Here is a very Libertarian Idea...

CherBear

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Indiana
Here is a very theoretical idea I want to bounce off of your guy's devils advocate-type mentalities;

I came up with this idea to try to make people less angry with their government, it seems like everyone hates taxes for programs they dislike (shocker I know).

Tax revenue would be collected the same way as it is now for demonstration purpose.

Tax revenue would be SPENT in an entirely different way. Instead of elected officials deciding what the budget would be spent on, they would only be responsible for deciding on what is taxed and how to raise money.
Taxpayers would decide WHAT to spend their taxes on.

Example;

Lets say I dislike welfare, wish the police were better equipped, and think our schools need more funding.

So:

I would choose to give half of my taxes to the police fund, half to the school fund. And none to the welfare program.

This system has 3 major advantages:

1. Programs that the public disliked and wouldn't fund would be eventually phased out, or altered so more taxpayers would put money into them.

2. Programs that the taxpayers liked would get more and more funding each year so that they would expand.

3. This system would encourage programs to be both transparent and efficient.

Some potential disadvantages:

Taxpayers could drastically undercut entitlement programs. Which some people may not see as bad. But still, it is pretty obvious that people on welfare(or similar) don't pay very much if, any in taxes, so self-funding is obviously impossible.

Military R&D could be majorly cut depending on how you "group" programs. Few people know that the military is building the next super-laser-death ray, so they would be unlikely to fund it.

IF these do become apparent problems, my fix would be to revert a portion of tax dollars back to the old method of gov controlled spending. That way the congressmen could fortify underfunded programs that the public might not have full knowledge of or not care about.

So in essence, every government programs turns into a non for profit charity, the only catch is, YOU have to still pay taxes, you just get to elect how they are spent.

-Cher
 
I'm Libertarian myself. :) The idea of people controlling what taxes should be paid doesn't sound like a bad idea. Just make sure the person who decides what taxes to pay, is a hard working tax payer, not a welfare recipient.. Personally, I'm not for cutting taxes nor raising taxes. I'm for a flat tax that would not only keep the U.S government well funded, but also keep the size of government in check. For example, if they keep spending and growing like they are now, a moderate flat tax rate won't fund them enough to keep growing, so they would have to reduce back to normal levels. And WE the "taxpayers" should vote if we should raise or lower the flat tax rate, so WE control it. Everybody gets taxed according to what they are paid. Not the "your rich, so give half of your paycheck and give more to the people who need it(cough, welfare recipients, cough...) routine, nor the cut all taxes and screw our men and women who are putting the lives on the line for our country. And stop spending money on stupid programs like the study of shrimp, ants, and other stupid unnecessary shit. I saw it on FOX, a shrimp in a water tank walking on a small treadmill... I guess they want to improve the health of shrimps... :laugh: :banghead: AND stop giving bailout money to companies. If they fail, so what. Something better and stronger will come out of it and most importantly, the government would keep their noses out of where it ain't suppose to be. Also, Lobbying should be illegal and you must be a Taxpaying American citizen to vote. We currently have Illegals and welfare recipients voting for the future of our children.. :banghead:
 
People will vote for programs they like....for instance the ones who take other peoples money and put it in their pocket.......I'snt that what has been happening?

I believe in charity and helping others. In fact I donate over 20% of my income every year, now the government wants to kill the deduction for charitable donations.
 
People will vote for programs they like....for instance the ones who take other peoples money and put it in their pocket.......I'snt that what has been happening?

I believe in charity and helping others. In fact I donate over 20% of my income every year, now the government wants to kill the deduction for charitable donations.


Under this plan...You don't vote for them per say... It is all done on an individual basis. You could send your tax dollars where ever you please, it is not done as a consensus. You are not required to send your money to entitlement programs, but you HAVE to send it somewhere. Like school funding, or military, police etc.

Think of it as no one group or individual would have the power to "take" money, but as a whole, everyone must give.

Also I thank you for being so gracious, if we had more people like you, we wouldn't need so many taxes!
 
