HANDGUNS for self defense...

[5-90]

Which is why I brought up the #4 buck on a modified choke. The choking minimises the spread of the shot, but the "modified cylinder" choke isn't so tight that is restricts your ammo choices.

I also mentioned the idea of "hardening" walls for various reasons - and subbing solid-core doors - or steel-shod doors - for hollow interior doors isn't a bad idea. It is also possible to "hide" some light metal sheeting under wallpaper - or paint, with a little work - if it's dimpled to allow the screws to sit flush. It won't take much if it's on the opposite side of the wall to recieve lead - about a 14 gage sheet should do the job. It takes a little work to bring it off, but I've seen it done.

I also didn't advocate the idea of "shooting from the hip" blind - you can practise hip shooting and become quite good at it (I'm reliable out to about 25 yards on snap-shots.) I have NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE, taken a blind shot at anything. I also do fairly well with a pistol at the hip - although I prefer not to do it (the idea of training is to address any potential eventuality...)

Once you get good at basic marksmanship, take some time to start 'stress training.' This means things like doing wind-sprints between target strings so you're tired, holding 10-15 pounds straight out from the shoulder until you start to shake, then "shooting for record," and anything else you can think of to make it harder. Work out a way to do "surprise" drills - I find firecrackers can come in handy. Once you've gotten past the "easy" training, make it difficult. I've also done "failure" rounds for training - rounds that are designed to not go off, or to cause incomplete extraction/ejection in autos. Work out ways to make it hard for yourself, or get a creative training partner to handicap you so you don't know what's coming. Good stress training means surprises...

Y'ask me, everyone should be willing and able to maintain a firearm (or several!) for home and personal defence - now more than ever.

So, did I forget to say something the first time, or was I just not clear enough? I'd like to be sure...

5-90

 

[8Mud]

So, did I forget to say something the first time, or was I just not clear enough? I'd like to be sure...

5-90

What 5-90 and others have said is pretty much right on. But IMO if it gets to a shooting matter, your other precautions have already failed.
Personal security is a whole lot more than a pistol or whatever. The weapon is actually the last stand.
Asses your vulnerabilites, make plans for probable senarios.
How are they going to get in? Have you planted thorn bushes outside possible entry points? Do you have something in place to alert you when someone is coming? When a cat comes on the property, a chime goes off, you get used to it. If you have to retreat, which way and where are you going.
Study your own habits and make plans. You normaly sit in front of the computer for a few hours a night, where is your weapon? Next to the computer? Can you see the front door without opening it? Would a mirror near a window help? Are you going to answer the door with a pistol or walk around the house carrying. What are your options, when you have to react in seconds.
When I go out to the Jeep in the mornings, my way is lighted and the dog goes first.
I leave the radio on at night and a window partially open. whomever is around, thinks I´m alert and awake. You get used to it pretty quick.
Vary your routine. Be aware. Plan for a fighting retreat. Use your brain, before you have to use your weapon.
My military training boiled down to, if ambushed and there is no cover, attack.
My civilian training, boiled down to, planing in lines of defence, early warning and having options, for probable senarios.
Like 5-90 said, you can tell them, but you can´t make them listen.
In the summer of 84, I was in a Mc Donalds parking lot, just outside of San Diego, when the world turned to chit. I remember arguing with a COP (mostly under a parked car), about giving me his pistol so I could end this. He kept saying, he had to wait for back up and follow policy.
Probably sooner or later (hopefully never), your gonna have to deal with things when they turn to crap. Best to remember the six "P's" prior, planning, prevents, p*ss, poor, performance.

 

[wilson]

I think its sad. call the cops. sound s like you are perty worked up. keep a bat by the bed. 12 gauge when you use the pump every criminal knows that sound universal sound(pump pump) that means get the hell out. Handgun revolver. no jams and i read in a handgun mag. long time ago that if you have to shoot more than 2-3 time you shouldnt even be shooting at the target any way. make your shoot count. thats why revolvers are suprem.

