Just thinkin aloud.....

[in4aride]

Now I've gottn the idea that a cage is just meant to supplement the integrity of the body in case of a flop or roll over (unless it's a highspeed/comp use vehicle). And every cage I have seen mounts I side the jeep body with an inch or two gap and then plates connecting the tube work to the body.

When I flopped the white jeep, those plates broke. Allowing the body to mover that extra in or two, possibly just enough to cause all the cracks and overal tweakage of the body.

So onthis jeep I was thinkin about caging and I was wondering this:

can I remove the plastic mouldings to reveal bare metal on 'a' and 'b' pillars. Weld a flat length of plat strait to the pillars and weld the cross bars directly to those plates. In essence welding the bars directly to the body. Of course then adding the hoops and floor bars. But focusing on keeping as much tube directly contacting the body as possible.
I understand welding to the body is a pita cuz of the thickness and whatnot. But, theoretically, am I thinkin clear?
This would allow for least amount of body flex/movement on an impact. Ya the body may be beat to hell on outside but essentially the body wouldn't disfigure cuz the cage was welded straight to it not just braced to it in a few spots.

 

[_dallas_]

I think the real trick is not to flop your ride, but if there is enough surface area to weld plate to the inside of the body, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[in4aride]

True. But I'd rather have the cage and not need it. Cuz the last one without a cage woulda been really ugly.

 

[_dallas_]

It shouldn't be a problem to weld additional metal to the "A" and "B" pillars then weld your internal cage to that.

Have you thought about going the exo-cage route?

 

[in4aride]

I HATE exod full bodies. If you're gonna put that much effort Into it ya might as well cut cut cut, dovetail, bob and then cut some more and make a
buggy.
I'm not worried about the body getting dents and crap. It's a $200 shell, who cares. I just wanna be able to walk out of a flop/roll.

I like pushing as hard as I can. And I wanna keep wheeling bigger and harder trails. And the likelyhood of me screwing up and ending up on my side is high. So I wanna be ready. And interior cage foots the bill of what I want

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yep, the best cage design would be to have the tube up against the entire unibody structures along the pillars, roof supports, down along the floor/door sills, etc.

Take a look at any Baja or Jeep Speed professional build, that's how they do it.

Here, the cage is within an inch or less of the main structures of the upper roof/unibody:

Here you can see how the "B" pilar hoop tucks right into the pilar notch (on the left) and hugs the roof line:

Kinda hard to see, but you can see the dimple-die'd filler brace between the "A" pilar down bars and the "A" pilar itself. It's too difficult to get the tube that close to the pilar with the dash and other supports that are in that area:

Led will be the first to tell ya to ditch the headliner and get that tube as close to the roof as possible. Yep, you'll sacrifice some sound deadening and temp control (sun will get that roof cooking) but that's what's required for a proper cage.

Check out this link to AZRick's build. He did one helluva tight fitting cage, built it on a rotisserie:

http://members.cox.net/4x4xfun1/88_xj.htm

His rig is beat to snot, but has held up structurally over time and additional mods since the initial cage build. When it tears, folds, smashes, bends, he cuts it away and adds tube :

 

[in4aride]

Holy chit!!!! Thanks Troy that's the info I was looking for!! :thumbup:

 

[jeepdude25]

my buddy has a JeepSpeed cherokee you can look at. Its just like that.

 

[Fred]

Plates broke where? This is the cage that "ahem" Troy sold me? It's going to be a lot of work to fit that thing in the jeep, and if I need to do some work on the footplates the info would be helpful. I'm planning on making more backing plates since only two came with it, but I can't really picture where they will fit in the middle of the jeep.

A deserved Hijack.

Fred

 

[in4aride]

The plates that connected tube to roofline right in front of b pillar. There were just two of them. The cage held up fine. I'd just connect it to body more

 

[Fred]

Oh, you mean the plates that aren't there anymore.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Oh, you mean the plates that aren't there anymore.

Yeah, I knocked those plates off when I removed the roof to get the cage out. They were barely welded on actually...... one was already busted loose on the driver's side, the other came off the tube with a hammer-smack.

There aren't any foot plates for the underside of the "B" hoop Fred. The long bolts and the 3" sections of 1" strap are what go on one side of the mounting plates, drilled through the frame rail and bolted using the straps on the 2 long bolts for each side. I think that cage was supposed to have had the foot plates welded on so that the holes "straddled" the frame rail allowing short bolts and strap plates on each side of the frame rail, but when I got the jeep home from Damien, they didn't sit that way. You'll end up drilling through the floor, and through the center of the frame rail and putting the long bolts through, using the strap plates to disperse the load. You might consider using carriage bolts going up so that you have smoother surfaces instead of nuts on bolts sticking down......

Does that make sense?

 

[Caged94XJ]

Troy your kit is the earlier version of mine. The new kit has foot plates. Fred if you are ever up in Denver give me a ring and I will show you that same kit installed in a 2 door.

Mark

 

[Frank Z]

This thread has me thinking that an ExoCage makes more sense.

 

[Caged94XJ]

This thread has me thinking that an ExoCage makes more sense.

I am with you on this one Frank. If you don't want a full exo do a hybrid. B, C, and D pillar internal. With a halo and external A pillar with rocker replacement. You get the best of all worlds and it is tired to the body.

 

[XCastleXJ]

ive always been really curious how you do a 360 degree weld around the tube on a cage - especially with the tube being so close to the body.

it makes more sense on an exo because you can weld sections of it while not on the jeep and then put it together around it. but inside i just dont get.

 

[Frank Z]

Bore holes through the floor to drop the upright pieces through, weld the tubes, raise everything back up. This would also require plates with properly sized holes to weld the bottom of the pipe to and then a corresponding plate under the rig to sandwich the mounting points.

 

[xj-grin]

I am with you on this one Frank. If you don't want a full exo do a hybrid. B, C, and D pillar internal. With a halo and external A pillar with rocker replacement. You get the best of all worlds and it is tired to the body.

That's on the list for my rig next year...:cheers:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yeah, this partial exo style is getting real popular and for good reason. It protects the "A" pilars, creates roof sliders, and gives alot more internal room. Less for the occupants to bash themselves on in a flop/roll too.

Good pics in this link of how he did it: http://ns2.noanet.net/bin/nick

But yeah, getting full welds on an interior cage is impossible unless you remove the roof or like Frank said - make the legs straight up/down and make holes for the tubes to drop thru so you can weld the top joints of the cage while assembling it inside the XJ, then push it up into place and slide foot plates in over the holes as mounting points. Ideally, those foot plates would then be further anchored to braces to frame stiffeners or sliders.....

 

[Fred]

Or you could look for Goatman's old threads after he rolled his XJ. He had a nice combo of internal and external caging.