Impact sockets with torque wrench?

[iwannadie]

I'm wondering if using impact sockets with a torque wrench is accurate? I know the metal is softer but also the sockets are thicker to make up for it. Will the socket deform at all and throw the torque reading off?

I'm asking because I have a wide variety of large size sockets and hoping to use them rather than buying chrome sockets to torque with right now.

 

[old_man]

It will be fine.

 

[DanMan2k06]

It doesn't matter at all. Torque is torque, as long as the bolt is reaching the spec the material doesn't matter. You could use a plastic socket if you wanted, but obviously it would break. Now when you start getting further away from the bolt to be tightened, that's when things are thrown off, you're now deflecting the torque into an extension etc and the bolt isn't going to be as tight as it would be right at the head of the wrench.

Also you have to ask yourself, "how anal do I need to be about this?". If it's lug nuts or suspension bolts, don't sweat it. Main bearing caps and head bolts etc, I would pay a lot more attention to.

I'm just thinking out loud here, if there's a physics expert that wants to chime in and make me look like a fool please do. I always like learning new things.

 

[old_man]

For the most part the length of the torque is not impacted by the length of an extension as long as it is held perpendicular to the bolt.

Think of it this way. If you are applying 75ft/lbs of torque to one end, there must be something on the other end resisting that torque. Even if the extension twists there is that much torque on the other end if you hold the torque constant.

 

[yossarian19]

once again - what old_man said.
Impact sockets won't throw off your torque settings. On an XJ, there are very few torque-sensitive items anyway. I keep my junk at spec just because - but the difference beteween 50 ft lbs and 100 ft lbs on a given bolt isn't noticeable. 50 ft lbs and finger-tight on the other hand, is a big deal.

 

[iwannadie]

It doesn't matter at all. Torque is torque, as long as the bolt is reaching the spec the material doesn't matter. You could use a plastic socket if you wanted, but obviously it would break. Now when you start getting further away from the bolt to be tightened, that's when things are thrown off, you're now deflecting the torque into an extension etc and the bolt isn't going to be as tight as it would be right at the head of the wrench.

Also you have to ask yourself, "how anal do I need to be about this?". If it's lug nuts or suspension bolts, don't sweat it. Main bearing caps and head bolts etc, I would pay a lot more attention to.

I'm just thinking out loud here, if there's a physics expert that wants to chime in and make me look like a fool please do. I always like learning new things.

Well, in my mind I was imagining the softer metal of the socket giving and throwing off the reading. As if you were using a bungee to pull something, the bungee would stretch while a rope wouldn't if that makes sense. It seems
that is an unfounded fear though but I had to ask.

Also, I have many toys so it's not just the jeep I'm using the torque wrench on ha.

 

[old_man]

Well, in my mind I was imagining the softer metal of the socket giving and throwing off the reading. As if you were using a bungee to pull something, the bungee would stretch while a rope wouldn't if that makes sense. It seems
that is an unfounded fear though but I had to ask.

Also, I have many toys so it's not just the jeep I'm using the torque wrench on ha.

Even with a bungee cord, how much you pull on your end says how much pressure shows up on the other end. The distance you pull may be different than a rope that does not stretch, but the force is always the same. Is the bungee going to grab on to something other than the attachment on the other end. If not, the the force on one end equals the force on the other end.

 

[asp]

I don't know what kind of impact sockets you guys own, but impact sockets harder than chrome sockets, not the other way around.

Other than that, Tom is right.

If you don't believe him, draw up some free body diagrams.

 

[iwannadie]

I don't know what kind of impact sockets you guys own, but impact sockets harder than chrome sockets, not the other way around.

Other than that, Tom is right.

If you don't believe him, draw up some free body diagrams.

Never said I didn't believe him, this was a question not a statement thread asking if they are ok to torque with. Also everything I read says impact sockets are made with a weaker metal. They are designed to deform rather than shatter like the hardened chrome sockets.

Wiki.

 

[asp]

Interesting, I've never heard of that before. Time to go google the googles and read a little more about it. It makes sense, I suppose.

