front dig & suck down winches

[knucklehead 61]

:lecture: can someone school me on the terms front dig & suck down winches & their respective uses? :dunce:

 

[in4aride]

cant tell if you are being facetious or serious?

 

[Stukboy]

I'll bite.

disengage the rear so there is only drive power to the front tires.
Apply your cutting brake in the rear and the front will pull in the direction you drive while the rear stays in place. New meaning of turning on a dime.

suck down winch pulls the vehicle down closer to the ground to provide a lower center of gravity. it can be used in the front or rear. going down a steep hill pull the rear down, going up a steep hill pull the front down.

typically they are good for use in rock crawling where there are very tight turns and weird angles.

Stukboy

 

[knucklehead 61]

thanks, i am asking legit questions so i can beef up my new rig.

so a cutting brake would be a hand operated lever / master cylinder tapped inline to the rear line only, right?

to set up a suck down winch on front & rear you would you need 2 winches mounted where ever with a pulley on the line & just attach to the center of each housing, right?

I'll bite.

disengage the rear so there is only drive power to the front tires.
Apply your cutting brake in the rear and the front will pull in the direction you drive while the rear stays in place. New meaning of turning on a dime.

suck down winch pulls the vehicle down closer to the ground to provide a lower center of gravity. it can be used in the front or rear. going down a steep hill pull the rear down, going up a steep hill pull the front down.

typically they are good for use in rock crawling where there are very tight turns and weird angles.

Stukboy

 

[asp]

thanks, i am asking legit questions so i can beef up my new rig.

so a cutting brake would be a hand operated lever / master cylinder tapped inline to the rear line only, right?

to set up a suck down winch on front & rear you would you need 2 winches mounted where ever with a pulley on the line & just attach to the center of each housing, right?

Cutting brakes: Yes, basically. Usually you will apply the cutting brake to only one rear wheel (not both). Why would you want to hold the outside rear tire from turning too?

Suck down winches: Yes, basically. Creative licensing can be taken with orientation and attachment points and pulley systems. The answer to your next question: No, it's not practical to have one suck down winch operate both front and rear. Usually people buy much smaller winches (3k or so). They don't need to work as hard for as long as a recovery winch.

That said, a run-of-the-mill XJ can do some pretty ridiculous wheeling without any of these bits of hardware. Invest your money and time in other things that will preserve the longevity of your rig (example: cage). Learning to drive your rig is an important part of wheeling, something that many people forget about. While I think it's good that you asked questions, I hope you consider the advice I offer.

 

[Phil]

Many rigs are so light in the rear that if you only brake one rear tire, it will just drag. Braking both helps stop the back end.

Come to CalROCs at Donner Ski Ranch next weekend and you'll see the proper use of front digs, rear burns, suck down winches, all that fun stuff.

 

[asp]

Many rigs are so light in the rear that if you only brake one rear tire, it will just drag. Braking both helps stop the back end.

Good to know. I didn't realize that. Do they plumb it so that they can do only one if they want?

 

[knucklehead 61]

my current xj will be backed down to 33's when the 35's wear out & not wheeled as hard. my new xj is d60 & 14 bolt w/ 5.38's on 40's, np231 with d300 doubler & caged. it will be my rock rig. it has a spool in front & welded gears in the rear, but i think that i will swap them both to arb's like i put in my current rig. no use having 1 wheel cutting brakes on a welded gear axle i assume, but i see your point about locking only 1 wheel for tight turning. would you use 2 lever operated master cylinders then?

 

[Phil]

May as well plumb for single tire braking. Just something to be aware of. Don't be afraid to grab both levers. That is, with air leakers. With spools or auto lockers, a properly adjusted parking brake lever can work just fine.

Goatman's buggy has a spool in the front and an air leaker in the rear and it works great. I'd actually say try leaving the spool in front for a while.

 

[mcantar18c]

My buddy on 42s uses a his suckdown winches to get in and out of his garage :roflmao:
Sometimes on the trail too, but he usually doesn't need it as he can make a complete "X" with his axles, so he just flexes over everything.

 

[Fullsizexj]

Cutting brakes and suckdown winches are a great thing when used in the proper situations, I have a suckdown on the rear and cutting brakes for front and rear and can lock up any combination of tires I want at any time. I would not use cutting breaks with weak axles though, I have 35 spline 60's front and rear

 

[Chili Palmer]

You don't need cutting brakes to do front digs, but you do need a transfer case capable of disconnecting the rear.

The best, and cheapest, way of doing this is by installing an additional parking brake lever to operate one rear brake and use the original for the other, with an open rear end this will do just fine.