 

[ECKSJAY]

I think its sad. call the cops. sound s like you are perty worked up. keep a bat by the bed. 12 gauge when you use the pump every criminal knows that sound universal sound(pump pump) that means get the hell out. Handgun revolver. no jams and i read in a handgun mag. long time ago that if you have to shoot more than 2-3 time you shouldnt even be shooting at the target any way. make your shoot count. thats why revolvers are suprem.

Absolutely false. Drugged, drunk, adrenaline-rushed, or very large individuals tend to be resistant to bullets. This often leads to long, drawn out fights that end in that person bleeding out rather than being neutralized immediately. Not sure what magazine you read, but I suggest reading a copy of The Ayoob Files. Torn down investigations into police and civilian shootings. There's almost never any such thing as a 'one shot stop'. About half of the rounds fired in a high-stress situation miss their intended target. Factors like tunnel-vision and focus on the attacker's weapon (rather than center mass), as well as MOVING targets contribute greatly to those misses. Often does not matter whether it's a revolver, single-action auto, double-action auto, or even a shotgun. NO TWO INSTANCES ARE THE SAME. There are constant variables that are involved and an individual should train for as many of them as possible.

 

[8Mud]

I think its sad. call the cops. sound s like you are perty worked up. keep a bat by the bed. 12 gauge when you use the pump every criminal knows that sound universal sound(pump pump) that means get the hell out. Handgun revolver. no jams and i read in a handgun mag. long time ago that if you have to shoot more than 2-3 time you shouldnt even be shooting at the target any way. make your shoot count. thats why revolvers are suprem.

Call the COPS, they may or may not, show up in the next hour or so (maybe tomorrow). There whole system, is pretty much designed, to deal with a crime, after it has been commited. There are some good cops out there, but in my experience, the vast majority Protect (there butt) and Serve (the rich). I wouldn´t count on someone else, dealing with it for you.
You can tell them, but you can´t make them listen. Rack the twelve gauge back it will scare them, wrong. If I hear the clack from cycling a pump, I´m gonna empty whatever weapon I have, at the sound. If you decide, to try and deal with it, in a non lethal manor, let one off, into the high wall and charge that sucker with the barrel, while he is blind and deaf, don´t stop pushing, jabbing and clubbing, until he is helpless. As long as they are wiggling, they are still dangerous. Deal with the aftermath later.
Revolvers jam, don´t let anybody tell you any different. They will occasionally peal a little copper or lead off the side of the bullet (sometimes from a factory, out of spec. hot load) and jam the cylinder. Don´t trust just one weapon. They will shoot a thousand times, then screw up, just when you need them. The last serious confrontation I had, I noticed afterwords, that the rear site, had fallen off of my slug barrel, chit happens. Spent cases, from an automatic pistol, occasionaly, stove pipe (from dirt in the chamber or low charge loads from the factory), gas pistons stick. I once had a pump, jam up so bad, I about had to use a hammer to get the spent case out, some of the glue, they used to close the carton, had dribbled on the round.
Chances are, with an adrenilin dump (heavy breathing, pulse racing, tunnel vision), you are gonna be shaking, shoot them multiple times, chances are, you are gonna miss a vital area, as long as they are wiggling they are dangerous. Don´t forget to look around, for additional threats, tunnel vision will get you dead.
Takes thousands of rounds, to aquire a good sight picture by instinct, and to automatically control trigger jerk. Aim small, miss small. Practice.

 

[Rocketman]

Right you are, my friend. Also remember the general rule of shot spreading 1" for every yard of travel. Consider the longest range inside the home...then consider that the shotgun is NOT a 'shoot from the hip, can't miss even if you're a bad shot' weapon. Hollywood sheep stuff again.

Ever heard of a diverter folks. NICE spread at close range.

