There are at least 3 types of flares, I used 2 in my conversion as Cal recommended when he helped me through the conversion, bubble for the metric connections and double flare for the others. I recommend if you are going to do this that you learn about both kinds, practice on scrap brake line and be sure you get a GOOD flaring tool that does both.
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Grand Cherokee Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Swap
- Thread starter Starboard M
- Start date
Jeepm@n
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northern, WI
Hasn't anyone just used the dual diaphram booster from a 95,95 XJ? My 94 had the single and just did a direct bolt in to the 96 dual diaphram. Although very nice write-up.
- Location
- Lafayette, CA
Certain years require you to swap the booster push rod. Im not sure on the year splits, but for my year it was cheaper and easier to use a WJ booster.Jeepm@n said:
VegasAnthony
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Las Vegas
2lazy2p said:
very good suggestion ..I used the flaring tool from autoone and a vise and it tiook a few tries to figure it out..tight is the word here ,,crank that suka down good.....
btw the flares dont have to be perfect to make that seak work ..Im prety sure the force of the fitting pushes th e flare into a sealing position
:lecture:
Wow, I'm overwhelmed. I knew this was technical, but...
I think I can do it, with some help. I don't think I'm gonna have the problems you all seem to. My XJ is a 2000. I guess I haven't even checked the MC yet, but I was about set to switch the rear drums over to discs, and was wondering about my ABS and some other valve or something that some of the kits come with but not all.
By the way, I'm new here and I'm still trying to get a few things straight...
Is there a Cherokee ZJ or are the ZJ's all Grand? I think I can use their rear brakes?
But which years? and I don't even know which axle I have or how to tell...
And what do I have anyway?? A 2000 Cherokee 4.0 4x4 with no trim, no markings, and no lift or tires.- well theres tires, but they're dinky. 15x7's,I think?
Help. Give a clue, I need a clue I know I just need to get a clue. J.
I think I can do it, with some help. I don't think I'm gonna have the problems you all seem to. My XJ is a 2000. I guess I haven't even checked the MC yet, but I was about set to switch the rear drums over to discs, and was wondering about my ABS and some other valve or something that some of the kits come with but not all.
By the way, I'm new here and I'm still trying to get a few things straight...
Is there a Cherokee ZJ or are the ZJ's all Grand? I think I can use their rear brakes?
But which years? and I don't even know which axle I have or how to tell...
And what do I have anyway?? A 2000 Cherokee 4.0 4x4 with no trim, no markings, and no lift or tires.- well theres tires, but they're dinky. 15x7's,I think?
Help. Give a clue, I need a clue I know I just need to get a clue. J.
- Location
- western new york
PapermanJ said:
your 2000 should already have a dual diaphragm booster. this upgrade isn't really an uprade for you.
VegasAnthony
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Las Vegas
PapermanJ said:
see if this link works foryou
http://www.naxja.org/forum/forumdis...1&pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1
use the SEARCH TAB ..itll be your best buddy..most questions have been asked and answered many times...
btw a pic of your axle would be helpfull...
- Location
- Houston, Tx
would a 97-01 XJ Brake booster be a direct bolt in for my 94 XJ?
- Location
- Houston, Tx
bump for an answer... what years will the 97-01 MC/Booster be a direct bolt in for?
magimerlin
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Flatonia, Tx
A couple weeks ago I did. I have an 89 and used a 95 XJ master/booster w/spacer. I got them from the j/y for 20 bucks for the pair. Only things I had to do was make a flat spot on the rod end, drill hole in rod end out a tad and make new lines. It took about 1-1/2 for me to do it all. The results are night and day better.Jeepm@n said:
pudge
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- inavan down by the river
So if I read this right.......My 90 which the brakes suck balls, I can upgrade to a 95/96 and up XJ booster/master or a 99-2004 Gr Cherokee set?? I really wanna look into doing this swap, I have replaced absofreakinglutely everything you can replace with new stuff and my brakes suck. I only have 31's too.
magimerlin
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Flatonia, Tx
pudge said:
The short and to the point ansewr is. Yes you can use either
As previously reported in April I did the 1996 Grand Cherokee booster/master cylinder swap, removing the old ABS system from my '89, since then I have been working on axles, rear disk brake conversion, interior liner and seats so I had not tested the brakes yet, they were quite "mushie" even after bleeding twice (standard pump the brakes). I had "bench bled" the M/C before installation. I built a "pressure bleeder" as described in link http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm
it worked beautifly, now very tight brakes. I also used a 2006 jeep liberty prop valve, it has both front and rear disk brakes so I thought it might work as well, it is also working as well as I could imagine. This is a very good upgrade to old '89 system.
it worked beautifly, now very tight brakes. I also used a 2006 jeep liberty prop valve, it has both front and rear disk brakes so I thought it might work as well, it is also working as well as I could imagine. This is a very good upgrade to old '89 system.
Jeepm@n
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northern, WI
The 95 and 96 booster fit the older Xj's with less modifications. They bolt in with minor line adjustments and some modifying of the push rod. 97-01 require more mods and the Grand cherokee power booster I do not have experience doing them.
