you're taking you life into your own hands. Dumbass is just lucky that it wasn't shooting to kill...
 
They should be happy that the Marine was a good shot.

Dumbasses, get a real job!
 
I think they got their ROE's a little confused...Iraq/Afghan, sure, here...thats questionable. But hey, they acted with purpose and violence of action so bravo.

If the area they were gaurding was a containing live ordinace then they acted appropriatly, if it was just a simple perimeter roving guard, that raises some issues.

Funny story though: I was talking to a SF guy here on post and we were talking smack about Marines. Not the point: He told about a time in Ramadi when they were attached to Marines. They were on a rooftop and all of a sudden the whole section started lighting up a building about 400yrds out. The SF guy asked one of the privates what he was shooting at and he said "I don't know but he's shooting" pointing to the guy next to him. He ended up walking all the way down the line to find out what they were all shooting at and nobody had a clue. Anyway, I thought it was funny. :yelclap:
 
Great job!

If we don't let these losers know we maen bizness, they won't stop.

I like it.
 
This sounds vaguely familliar....

In April of '05 Edwards County(Texas) Deputy Gilmer Hernandez pulled over a Suburban at 11:30 at night. The SUV was full of illegal aliens. When Hernadez got to the drivers side door, the driver turned the steering wheel hard left and gassed it in an attempt to run over the Deputy with the rear wheel.

Hernandez drew and fired three rounds at the tires. One round hit and disabled the SUV. All but 1 of the illegals fled. The one that stayed had been hit in the lip with a bullet fragment. From the report it sounds like the hole was likened to that of a lip peircing. It was later found out that another of the illegals was hit in the arm with shrapnel.

Long story short, the coyote and his guide got away. None of the illegals were charged with any crimes even though a loaded .40 cal S&W pistol was found in the SUV.

Deputy Hernandez was arrested and tried and found guilty. Hernandez was sentenced to one year plus one day in federal prison for criminally violating the civil rights of the illegal aliens.........

Later Maricela Rodriquez-Garcia and Candio Garcia-Perez, the two illegal immigrants who were injured, filed a lawsuit against Sheriff Don G. Letsinger of Rocksprings, Texas and Deputy Gillermo Hernandez for $1.5 million.
They settled out of court for $100,000........

http://www.freegilmer.com/articles.html
 
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