To the guy who said he hopes he's around when I need help in public... I hope he's NOT around. I don't want some "Wild West" gunslinger, helping me out. Haven't been in grave danger in the last 30 years. Only a couple times before that. (48yo 6 years in Navy Special Forces) The handgun toting, got to protect my family mentality is pathetic. Just who are you protecting yourself from?

2nd amendment, IMHO was to prevent the government from seizing control over the masses. To give the public a means to defend itself from foreign invaders and our own government. Since THAT is an unlikely sceinario, and our ability to take over our government by force is virtually impossible, that leaves foreign threat. The 2nd was written in a time when weapons were necessary for daily survival and were much simpler. THAT "need" has changed.

I believe rifles for sport, hunting and home defense are still a good thing. I belive handguns, more importantly the LARGE proliferation of handguns has done NOTHING BUT contribute to violent crime, especially in the inner cities. It's a little hard to walk into a bank stealthily with a Ruger mini-30 in your pants. There has NEVER been nor do I have a problem with personal ownership of handguns by responsible people.

BIG PROBLEM... very few people are responsible!

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

The handgun toting, got to protect my family mentality is pathetic.

Comments like that will most definately NOT get you invited to any MWC BBQ's, Brewfests or shootouts...

I don't make it a habit to carry...

But it's nice to know that if the situation called for it...

That I wouldn't have to depend solely on Chicago's finest to come to my rescue...

...They'd arrest me first just based on appearance anyway!

 

[Eagle]

I won't presume to add my "tactical" comments to those of guys like 5-90, Ecksjay, RichP and Yellaheep ... but on the concept of "call the cops" I feel qualified to offer a couple of comments.

First, have you ever actually had to call a cop? I have. I live in a suburb. The typical response time .. if they aren't already occupied by another call ... is between 10 and 15 minutes. Considering that statistics indicate the average home burglar is in and out in less than 3 minutes (or is it 2?), that's not encouraging.

The second thing you should all be aware of is that the Supreme Court has rules that the police do not have a duty to protect the citizens. Somebody commented that their job is to clean up after the crime has been committed, and that's actually the case. Yes, if they happen to witness a crime in commission they are supposed to intervene, like the officer in NY who recently got stabbed interrupting a Dunkin Donuts heist. But in general they have no duty to protect you ... and believe it or not that applies even if you have a valid protective order against some party or parties. Even with such an order issued by the courts, the order is predicated on the ridiculous notion that the person who is threatening to kill you will stay away because of a piece of paper. Actual court cases against PDs who failed to prevent violations of protective orders have held that the police have NO duty to protect individual citizens.

Recognizing this, it is probably wise to think about providing for your own home and personal defense.

 

[casm]

The handgun toting, got to protect my family mentality is pathetic. Just who are you protecting yourself from?

Criminals, plain and simple. I figure that if someone's kicking my door in at 3am, they probably don't belong here and may cause me harm if they enter. Similarly, have you ever been a victim of street crime? I have, and in the hippie liberal guns-are-evil paradise of San Francisco no less. The simple fact that we're not legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon (notice I say 'weapon', which means anything from a firearm to brick) in this state damn near left me dead once because I obey the law (even the ones I don't agree with) whereas criminals simply don't.

And yeah, try telling the guy taking your wallet and keys (a particularly fun combination, because there was enough documentation in my wallet to figure out which house those keys went to) to hang on a moment while you whip out your cellphone and call the cops. See where it gets you; my guess is somewhere between 'bleeding' and 'dead'.

Incidentally, I should probably mention that the criminal's weapon of choice was an 8" buck knife. Bad people don't even need guns to do bad things, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have them for self-defense.

2nd amendment, IMHO was to prevent the government from seizing control over the masses. To give the public a means to defend itself from foreign invaders and our own government. Since THAT is an unlikely sceinario, and our ability to take over our government by force is virtually impossible, that leaves foreign threat. The 2nd was written in a time when weapons were necessary for daily survival and were much simpler. THAT "need" has changed.

