Lighters banned on airlines

[RichP]

He was a MoH receipient and the gate gestapo's had no idea what a MoH looked like, thought it was 'dangerous' looking and confiscated it, stopped just a hair short of arresting him. He was on his way to give a talk about about his military experience and such...
Of course I can see their point, somebody who is awarded a MoH could be considered a dangerous person having taken, like all of us prior service people, the oath to protect against those enemies both within and without...

 

[Eagle]

It was brought about by that idiot from England who had explosives in his sneakers and his lighter failed to work so he then tried matches and almost succeeded. They should have taken him out on the tarmac after landing and THEN lit them, while they were on his feet. No check that, then he'd be collecting disability and file a big lawsuit...and probably win...

Yeah, I heard a radio announcer today say that was the reason.

The problem I have with that is, that incident was more than two years ago. The trial is over and the guy has long since been sent to prison. If that was the reason, wouldn't it have made sense to ban them as quickly as possible after the event, rather than wait more than TWO YEARS?

 

[Eagle]

I don't remember his name exactly, but there was a Medal of Honor recipient that was told he could not wear his Medal on board because of the pointy ends.

Just like what was said...conditioning for National IDs...the balck helicopters have already arrived!

Fergie

That was GENERAL Joe Foss (now deceased), and at the time he was something like 82 years old. It just goes to demonstrate the complete lack of mental capacity of the screeners, and of the TSA in general.

 

[Fergie]

That was GENERAL Joe Foss (now deceased), and at the time he was something like 82 years old. It just goes to demonstrate the complete lack of mental capacity of the screeners, and of the TSA in general.

Thanks for the name. I looked it up after the post to make sure as I felt embarassed for not knowing.

Fergie

 

[IH8RDS]

It only takes a relatively small amount of explosives to bring down a plane. Remember Richard Reid tried to light his gym shoes on fire with a match book. Also, Al-Queda had a plot to use lighters and wristwatch batteries to bring down several commercial airliners over the pacific prior to 9-11. I don't think we are being snowed by the goverment on this one.

That party-line said...I don't understand why there is not a system to check this stuff at the gate and pick it up when deplaning? The costs would probably be incredilbly burdensome and passed on to all travelers is my only thought preventing it.

The last time I flew home from ROK on a MAC charter, the marines flying on-board carried their weapons, but a part of the mechanism had been removed and collected prior to boarding. They still had their bayonets though.

On a pre 9/11 flight to Kuwait We carried our M-16's (assembled) on a commercial flight. You should of seen us all going through the metal detectors. The look on the people's faces was PRICELESS.

 

[BruteXJ]

I've worked for the airlines (and dealt with the TSA since their infancy) for a turbulent 5+ years now, so if I may:

The lighter prohibition will go away in under a year. All it takes is one Senator who won't give up his Colibri to light his cigars. The reason for the delay in reaction to the Richard Reid (shoe-bomber) scenario is simple-beauracracy.

Don't blame the people at the checkpoint (unless they're a$$hats) they don't make the rules, they know most of the rules are rediculous, but it's their jobs. Make them more miserable, and they will return the favor. Treat them like humans, and you'll get treated the same.

Now, the real issue:

What the Department of Homeland Security hasn't yet realized, but almost every airline and security employee has, is that the ONLY realistic threat to commercial aviation these days is explosives. It has been over 18 months, if not two years or more since any person has attempted violence onboard any commercial aircraft anywhere in the world. Not one single attempt at violence onboard a commercial airline has succeeded since 9-11. The last incident I can recall was onboard a Quantas Airlines flight from Sydney, Australia. A passenger became violent with a flight attendant and nearby passengers.....and was quickly beaten nearly to death by his fellow passengers. Even in the instance of a gun or knife smuggled aboard, passengers now know the consequences of inaction. Their lives are at stake, and they WILL take action. The door to the flight deck is locked, and will NOT be opened during flight, unless one of the pilots on board is an FAA approved FFDO, armed himself against terrorist actions. (I've my own opinions on this, but I'll let it go for now).

Were it not for the fact that some passengers get "innocently" drunk and a bit rowdy, I'd reccomend that all passengers be allowed to carry their weapon of choice, provided that any firearms be loaded with "SABO" rounds, which will not pierce the pressurized skin of the aircraft. For now, I think it will suffice that if anybody stands up with a boxcutter, they may as well put it to their own throat.

P.S. Don't mention the Russian crashes. The Russians have a history of building bad knock-offs of Boeing aircraft and blaming anyone but themselves when they fail.

 

[TC]

Just curious, what happens to all the banned stuff thats collected from the passengers? Theres got to be a shipload of neat confiscated goodies that people have had to part with. I'm guessing it all is required to be destroyed. TC

 

[BruteXJ]

It's destroyed.

 

[Grzz701]

Thats a shame. They could just put it up for auction like the customs has been doing for years. Used to get deals at those auctions.
Mark

 

[BruteXJ]

Yeah, but people already hate the TSA. If they thought they were making a buck off of their confiscated scissors and knives, they'd have a fit.