300$XJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Spokane Valley, WA
Looking to do this upgrad on my 93, will the booster and master from a 96 grand cherokee with a v8 work? or does it have to have the 4.0?
bizkit642
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Topeka, KS
I did this swap about a week ago. If you are thinking about doing it. DO IT. Worth its weight in gold!
-Andrew
-Andrew
300$XJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Spokane Valley, WA
I want too, i found a 96 out of a grand with a v8 but I don't know if it's the same or different! I can get it for 35 bux so I guess I could just try it!
Americanpower
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Montreal, Canada
I've found a master/booster from a 93 ZJ, but it have 2 caps and an electrical plug on the booster. Will it works on my 88 w/o abs if I didn't plug that connector. The booster and master look like this.
Shogun
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arizona Territory
I did the 96 booster in my 89. Great improvement.
Why the 96 booster? Madxj explains that it is because the pushrod is a direct swap, you can use other year boosters but will have to fab the pushrod.
Up until I changed the front brakes, this was the best mod I had done. But keep in mind, you are not improving the brakes. Let me repeat that, you are not improving the brakes.
Let me explain;
The brakes, as constituted by the rotors, pads, and calipers are the largest contributor to the braking performance of the vehicle. The master cyl, booster, prop valve etc influence only how the hydraulic pressure is applied to those brakes. You are improving the hydraulic system, but not the brakes.
Now, how does this influence the rubber-meets-the-road braking performance? The first obvious way is the total pressure available to the calipers. Then the rate of onset of that pressure can be improved. Then the man-machine interface of how much physical pressure is required to produce the hydraulic pressure required (affects both total pressure and rate of onset). This is a curious human factor- people will refuse to extract maximum braking under normal driving conditions. Even when you prepare somebody, and ask them to give it everything (in a safe location) they will generally refuse to really push hard enough to max brake. Dont believe me? Look at the new braking systems (from mercedes first) that boost the rate and pressure when it senses a "panic" stop. They are making up for the fact that the driver will provide inadequate pedal pressure. But I digress. And here is the difficult one, the ability to modulate the pressure. With inadequate boost (total pressure) the tendency would be to go for max as fast as possible, thus reducing the ability to modulate pressure near impending lockup. Keep in mind that the rule of thumb is max braking occurs around 15% insipient skid. You know this as full lockup actually increases stopping distance, ie. dont lock em up. Thus the ability to modulate pressure as you approach wheel lockup is an important factor in extracting the maximum performance available. Note the wording; extracting the maximum performance Available.
So to improve overall braking performance you can improve the hydraulics to allow you to better extract the maximum performance available, or you can increase the maximum performance available by improving the brakes.
Thus far we have not considered the politics of the situation- dollars. Increasing the hydraulics will improve the performance, but not nearly as much as improving the brakes themselves. Dollar for dollar, the $50-100 hydraulic method is more productive. But you havent increased the braking performance as much as improving the brakes.
The bottom line is, the brakes are junk regardless of the hydraulic system improvement.
Why the 96 booster? Madxj explains that it is because the pushrod is a direct swap, you can use other year boosters but will have to fab the pushrod.
Up until I changed the front brakes, this was the best mod I had done. But keep in mind, you are not improving the brakes. Let me repeat that, you are not improving the brakes.
Let me explain;
The brakes, as constituted by the rotors, pads, and calipers are the largest contributor to the braking performance of the vehicle. The master cyl, booster, prop valve etc influence only how the hydraulic pressure is applied to those brakes. You are improving the hydraulic system, but not the brakes.
Now, how does this influence the rubber-meets-the-road braking performance? The first obvious way is the total pressure available to the calipers. Then the rate of onset of that pressure can be improved. Then the man-machine interface of how much physical pressure is required to produce the hydraulic pressure required (affects both total pressure and rate of onset). This is a curious human factor- people will refuse to extract maximum braking under normal driving conditions. Even when you prepare somebody, and ask them to give it everything (in a safe location) they will generally refuse to really push hard enough to max brake. Dont believe me? Look at the new braking systems (from mercedes first) that boost the rate and pressure when it senses a "panic" stop. They are making up for the fact that the driver will provide inadequate pedal pressure. But I digress. And here is the difficult one, the ability to modulate the pressure. With inadequate boost (total pressure) the tendency would be to go for max as fast as possible, thus reducing the ability to modulate pressure near impending lockup. Keep in mind that the rule of thumb is max braking occurs around 15% insipient skid. You know this as full lockup actually increases stopping distance, ie. dont lock em up. Thus the ability to modulate pressure as you approach wheel lockup is an important factor in extracting the maximum performance available. Note the wording; extracting the maximum performance Available.
So to improve overall braking performance you can improve the hydraulics to allow you to better extract the maximum performance available, or you can increase the maximum performance available by improving the brakes.
Thus far we have not considered the politics of the situation- dollars. Increasing the hydraulics will improve the performance, but not nearly as much as improving the brakes themselves. Dollar for dollar, the $50-100 hydraulic method is more productive. But you havent increased the braking performance as much as improving the brakes.
The bottom line is, the brakes are junk regardless of the hydraulic system improvement.