No, that need has *not* changed. One thing during WWII that scared the hell out of the Axis (and similarly, later on, the Russians) was what would happen after they invaded America. Not only would they then be fighting us on our own soil, but the populace would be capable of putting up a resistance beyond the military alone.

As for defending ourselves from our own government... This is precisely why the second amendment was written: so that we would never become beholden to it. Any government should serve its citizens, not own them. If the ability to defend oneself against it should the need arise be lost, we're no longer Americans but serfs.

BIG PROBLEM... very few people are responsible!

Bigger problem... Most people are responsible, but all you ever hear about on TV (that unbiased media outlet) is how handguns are killing innocent little babies every minute of every day.

Honestly, I feel better in a state like Arizona or Washington where, walking down the street, I know who's carrying and that they outnumber the criminals.

 

[8Mud]

Ever heard of a diverter folks. NICE spread at close range.

To the guy who said he hopes he's around when I need help in public... I hope he's NOT around. I don't want some "Wild West" gunslinger, helping me out. Haven't been in grave danger in the last 30 years. Only a couple times before that. (48yo 6 years in Navy Special Forces) The handgun toting, got to protect my family mentality is pathetic. Just who are you protecting yourself from?

BIG PROBLEM... very few people are responsible!

I´m glad you´ve had an uneventfull life, maybe I´m just a chit magnet.
But I really can´t believe, everybody else out there, lives such a sheltered life. I´m jealous, way to much bad stuff has happened in my life.
15 years old and the lady across the street, was knifed and attempted rape. Two years later, a bunch I´d had words with, did a drive by at our home. Oops forgot, the first Watts riot happened in between, I actually had a job for awhile, riding shotgun on a street sweeper after the second or third Watts riot (forget which). When I was stationed in a peacefull country, like Germany, in the service, there were racial tensions (they attacked in groups), not to mention the local Commies and anti war activists. Fast forword a few years and I worked for a company, that was being robbed blind, I was supposed to be the answer man, I was threatened on many occasions. Was also responsible for delivery of $50-80,000 dollars a day to the bank ( I was allowed to go armed, into the vault). OOps forgot the Bader Meinhoff, was active in my area, they blew one of my favorite breakfast spots, my gas station , the local store where I shopped and the laudrymatt (I almost gave up bowling). Spoted one of the gang, on the street, gave up my info and was pretty nervous for awhile (I sure enough looked under the car every morning). Had some bullet headed nazi, try to throw me off a breakwater (about thirty feet tall) while on vacation in Liverpool (Mr. Browning convinced him it was a bad idea), please don´t tell the English, they might get upset. Drug dealers were trying to beat up my daughter, because she told them, where to stick there drugs, I went to talk to them about it and they flashed there guns, (had to convince them it was a bad idea). Oops forgot, watched some guy shoot a couple of dozen people at a McDonalds, on my way home from a fishing trip, watched him blow a little girl off of her bicycle. I drove all over the back roads of Croatia, trying to get to the detachments, to fix there stuff, road blocks all over and dozens of different uniforms and languages. I´m glad the seals live in a bubble, I worked with the detachment at Bad Tolz for awhile, listening to them, my life was pretty mundane. Oops, forgot about my time at the Consulate, watching the flying squads, snatch possibles, off the street, they´d drive up in a Beer truck (or what not), get out like they were making a delivery, snatch some sucker up and throw him in the back of the truck, jiffy quick, they frown on people pacing off the fences. I guess some of us, are unjustly paranoid. If your wife is screaming for help, should I just ignore it? I guess you can take care of yourself. One word of advice, don´t ever open up your eyes, it might scare you.