I guess to answer your original question, I agree that the answer is yes, they're fine to use because of the reasons Tom cited.

To address the topic of the socket deforming during torquing, whatever deformation it sees will be negligible.

 

[DanMan2k06]

Oh trust me, if you're using impact sockets on an impact gun, they still shatter....

Granted it was a harbor freight impact socket which I shall never again use in my life. It literally blew up into 6 pieces in my face

 

[mrtoyota]

Even with a bungee cord, how much you pull on your end says how much pressure shows up on the other end. The distance you pull may be different than a rope that does not stretch, but the force is always the same. Is the bungee going to grab on to something other than the attachment on the other end. If not, the the force on one end equals the force on the other end.

Haha, I just gotta point out that if you used a bungee, although the total force exerted would be the same as if you used a piece of chain, the peak force exerted on the other end of the bungee would be substantially lower than on the chain because the force would have been exerted over a longer period of time. It's called impulse. I get what you're saying, I just couldn't resist being a smart ass

 

[GrimmJeeper]

As long as you make sure you are pulling on the torque wrench at 90° and your hand is on the handle part, your measurements will be accurate. I can't tell you how many people I see grabbing the torque wrench above or below the grips, they are there for a reason. It is designed to give an accurate reading there, any further up or down the arm of the wrench and you are changing the amount of leverage applied to the mechanism inside the wrench.

 

[RedHeep]

Where you grab the torque wrench has nothing to do with when the head breaks on a click type wrench. It breaks at the head of the arm, not the end.

All you're doing is making yourself apply additional force to the wrench to make up for the shorter distance between your hand and the pivot point. If the torque wrench is set to 100 ft lbs, the internal mechanism will still break at 100 ft lbs, but you might have to apply 150 ft lbs of force to wherever you're grabbing it to achieve that torque measurement at the fastener.

A torque wrench (click type or otherwise) is simply a measuring device based on length and force. You could grab it an inch from the break point and achieve the desired result at the end of the wrench by applying enough force to where you grabbed it.

It's obviously easier to grab it on the handle like it was designed, but it doesn't change the torque value if you don't and it clicks where it's set.

 

[kastein]

A torque wrench (click type or otherwise) is simply a measuring device based on length and force. You could grab it an inch from the break point and achieve the desired result at the end of the wrench by applying enough force to where you grabbed it.

negative on that sir... if you do this with a beam type torque wrench it will definitely read wrong. This is because it's calibrated to measure the deflection of the beam between the spot the measurement arm is connected and the socket, if you grab it between those two spots, part of the arm will be deflecting and part won't. Of course, it's pretty hard to grab a beam type torque wrench in the wrong spot.

I believe you're correct when speaking about "click" type torque wrenches, but I'm not sure. See http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/torque_wrench/index.html for how these work, and make your own decision.

 

[RedHeep]

You're right as much as I'm right I think. I've never used a beam style torque wrench, but I had a few classes on them in school.

A beam style torque wrench measures the torque at the gauge on the end, but the principle would be the same if you grabbed it in the middle. You'd still be pushing with an extra amount of force to achieve the same result at the end on the needle, rather than waiting for the head to click.

But you're right, I'm not sure why anyone would try and manipulate the middle of a beam torque wrench to get an accurate reading on the gauge at the end

The best way to demonstrate how it doesn't matter where you grab a torque wrench is to go do it. Grab the handle and torque something. Then grab the middle of the handle and torque it again. It will click (plus or minus a little, depending on how effective you are with a torque wrench) without the fastener moving.

 

[kastein]

That's more a demonstration of the fact that the static coefficient of friction is greater than the kinetic coefficient of friction... for all known materials.

Find a material with a greater kinetic coefficient of friction than static coefficient of friction and tire manufacturers will make you a billionaire overnight.

 

[RedHeep]

I'm just a grease monkey. If it clicks no matter where I grab it, it seems pretty simple to me

 

[yossarian19]

Yep... hold it at the end because it is easier, use whatever sockets you've got handy. Simple enough for me!