I know many don't want another war BUT.....Ira needed a thread to vent in

DutchVDub said:
Sorry, I haven't read through all of this but did Ira really say the crusades were a good idea? I'm pretty sure the Crusades made Vietnam look like an overnight success.

That's all I've got. Personally I would have no problem going back to the Middle East, but I really think ISIL is their own worst enemy. They have been committing more and more atrocious acts and to a wide variety of targets. Their actions seem to be doing what nobody else has been able to do since the Babylonian era, unite the entire Middle East for a common goal. Unfortunately for them that goal is the eradication of ISIL.

Of course I also think they changed their name to ISIL because they were afraid Sterling Archer would come after them for copyright infringement on ISIS. So yeah, that's how informed I am.
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No, I never said the Crusades were a good idea. I think it was my saying that the Templars were famous for their extreme " die for religion " mindset.
 
Read the Atlantic article Fred posted on this whole mess. It's extremely informative. They want nothing more than to get everyone (especially the US) to fight them since they believe it will cause armageddon. It's a losing proposition for everyone.
 
SolarBell said:
Read the Atlantic article Fred posted on this whole mess. It's extremely informative. They want nothing more than to get everyone (especially the US) to fight them since they believe it will cause armageddon. It's a losing proposition for everyone.
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Lol....... don't forget that people though the end of the world was 28 July 1914, 07 December 1941 and 21 December 2012 too :looney:
 
Here is something to read if you want to understand ISIL a bit better. This is a translated copy of their own words " Women of ISIL". View attachment 5220
 
Translated, I might add, by "Quilliam Foundation", a UK think tank that receives a shit-on of funding from the UK Gov't, and whose primary goal is to delineate "Islamists" from regular practitioners of Islam (something I applaud), while covertly providing guidance to western governments as to how to combat "Islamists" usually in the form of state-sponsored violence as Ira advocates (something I don't applaud).

That said, I'm not necessarily picking bones with their translation, or arguing that ISIS is somehow less violent and disgusting than they have already proven -- just saying, who does the translating is oftentimes quite important. That particular document, however, doesn't really show the jihadi nature of ISIS, just propaganda to try to lure otherwise further-oppressed saudi women to come be marginally less-oppressed in the Islamic State. It also doesn't change the fact that, just like was Bin Laden's goal with Al Queada, and which he succeeded at greatly, ISIS wishes to drag the west into further unwinnable, bankrupting, perpetual, ideological warfare. Their atrocities and violence are intended to be provocational, and they are intended to provoke exactly the reaction Ira gives them. I for one, would prefer the US not take their bait.
 
I for one would like us to have a weapons malfunction and send an ICBM or two over there. Then we use our own oil reserves while the radiation levels subside, afterwards taking over the entire region and controlling all that's left of the world's oil. Pending we aren't attacked by mutated terrorists of course. :D

Better yet, we make a deal with Russia where we unite to take over the entire region and then split the oil 50/50. Thus ending both the issues caused by that regionand the current troubles between the US and Russia. Sounds like a win-win to me. We can split up the entire region, build up a wall, have an East and West side. You know, all those things that worked so well in Germany. Restart the Cold War, unlimited military budgets, ahhh yes. The good old Reagan era military. Those were the days.
 
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Lunch on Tuesday... :eyes:
 
xj-grin said:
Translated, I might add, by "Quilliam Foundation", a UK think tank that receives a shit-on of funding from the UK Gov't, and whose primary goal is to delineate "Islamists" from regular practitioners of Islam (something I applaud), while covertly providing guidance to western governments as to how to combat "Islamists" usually in the form of state-sponsored violence as Ira advocates (something I don't applaud).

That said, I'm not necessarily picking bones with their translation, or arguing that ISIS is somehow less violent and disgusting than they have already proven -- just saying, who does the translating is oftentimes quite important. That particular document, however, doesn't really show the jihadi nature of ISIS, just propaganda to try to lure otherwise further-oppressed saudi women to come be marginally less-oppressed in the Islamic State. It also doesn't change the fact that, just like was Bin Laden's goal with Al Queada, and which he succeeded at greatly, ISIS wishes to drag the west into further unwinnable, bankrupting, perpetual, ideological warfare. Their atrocities and violence are intended to be provocational, and they are intended to provoke exactly the reaction Ira gives them. I for one, would prefer the US not take their bait.
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I see your point. Just keep in mind that if we do nothing now our children will most likely have to! I for one would rather fight now and service my life than put off what is surely coming to my children or grand children... I would gladly give my life for my sons!!
 
DutchVDub said:
I for one would like us to have a weapons malfunction and send an ICBM or two over there. Then we use our own oil reserves while the radiation levels subside, afterwards taking over the entire region and controlling all that's left of the world's oil. Pending we aren't attacked by mutated terrorists of course. :D

Better yet, we make a deal with Russia where we unite to take over the entire region and then split the oil 50/50. Thus ending both the issues caused by that regionand the current troubles between the US and Russia. Sounds like a win-win to me. We can split up the entire region, build up a wall, have an East and West side. You know, all those things that worked so well in Germany. Restart the Cold War, unlimited military budgets, ahhh yes. The good old Reagan era military. Those were the days.
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Your starting to come around to my way of thinking ..... :D
 
ColoradoRaptor said:
I see your point. Just keep in mind that if we do nothing now our children will most likely have to! I for one would rather fight now and service my life than put off what is surely coming to my children or grand children... I would gladly give my life for my sons!!
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And from my perspective, Ira, you're determination to continue to take the battle to them, collateral damage be damned, will do nothing but guarantee that my own childrens' generation (hopefully not my children) deals with angry vengeful Islamists -- blowback, again and again.
 
xj-grin said:
And from my perspective, Ira, you're determination to continue to take the battle to them, collateral damage be damned, will do nothing but guarantee that my own childrens' generation (hopefully not my children) deals with angry vengeful Islamists -- blowback, again and again.
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Our generation is already dealing with angry vengeful radical Islamists all over the world. I believe that if nothing is done then it will surely get worse because they will attack and attack and attack until we fight back. We will be forced into confrontation again at some point and I would rather pick when and where versus them picking. What would you suggest besides the do nothing approach?
 