 

[wilson]

drunks, drugs, big guys big armys. I was just saying I think a revolver is a nice pick. but a you ready for war? as tough as we all think we are we probably couldn't handle it ourselfs anyway.
If anyone ever harmed my family I would string him up... If you are carrying a gun around you might also be asking for trouble. you might also want to think about that. Im not trying to talk you out of buying a gun, but think of everything and just dont go buy a gun just because you are scarred or pissed off. you like the rest of the guyd on here know you need to shoot all the time. not just put it under your bed. I used to shoot every sunday morning. but the only time i would ever end someone if they came in my house. this guy that want to get you. you know who they are? and why dont you go get them.
another thing to think about is the prison Time. just hell.Hell. know mater how big you are they will brake you and not just one as many they need to hold you down. and while you are in there. Your kid will be goowing up with out you what kind of hell that would be for the kid thats probly going through theripy. With no DAD to help her through the pain.
Im not trying to tough or some know how. this is just the first time I've wrote so much. and I was thinking of my own 11 month old girl.
Say calm and ask your self why are you in this kind of trouble and get your kids away from there. when you hang around the wrong side of the law you probably ask for trouble.

 

[5-90]

The second thing you should all be aware of is that the Supreme Court has rules that the police do not have a duty to protect the citizens. Somebody commented that their job is to clean up after the crime has been committed, and that's actually the case. Yes, if they happen to witness a crime in commission they are supposed to intervene, like the officer in NY who recently got stabbed interrupting a Dunkin Donuts heist. But in general they have no duty to protect you ... and believe it or not that applies even if you have a valid protective order against some party or parties. Even with such an order issued by the courts, the order is predicated on the ridiculous notion that the person who is threatening to kill you will stay away because of a piece of paper. Actual court cases against PDs who failed to prevent violations of protective orders have held that the police have NO duty to protect individual citizens.

Very, VERY true. The idea that the police (originally the office of "Sheriff" under English Common Law) has no duty to the body politic in an individual or collective sense dates back to the mid-1500's or so, when the office of Sheriff was created. This was carried forward from English Common Law into the early laws of the United States - the Supreme Court hasn't been making a decision, they have merely been confirming one made previously.

The duty of the police is to the state, to enforce the decisions and will of the government at the level they serve. The only time there is a duty to a citizen in particular is when the state decides they have a "particular interest" in that individual - which means, generally, elected officials and "whistle-blowers" - although not the latter in general. Apart from that, the cop on the corner has absolutely NO duty to protect or succor you, and you have no recourse in the event they fail of their perceived duty.

If you call the police and you are killed while waiting for them, your estate is entitled to precisely nothing as compensation for "failing in duty" - since there wasn't a duty to begin with.

As far as we are concerned, the police are little more than jailers and historians - they don't do much of anything else useful to the body politic directly (and I'm not so sure of the effective utility of incarceration - the repentant will do their best to avoid it in the future, the unrepentant won't reform anyhow.)

I find it interesting that several "ancient" civilisations did not believe in incarceration as an effective means of reforming criminals. In Imperial Rome, a citizen was never imprisoned. Fine him, lash him, kill him if you must, but do not lock him up. Incarcerating a citizen destroys his dignity and yours...

5-90

 

[Rocketman]

LET ME CLARIFY so there is NO confusion.

I sure wish carrying handguns were a safe option. I believe they aren't. IF (big if) all handgun owners were responsible people, I'd be defending the right to the death. BUT, since very few people are responsible, I'd feel safer if NO ONE had hand guns.

Think about it for a minute, if no one had handguns (except law enforcement, etc...) there would truly be very little you'd have to use deadly force to defend yourself and family against. At least nothing that 12 gauge couldn't handle. Some Tangos try to invade, the HK MP5A3 comes out of the case.

I have all my FOIDs including federal and even a BATFE explosives users license. I don't buy into the big brother paranoia. This government isn't that organized, never will be. The powers that be change too often. THAT is one of the safeties. Past power officials like FDR, Daley and Hoover can't build a power structure without longevity. Besides, the government doesn't truly run things anyway. Do they?

I don't run and hide but I do keep myself and my children as far away from harms way as possible.

