HP44 gear install, 4.10's and ARB

[87xjco]

John (IoN6 on CO4X4) has a 1979 CJ5 Golden Eagle that is going thru a major overhaul.

He brought me a HP44 with Yukon 4.10 gears and an ARB locker for install.

Unfortunately John didn't bring me the old pinion gear and carrier. This makes a few things more difficult to set up.

Since I did not have the old pinion and was not able to determine what oil slingers were in place originally and I was not able to measure for shim thickness. This meant I was going to have to install from memory what slingers I believe the front HP44 came with and I was probably going to have to try several different shim stacks, before I obtained a good pinion depth.

Unlike the typical rear D44 pinion gear shown below, every front D44 I have done so far has a large slinger that is installed between the inner bearng and the back side of the gears, they also have a smaller stepped slinger that installs between the inner bearing race, and the axle housing.

So I pressed his new inner pinion bearing on with the large slinger in place, and added .045" of shims between the bearing and the stepped slinger, I knew I was probably going to have to make several changes in shim thickness, so I used a set up inner bearing race that has the outside surface ground off and will slide into the housing by hand.

Here's the set up, 3 - .010" shims and 1- .015" shim and the stepped slinger and set up race.

I installed the pinion into the housing leaving out the shims that are used for setting pinion bearing pre-load (I will set that after the pinion depth is dialed in), I tightened down the pinion nut until there is a little bit of force required to turn the pinion by hand.



In the mean time John installed the new ring gear onto the ARB and torqued the bolts in a star pattern to the proper torque spec.

I then installed the carrier into the housing, I was not concerned about having proper backlash at this time, as long as I had some backlash, I could run the pattern and work on pinion depth. Pinion depth always has to be set properly first before set up of pinion bearing pre-load or backlash.

Here's the first pattern and not surprisingly it needs alot of adjustment, it's hard to see in this photo but the pattern is showing contact on only a portion of the inner edge, indicating the pinion is too deep.

So it came back apart and I removed .015" of shims, re-installed and ran the pattern again. Now the pattern indicates the pinion is a little to shallow.

The coast side looks pretty good

So it came apart again and I removed a .010" shim and installed this .006" shim,

Then I reassembled everything and ran the pattern again.

Third time is the charm. Hard to see again but the lines indicate the edges of the pattern.

And the coast side still looks good

Now its time to take everything apart, remove the set up race and install the new race, then I installed .040" worth of shims between the outer pinion bearing and the shoulder of the pinion gear, tightened down the pinion nut until I started to feel drag on the pinion, I found I was getting too much rotational force before the pinion nut was all the way tight.
This meant I needed to add some more pre-load shims, I add .006" of shims, re-tightened and that worked good.

My close up photography really sucked last night, but the blue arrow indicates the max. torque obtained when rotating the pinion and it is slightly more that 17in lbs. Perfect.

So now its time to install the carrier and set back lash. I started with .060" shims on the teeth side of the carrier, and .025" on the bolt side. The carrier was snug going in and required tapping it most of the way in with the dead blow hammer and using the caps to pull it in the rest of the way. That's just how I want it, to insure carrier bearing pre-load is good.

My first dial indicator reading showed about .015" and that's too much.

So I changed the teeth side to .055" and added .005" to the bolt side of the carrier.

Then I obtained the below readings. Good .0065" backlash

So you might think I was all done, so did I.

But for good measure I ran the pattern again and found it was way off. The only thing that changed since I last checked it, was removal of the set up race and installation of the new race. Well I took it all back apart, measured the two races and they were the same thickness.

Scratching my bald head trying to figure out what happened, I don't know but I know I am gonna have to change shims again until it is right. I ended up taking .010" out of the inner bearing shim pack, doing the same to the outer bearing pre-load pack Cussed a few times (o/k alot) and then a couple more thousands shim adjustments for correct pinion bearing preload.

Then I re-installed the carrier, Cussed a few more times (o/k alot), made a few more shim adjustments to bring the backlash back in spec. And then we ran the ARB line thru the case.