I'm Libertarian myself. :) The idea of people controlling what taxes should be paid doesn't sound like a bad idea. Just make sure the person who decides what taxes to pay, is a hard working tax payer, not a welfare recipient.. Personally, I'm not for cutting taxes nor raising taxes. I'm for a flat tax that would not only keep the U.S government well funded, but also keep the size of government in check. For example, if they keep spending and growing like they are now, a moderate flat tax rate won't fund them enough to keep growing, so they would have to reduce back to normal levels. And WE the "taxpayers" should vote if we should raise or lower the flat tax rate, so WE control it. Everybody gets taxed according to what they are paid. Not the "you're rich, so give half of your paycheck and give more to the people who need it(cough, welfare recipients, cough...) routine, nor the cut all taxes and screw our men and women who are putting the lives on the line for our country. And stop spending money on stupid programs like the study of shrimp, ants, and other stupid unnecessary shit. I saw it on FOX, a shrimp in a water tank walking on a small treadmill... I guess they want to improve the health of shrimps... :laugh: :banghead: AND stop giving bailout money to companies. If they fail, so what. Something better and stronger will come out of it and most importantly, the government would keep their noses out of where it ain't suppose to be. Also, Lobbying should be illegal and you must be a Taxpaying American citizen to vote. We currently have Illegals and welfare recipients voting for the future of our children.. :banghead:

Sorry, I am horrible at chopping quotes, so each section I have bolded is what I am responding to in order.

1.Exactly, people who don't pay taxes would have no say on where the tax dollars were going. You personally, can only elect where your tax dollars went. So if I paid 100k in taxes, I could choose where I wanted that 100k to go. If some one paid only 20k in taxes, then personally could decide where that money went.

2. That is what I am saying! if people dont like the program, or think they are spending money foolishly, then they would stop funding them! No more shrimp treadmills.

3. If you dont like what the a particular government agency is doing/enforcing, cut their funding! Dont send them your money!

4. I have considered this as well, but even if you could ever get it passed. (never gonna happen when half of the people dont pay taxes anyways)
It is just too much of a blow to society to disenfranchise such a large group of people... you are talking about seniors, many disabled people etc. Not a good idea IMHO.
 
that would require every taxpayer to know all the details of every single program.

thats the idea behind electing officials. they are supposed to learn about all those things and decide on behalf of the voters.

logistically that would be a giant nightmare worse than the one we have now if we had to decide what to fund and what not to fund.
 
that would require every taxpayer to know all the details of every single program.

thats the idea behind electing officials. they are supposed to learn about all those things and decide on behalf of the voters.

logistically that would be a giant nightmare worse than the one we have now if we had to decide what to fund and what not to fund.
x2. We have elected officials for a reason. We vote for who we think will best represent our ideals, and hope for the best. As much as people complain about the caliber of voters, imagine that same caliber of person deciding how America spent its money...:eek:
 
that would require every taxpayer to know all the details of every single program.

thats the idea behind electing officials. they are supposed to learn about all those things and decide on behalf of the voters.

logistically that would be a giant nightmare worse than the one we have now if we had to decide what to fund and what not to fund.

Not necessarily. You wouldnt have to break things down into such discrete groups. For example, on the more local level, you could elect to send money to "Police". and that be as detailed as it gets, you dont have to break each thing down to "Police buying a new tazer" or "Police secretary staff christmas bonus fund"

You dont have to know the details of every little thing, but atleast (most) taxpayers would have a good idea of what most major agencies do. Eg; Give money to nasa if you like space travel, dont give money to militay if you are a pacifist etc.

And I agree with you 100% on that SHOULD be the function of elected officials, but with this system, each taxpayer gets to decide where money goes, it isnt a uniform distribution across the board.