That's my point, I'm not asking you to agree, or disagree. Just don't try to take my weapons!!

 

[Eagle]

That's my point, I'm not asking you to agree, or disagree. Just don't try to take my weapons!!

It goes both ways, Mate. I won't try to take your weapons if you don't try to take ... or encourage others to take ... mine. The 2nd Amendment affirms that we all have a God-given right as human beings (that's right, the 2nd Amendment does not "grant" us the right, it affirms a pre-existing right) to keep and bear arms. If that bothers you, I'm sorry for you but I see no reason why I should surrender my Constitutionally-guaranteed right because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

The Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution does not guarantee anyone the "right to feel comfortable."

 

[5-90]

You may rest assured that I have no intention of taking your - or anyone else's - weapons. I'm a firm believer in the right to defend oneself, and I would go so far as to say that the National Firearms Act (NFA 1934) and Gun Control Act (GCA 1968) are invalid on their face and should be rescinded. What about criminals with firearms? See my comments on incarceration and execution, above.

I also think that, while many people to-day are irresponsible with firearms, the fault does not lie with the firearm. It has become fashionable in Washington to ban something that people do dumb things with, rather than see to it that people are educated in safe use - and this extends beyond firearms into pyrotechnics (fireworks,) explosives, various chemicals, and FMVSS is getting silly because people are getting considerably worse at driving. Legislation is not the answer here - education is.

I remember being able to take a firearm to school to hunt on the way home, and the only talking-to I got was "don't load it until you're off the grounds." I also remember being able to buy ditching dynamite over the counter, and ammo at the hardware store.

Time was, kids were trusted. We weren't going to do anything stupid because we knew that whatever our old man/granddad/uncle/whatever was worse than anything the government would do, and more immediate, more certain, and by the time he was done the government wouldn't have anything left to prosecute. As it should be.

Now, we've got the whole "touchy-feely" child-rearing brigade lead by Dr. Benjamin Spock, the "Human Potentional" movement, and the generally Liberal Left saying that it's wrong to spank a child, and discipline should be minimal. Maybe discipline should be minimal, but that is because the rules should be few and simple - the Ten Commandments do nicely for a basic framework.

Punishment for breaking those rules should be swift and certain - and, to a certain extent, cruel. "Unusual" would be covered by the simple fact that you would quickly learn to not break the rules - "cruel and unusual punishment" is effective - the trick is to not go overboard doing the job. I honestly think bringing back flogging and the pillory would be more effective than whatever it is we're supposed to be doing now. Execution? Great idea, and the only way to deal with some offenders. Capital punishment should be limited somewhat - but it should also be practised. Do I object? Hell, I'd probably volunteer to throw the switch - once you convince me it's necessary.

Besides, there's the simple fact that if we allow a part of something to be banned, it's only a matter of time before all if it becomes outlawed. it's like the Arab parable about the camel's nose - if you don't stop the nose, you'll eventually find the whole camel in your tent.

I also believe that laws, like rules, should be few in number. Given a chance to re-emerge, the "social contract" can become an effective means of governing the populace - simply because a group of mature people acting in their own self-interest will behave well toward others - by eliminating the government, the potential for "instant Kharma" will increase greatly. We won't need to incarcerate the dead for murder, when they are killed on the scene.

The trick is to get people to realise that it is possible. We can govern ourselves without being influenced or ruled from without - once we all grow up. Perhaps we need a Coventry - a place to put those who won't grow up. If you can't get along with a society in the process of maturing, yo uare cast out.

5-90

 

[8Mud]

LET ME CLARIFY so there is NO confusion.
Besides, the government doesn't truly run things anyway. Do they?