 

[Boatwrench]

"It has been over 18 months, if not two years or more since any person has attempted violence onboard any commercial aircraft anywhere in the world"

Nope...it was within th last two nights. Plane diverted to Denver as a fight broke out between two passengers. Flight attendant injured. Read it here at work.

Those TSA folks at the gates who confiscated the MOH are just like the Baltimore cop who didn't realize that a $2 bill was legal tender. Moron. it takes longer to explain to them, even with the authorization letter from SEC Mineda, that traveling under orders on military business, (and sometimes in uniform) that I'm exempt from secondary screening.

Tom

 

[BruteXJ]

I suppose I should have been more specific in regard to "attempts at violence in the commission of terrorist acts"...I do not, nor should any other, regard every retard who gets unruly on a plane as a terrorist. I think that would go against everyone's wishes.

As far as your military status. It is the responsibility of the airline you check in with to provide your "exempt" status. I push every one of my agents to make sure that not a single active or reserve duty military person gets the dreaded "S". You know what I mean. I make every effort to make sure that those who honor us with their service are given their due honor by our service.

As far as the "moron" comment....I'll just dismiss that.

 

[casm]

it takes longer to explain to them, even with the authorization letter from SEC Mineda, that traveling under orders on military business, (and sometimes in uniform) that I'm exempt from secondary screening.

They're particularly dim at LAX regarding federal firearm laws concerning unloaded guns in checked baggage. Several times I've gotten into arguments with them over refusing to hand over my combinations so that they can search the gun cases - I'll open it for them, they can search, and I'll reset the tumblers once they close it up but it's a federal offence to give anyone else access to a checked firearm. This usually results in them threatening to have me arrested, at which point I generally ask for the FBI SAIC (Special Agent In Charge) to explain the law to them since they obviously don't know it. Then they get the supervisor I'd requested 15 minutes previously and the cases are checked properly.

The TSA suck. Just when you thought commercial air travel couldn't be made any worse... But, hey, we're all safer because of them, right?

 

[bjoehandley]

not to mention laptop/cellphone batteries...they contain lithium...highly reactive metal take a fully charged laptop battery...puncture through it with something metal and you've got a flaming frisbee of death

Heres a good demonstration of that;

http://rchomepage.com/~dna/LipoFire.wmv

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t90077p1/?highlight=fire+lipo

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/22732/Ge94506.jpg

 

[OT]

But, hey, we're all safer because of them, right?

Right.

I'll bet a dollar that there is thousands of families, right now, that wish the security was as overblown, like it is now, back in '01.

Anyone bitching about the enhanced security or lack of common sense in airport security, needs to remember what happens when the security gets lax and accept the cavity search with a smile and a thank you.

 

[Sarge]

It's destroyed.

Some areas do sell the confiscated items.

Sarge

 

[BruteXJ]

Well, no one said that uniformity was one of TSA's strong points.

 

[casm]

I'll bet a dollar that there is thousands of families, right now, that wish the security was as overblown, like it is now, back in '01.

Here, have a buck Thing is, there's overblown security and then there's overblown security. Do we have one single shred of evidence (no matter how tenuous) to show that the TSA are at all effective in preventing terrorism?

Anyone bitching about the enhanced security or lack of common sense in airport security, needs to remember what happens when the security gets lax and accept the cavity search with a smile and a thank you.

No, because you're still getting a hand rammed up your a**.

Like I said... There are ways of doing it, and then there are ways of doing it. The TSA is largely there so that the public has a visual cue that the government is doing something about the problem.

 

[RichP]

A few years ago I traveled around alot, field service, carried a techtronix portable O scope. Was going thru atlanta security after doing a local service call and when they asked me 'whats that' with me replying 'oscilloscope' several times I finally just em it was a tri-corder and they let me through...'beam me up scotty'.... Never even gave my used ignitor that I used for a keychain a second look... Ignitor is used to light fuse or detonate other initiators, looks like a short fat cigar, OD Green with a pull ring on one end and a shotgun primer on the other, fuse goes in the end by the primer, pull the ring back and a spring loaded firing pin slips loose and pops the primer...

 

[8Mud]

Physical security devices, installation, service and repair, was part of my job discription, when I worked for the State department. When I made any actual suggestions, for actually improving security, the desk jockys would get excited and try to shoot the messanger. I´d say the vast majority of security, is aimed at the appearance of security (like bomb resistant doors, in sheet rock walls). Thought up by office drones, rather than professionals.
You got to understand the mentality, if you make a good suggestion, you are saying that, all that could have been done, isn´t being done. Or in other words, someone dropped the ball. The exception is new technology, that hasn´t been previously available. Security implementation is a very convoluted process.
One of my favorite playtoys, was a pop up barracade, that would launch a medium sized truck :wstupid: . Remember having to put a safety cover on the actuator button, after the guards had inadvertantly lauched a few cars and trucks (usually by setting there coffee cup on the button).
If they could figure out how to remove EGO and politics, from the security implementation procees, there would probably be many actual, non cosmetic improvements to security.
Watched them cut down a row of trees, between a high speed street and a sensitive area the other day. Really nothing better than a tree, to slow down a truck bomb or set off an RPG. Wonder who´s bright idea that was.