And why is our generation STILL dealing with it? Because our fathers and fathers' fathers, etc, etc. couldn't stop fooling around I the sandbox. My solution is far from doin nothing - it is for the first time in generations doing the right thing, and allowing the morons to be morons on their own soil. As I said in my first post, I have no problem whatsoever with defending myself, and as a society defending our soil from actual aggression. Those stupid enough to come here get the business end, and those that survive might learn to emulate us, and stay home minding their own friggin business. More likely, they will lose their vigor for a fight when we don't present ourselves as convenient targets, and either direct their energies to their own families, or to killing each other (as they have done for centuries). I couldn't care less either way.
 
Now, Now, Now Chris. It was the damn Russian's and British that meddled in the affairs of that region. We "supported" that region in its resistance to an over-bearing Communist regime. In turn we've been thanked for that support by being the primary target for the terrorists.

I do however agree that dealing swift and brutal justice to any that directly engage violence or harm upon a US target, yet completely ignoring the rest, has potential to allow them to go back to killing themselves. However, it could also make for a greater issue in years to come. How does the saying go, "All Evil needs to triumph is for Good men to do nothing."? Something along those lines.

The prefect answer is to find a 3rd party to be the evil oppressor of the region, give us another Hitler that targets Muslims instead of Jews. He wipes out most of the region and then we swoop in and save the day. We look like the good guys and the region is effectively pacified. Problem solved. :D
 
sure, we we're fomenting coups and assassinations in say, Iran, in say, 1953... :eyes:

As long as we change your "US Target" to "the US" we are on the same page -- because if nothing else we do a fantastic job of making ourselves targets through colonial bases in virtually every country on earth. If we move the target to them, it makes the shooting a shitton easier.

Bring our boys home, maintain a strong defensive stance, and let them sort themselves out -- and BTW, for those who like to compare things to Hitler... he too was a creation of western interference, filling the power vacuum and finding scapegoats to blame for the despair and poverty the west left behind through the draconian Versailles treaty... Its ALL blowback to busy body countries that can't mine their own business.
 
I'm all for removing the US and it's troops from the middle eastern issues.

What scares me is how quickly ISIS is growing and how well funded they are. I've been seeing video of them moving into cities and villages with tanks.... yeah, as in nearly a battalion's worth. No doubt much of it is our own equipment left behind and being re-purposed. Along with laser guided missiles and a seemingly endless cache of rifles and RPG / ground based rockets. Hell, how is it that we can't disrupt their social media and internet activity? They've even got TV/Internet broadcasting equipment.

What I truly don't understand is the end game for groups like Al Queda and Isis. Simply to rid the earth of infidels? A world that none of them clearly want to be a part of. Why don't they all just martyr each other and go get their 72 virgins in the other realm and leave us to rot away on this Allah forsaken planet? I mean seriously.....

I'm finding it very difficult to believe that with all the satellite technology we and other countries have currently, we can't keep a battalion of tanks and troops flying black flags under watch and send precision guided explosive ordinance right to them to snuff 'em out.

I'm all for a group effort from the US & allied forces using technology and smart bombs to keep ISIS curtailed. Troops on the ground to fight and/or maintain visible presence is just a futile exercise.
 
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But yella - you know why they are so well funded. We keep making martyrs with precision guided explosives and more and more people seek vengeance against the great satan. Satan should sit down, shut up, and watch the shiites, sunnis, waheebs, persians and whoever else is dumb enough to show, up turn their aggressions against each other, as they have for centuries.
 
DutchVDub said:
Now, Now, Now Chris. It was the damn Russian's and British that meddled in the affairs of that region. We "supported" that region in its resistance to an over-bearing Communist regime. In turn we've been thanked for that support by being the primary target for the terrorists.
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Well, we helped them, until it was no longer politically convenient for us to do so.
 
Personally I agree with the idea of isolating out country from the rest of the world. Global economy aside we need to pull ourselves back in a bit and do some self-repair. Huge deficit? Quit sending out millions in foreign aide.

I also think Teddy Roosevelt said it best, "We've got a big stick and we're not afraid to use it." That motto combined, "You leave us alone and we'll leave you alone." are how I feel we should structure our foreign policy. We need to get out of more than just the middle east, we need to get out of Africa, Asia, and the Pacific as well. Unless a country officially asks for our aide/presence, and has a set plan in place to compensate us for our services, then we shouldn't really be anywhere. Part of the advantage of modern technology is that we don't troops stationed all over the world to get them places quickly. Plus, if we aren't all over the place then we have no real reason to send them anywhere in the first place.

At the same time we can't just disperse our military like Clinton tried to do. We need to maintain a strong and well trained fighting force. It might not need to be as large as it is now, but we can offset the full time force with an increase in Reserve and National Guard forces. Turn ourselves into the slumbering giant or the hibernating bear as it were. And the first person to F with us gets hit so hard their ancestors feel it in the after life.

We need to focus on ourselves and quit trying to play World Police.

Damn, now I'm getting all serious with this crap. I hate you. Stupid snow needs to melt so I can ride my motorcycle and/or go wheeling.
 
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