My apology for saying you have your eyes closed.
The guns are out there, not often used and not often seen, but out there, millions upon millions of them (no matter which country you live in).
If you think laws, government, policy, hiding or wishing is gonna protect you, your dreaming.
I remember the Principle of my daughters school, saying there was nothing he could do about the thugs in the park across the street, as they weren´t on school property. Somebody elses problem.
I remember him telling me, that I was mistaken, they had no guns, because it´s against the law. Or his exact words, that can´t be, because guns are so tightly controlled here in Germany. He gave me the the talk about how dangerous guns were, while I was looking out the window at three hundred cars, two dozen double parked, a tight two lane street, hundreds of kids jay walking and everybody trying to drive/get out of there at the same time. Thinking this guy really isn´t in touch with reality and has a rather large hole in his perceptions.
The only true test of the right policy, is your survival, pro creation and the survival of your get. Anything that affects your survivial, in a negative way, is bad policy. Try to be a productive memeber of the community, try to do the right thing, try to live the right ethic, but survive. Do the best you can with what you´ve got, if need be, get the tools you think you need, to protect your family.
But I do have to agree with you, a pistol sure isn´t my first choice. As the proper tool for the job, in most cases.

 

[Glenn B]

Who is god? What right does he give me? I wanna see him, and talk to him. Oh, thats right.... he does not realyy exist. If I do not believe in that fiction, do I not have a right to own guns?

Your beliefe in fairy tails has absolutely nothing to do with my guns. Unless you beleive Bambi to be the almighty word?

It goes both ways, Mate. I won't try to take your weapons if you don't try to take ... or encourage others to take ... mine. The 2nd Amendment affirms that we all have a God-given right as human beings (that's right, the 2nd Amendment does not "grant" us the right, it affirms a pre-existing right) to keep and bear arms. If that bothers you, I'm sorry for you but I see no reason why I should surrender my Constitutionally-guaranteed right because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

The Constitution guarantees my right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution does not guarantee anyone the "right to feel comfortable."

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Who is god? What right does he give me? I wanna see him, and talk to him. Oh, thats right.... he does not realyy exist. If I do not believe in that fiction, do I not have a right to own guns?

Your beliefe in fairy tails has absolutely nothing to do with my guns. Unless you beleive Bambi to be the almighty word?

 

[5-90]

This should get interesting...

As I've always viewed it (being somewhere between an agnostic and a deist...) the label "God" is a sound-symbol for an intelligence we are unable to comprehend. "God" may have many names - or none - and may be one or many unto himself.

I have a hard time in believing that something so complex as the Universe (multiverse?) in which we exist could have happened purely by accident - there is, in my own opinion, some sort of Prime Mover.

However, in our being imbued with that ineffable "Free Will," there is little to no exterior control over our actions in a purely spiritual sense - and on the question of an "afterlife," "reincarnation," or anything similar, I shan't comment - not having a basis for reference of any significance. I am convinced that consciousness continues without the body (again, based upon my own experience - having been medically dead for a minute and a half due to exsanguination,) but what happens to it beyond that, Further Deponent Sayeth Not. I don't have enough experience or reference to know what happens next.

Having said that, I'm also not going to fret about it - I'll find out one way or another eventually. I know enough that I've no need to fear death - while I shan't actively seek it, I'm not going to worry about it when it comes.

Who is God? Where does He live? I don't know - I'm sure I'll find out eventually - or I'll be past caring.

I believe enough to think that there is a God - or something/someone powerful enough to pass - but I'm not going to let it dictate my actions and thoughts. If I were God, and I saw my creation being ruled by Me, I'd be insulted that I'd granted the ability to exercise free will.

"Not only does God play dice with the Universe, He sometimes casts them where they cannot be seen."
- Stephen Hawking, on the subject of black holes.

5-90

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

This should get interesting..."Not only does God play dice with the Universe, He sometimes casts them where they cannot be seen."
- Stephen Hawking, on the subject of black holes.
5-90

I think there's a thread in The Den with actual pictures of black holes...

oh and btw...

WTF is up mixing religious banter with gun chat?

Wait... I see the connection...

Religious differences start wars...

Wars need weapons...

conclusion:

(insert deity here) is a Gunrunner!