Thinking about it last night, I think the problem with the set up race is that because it doesn't fit tightly into the case, it isn't able to fully compress the shim pack, and this gave me a false reading. But the problem with not using a set up race is that everytime you have to use a punch to knock out the new race, you destroy the slinger that goes between the race and the housing. Luckily I had a couple of extra ones.

 

[markaboo929]

ONCE YOU OBTAIN THE CORRECT PINION DEPTH AND PRE LOAD- DO NOT MESS WITH IT LEAVE IT ALONE-IT SCREWS ALL ELSE THAT WILL FOLLOW............

 

[87xjco]

ONCE YOU OBTAIN THE CORRECT PINION DEPTH AND PRE LOAD- DO NOT MESS WITH IT LEAVE IT ALONE-IT SCREWS ALL ELSE THAT WILL FOLLOW............

WTF, I agree unless you are using a set up race that has to be removed, and as long as the pattern remains good when you're all done.

But if you don't have a good pattern when you are all done, you better not leave it alone, you need to fix it.

 

[markaboo929]

are you using a pinion depth set up gauge?

 

[87xjco]

are you using a pinion depth set up gauge?

Nope, it's a nice expensive tool to have, and probably can save some time on certain installs.

But I've heard that even most the installers that do this every day, still rely on the pattern for determining pinion depth and rarely use the pinion depth tool.

 

[markaboo929]

SORRY MY BAD THEN .I WERK AT A DEALER AS A TECH:flipoff: YES THEY ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE WHEN YA NEED TO REPLACE ONE.AND WAIT LIKE A GAZZILLION WEEKS IN THE PROCESS TOO.

 

[DaffyXJ]

Actually i think the change is more likely that you didn't have the backlash set when you did the pinion set up. the distance the ring and pinion are from each other will effect the pattern. i set the backlash minus all the carrier preload to ease the installation of the carrier the multiple times it is gonna take to get it right. When your ready, pull the carrier set up bearings and add .003 - .005 per side for carrier preload and install the new carrier bearings.
As for the oil slinger, you could have installed it behind the rear pinion bearing and used the shims behind the race. That way when you're punching out an old race, (Never really considered a used race as a set up race) you won't bend the slinger.
Nice set of pictures by the way, good overal explanation of the process. Except for the ommision of the backlash in the pinion depth setting.
What is the torque you aimed for on the pinion nut to get the 17 in lbs preload?

 

[87xjco]

Actually i think the change is more likely that you didn't have the backlash set when you did the pinion set up. the distance the ring and pinion are from each other will effect the pattern. i set the backlash minus all the carrier preload to ease the installation of the carrier the multiple times it is gonna take to get it right. When your ready, pull the carrier set up bearings and add .003 - .005 per side for carrier preload and install the new carrier bearings.

I do agree that backlash will effect the pattern and it should not be off by very much when you check the pattern. But I haven't found that having for example .020" backlash compared to say .008" backlash, really has any effect on the pattern. So i don't try to get it much closer then that when i'm checking the pattern.

As for the oil slinger, you could have installed it behind the rear pinion bearing and used the shims behind the race. That way when you're punching out an old race, (Never really considered a used race as a set up race) you won't bend the slinger.

I'm confused, there is one large oil slinger that does get installed between the bearing and the back side of the gears, the other must be installed between the race and the housing, and no matter if you put the shims in between the housing and the small slinger, or the small slinger in between the housing and the shims, when you knock them out with a punch to change shims, damage will occur to both the shims and the small slinger.

However I could have been using shims underneath the bearing insteed of the race, to make my adjustments. From what i've seen the factory uses different thicknesses of the large slinger to make this adjustement on front D44 applications. But this may mean pulling the inner pinion bearing off and on several times or using a set up bearing instaed of the race. And actually I have a very good puller that has not damaged a bearing yet, so maybe that's the way I should have gone. Probably would have saved me a few steps later on.