Also, tell me how well our elected officials are doing when we have research invovling friggen shrimp treadmills??
 
x2. We have elected officials for a reason. We vote for who we think will best represent our ideals, and hope for the best. As much as people complain about the caliber of voters, imagine that same caliber of person deciding how America spent its money...:eek:

You raise an excellent point, i would agree that there would be many dollars foolishly spent. (hopefully less than now)

Today's politicians are not the best people to lead our country. Here is why; elected officials have two goals. One of them being to do a good job governing, but MORE importantly is to get re-elected.
The politicians we have today are simply the best at getting elected. Not always the best leader. It is simply an inherit flaw of democracy, it is inescapable.


How did you know anything about any presidential candidate in the last 6 decades? Well campaigning of course! Thats how people learn who they want to elect! This system takes a lot of the focus away from our leader and puts it on the programs we fund. People will start campaigning around town for specific programs, not just candidates. They study each candidate and vote for who they feel best represents them.
And this is exactly how people would learn what they would want to fund. The only difference is that you are sending dollars instead of ballots.
 
Blind trust and mediocre accountability in our elected officials is in part, how we got many of the special interest programs that exist today.

Let's take a quick look at recent history.......the majority of Americans are against government run healthcare.....yet the bill passed.

The majority of Americans were against the governmental takeover of GM and Chrysler, yet it still happened.

The majority of Americans are against allowing people to killing their own babies, yet it is still legal to do so.

The majority of Americans support the development of domestic energy resources, yet more restrictions have been applied.

The majority of Americans support balancing the US budget and eliminating the deficit........yet both continue to grow at a record pace.

The majority of Americans are in favor of enforcing the existing immigration laws and securing our borders, yet the illegal alien population is at a record high.

I could go on all night.........but I won't.

I submit that the reason that the Will of the People is not being enacted by our elected officials is that the People have become complacent, dare I even say lazy. We have not held them accountable.

If your boss assigns you a task and you fail to complete it in the allotted time frame, you will be held accountable. Repeat this frequently and you'll likely find yourself looking for a new line of work.

Our elected public "employees" should be held to the same level of accountability. If the boss fails to oversee the employees and they are completing the job they are hired to do, the failure of the company......our in this case, The United States of America, rests upon the shoulders of the boss.

You. Me.


Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from their homes.

Twelve signers had their homes completely burned.

Seventeen lost everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his pledged word. Their honor, and the nation they sacrificed so much to create is still intact.


"And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
 
"True, but..."

True. If you worked for me, and weren't doing your job, I'd fire your ass. Problem solved.

The biggest part of the problem is that there isn't one boss - there are anywhere from one million to three hundred million bosses here, and you have to get enough of them to agree that these people need to be canned.

I've been trying to get rid of the ineffectual jackasses in Congress, but I'm only one man. My efforts are limited, and I need to be able to get enough people to agree with me to make it happen.

I keep trying. But, there's only so much I can do. No matter how much effort I put into the problem, I still need enough people to agree with me that something needs to happen.

Believe me, out of the 537 people we've elected at a Federal level, most of them would be canned outright within the first three months of working for me - either for not doing what they're supposed to do, doing what they're not supposed to do, taking too damned long to get something they're supposed to do done, or other failures related to non-performance and/or disciplinary issues.
 
Blind trust and mediocre accountability in our elected officials is in part, how we got many of the special interest programs that exist today...

...I submit that the reason that the Will of the People is not being enacted by our elected officials is that the People have become complacent, dare I even say lazy. We have not held them accountable.

If your boss assigns you a task and you fail to complete it in the allotted time frame, you will be held accountable. Repeat this frequently and you'll likely find yourself looking for a new line of work.

Our elected public "employees" should be held to the same level of accountability. If the boss fails to oversee the employees and they are completing the job they are hired to do, the failure of the company......our in this case, The United States of America, rests upon the shoulders of the boss.

You. Me.

True, but...

...I've been trying to get rid of the ineffectual jackasses in Congress, but I'm only one man. My efforts are limited, and I need to be able to get enough people to agree with me to make it happen.

I keep trying. But, there's only so much I can do. No matter how much effort I put into the problem, I still need enough people to agree with me that something needs to happen.

Spot-on, gentlemen... and praise God we still have our Freedom of Speech.

Props to all who have "awakened" and accepted their responsibility to speak-out.
 
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