What is the torque you aimed for on the pinion nut to get the 17 in lbs preload?

When there is no crush sleeve, the torque of that nut should not effect the pinion bearing rotational force. The outer pinion bearing seats up against the shims and the shoulder that is on the pinion gear. So even if you were to overtighten the pinion nut, the rotational force should not be effected.

 

[DaffyXJ]

I do agree that backlash will effect the pattern and it should not be off by very much when you check the pattern. But I haven't found that having for example .020" backlash compared to say .008" backlash, really has any effect on the pattern. So i don't try to get it much closer then that when i'm checking the pattern.

I've had mine change considerably, however my only point here was it is possible to get the backlash set with setup bearings and leaving out the carrier preload till the end.

I'm confused, there is one large oil slinger that does get installed between the bearing and the back side of the gears, the other must be installed between the race and the housing, and no matter if you put the shims in between the housing and the small slinger, or the small slinger in between the housing and the shims, when you knock them out with a punch to change shims, damage will occur to both the shims and the small slinger.

Okay.

When there is no crush sleeve, the torque of that nut should not effect the pinion bearing rotational force. The outer pinion bearing seats up against the shims and the shoulder that is on the pinion gear. So even if you were to overtighten the pinion nut, the rotational force should not be effected.

I know that, I was refering to the actual torque you put on the pinion nut. I usually shoot for between 140 and 180 ft lbs, and adjust the shim pack for the pinion preload with that amount of torque.
It is possible to have to few or to many shims and have the pinion 'lock' up at 80 ft lbs or have no preload at 180 ft lbs.
Just asking what you use for pinion nut torque?

Still think it is a good overview of the process.
Derik

 

[87xjco]

Thanks Derik, and I agree about 180lbs torque on the pinion nut before checking the rotational force is good and you must be careful that it does not get too tight before you reach that torque.

 

[riverfever]

That's a nice, detailed write up Terry. Thanks for posting. I've always thought that sounded like a pretty daunting task and well........it appears I was right. Personally, I couldn't tell one difference between any of those yellow marks. I suppose it'd be big trouble right here in River City if I stuck my thumbs in there. :looser:

Damn good thing a fly rod doesn't use a locker.

 

[xj92]

Regarding a pinion depth tool, I don't use one because my neighbor showed me the easy way to do it. Just take the difference between the previous pinion and the new one you're installing, and adjust the shims accordingly. The pinion should always be marked with a # like 2.625 etc. or + or - 1,2,3, etc. Knowing the zero mark and comparing the #'s will tell you how to adjust the shims compared to the previous shim pack. Then you just adjust 1.5 * your pinion adjustment to get the backlash real close.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Regarding a pinion depth tool, I don't use one because my neighbor showed me the easy way to do it. Just take the difference between the previous pinion and the new one you're installing, and adjust the shims accordingly. The pinion should always be marked with a # like 2.625 etc. or + or - 1,2,3, etc. Knowing the zero mark and comparing the #'s will tell you how to adjust the shims compared to the previous shim pack. Then you just adjust 1.5 * your pinion adjustment to get the backlash real close.

Yeah, that's the right way to do it, but he said he didn't have (or know) the previous setup so he couldn't compare.

I also doubt Yukon marks their pinion heads with depth readings, but I could be wrong.

 

[xj92]

Yukon does mark them, that's what I used to set mine up. I must have missed the comment about not having the previous setup :doh:

 

[PW1XJ99]

I then installed the carrier into the housing, I was not concerned about having proper backlash at this time, as long as I had some backlash, I could run the pattern and work on pinion depth. Pinion depth always has to be set properly first before set up of pinion bearing pre-load or backlash.

Actually, I always set the backlash first, then read the pattern.

You can hold off on the carrier preload, but it should still fit snug.


Also, it's hard to tell by the picture, but the pinion looks like it's too close..

(I can't see the drive side)

This is a good pattern: (note the even coverage)

Just my 0.02...