First build and need assistance

D

Duckmn56

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Minnesota
This has been a fun experience so far. Lots of maintenance and a lift with tires. 95 xj sport, 220 miles, never needed engine work, only a slight oil leak. Mn vehicle though so salt fun from the last 20 years.

iron rock 4" critical path kit
Jks quick disco
3.5" rear leaf upgrade
Hydro shocks
Double shear track bar kit
Extended brake lines
New brakes, hard lines, pads, and drums rebuilt
2 row aluminum radiator
New bearings
33x12.5 on 3.75 backspacing pro comp mt/2

I finally took it out this weekend for the first time. Worked pretty well. I'm in love with these tires, and I drove north two hours to get to the trail. Didn't go through anything too demanding, as I had an issue with the 4 wheel drive. Severe clunking, sounding like a binding driveshaft..

Ride was fine on road. Maybe a tad stiff but seems to be breaking in. Was smoother on the ride home.

Off road was so much fun! I'm hooked! Used to have a truck and drove through some mud but that was my limited off roading experience.

I thought the ride was rough. That's where we can start with the help I need :). We were on logging roads and I had to keep the vehicle at or below 15-20mph. Basically idle with a little gas. When we would hit even what seemed like an inverted speed
Bump i thought we were gowing tof catch air. So stiff. .

I guess I'm realizing this kit is more for crawling, but I've also read it is soft riding. I have a stock bumper but plan on a HD on with winch mounted.

Anyone have experience with this kit?

Will it get softer as things break in?
-as I add weight? Ie bumper and winch

I'm so disappointed I might look for alternate springs...

A few pictures:
When I figure out how to upload lol..
 
Hard to tell from the pictures but I'd bet your rear leaf spring shackles are pointed straight up and down.

If that is the case then the rear suspension will ride super stiff. There are a number of companies that sell shackle relocation brackets that let you dial in your ideal angle. This will improve the ride quality and your rear articulation greatly.
 
Hmm interesting. Good thought, I'll see if I can get a better picture tonight. I am not sure if I have them in correctly.

I don't feel like the rear is as rough. Though the rear was loaded.

I've read the iro springs are 200lbs/in, and stock is 148. Anyone have much experience with what gives a smoothish ride? If you could please list your ballpark weight with whatever springs (there's a spring rate guide in these forums). It might give me an idea If I'll have an ideal ride once I get the bumpers and armor rocking.

The stock springs road much smoother, well certainly could handle some bumps in the road.
 
Stiff ride has more to do with geometry of suspension parts and shock valving than stiffness of springs. I run a much higher spring rate both front and rear and only have basic bumpers and rocker guards. It rides like a caddy on the street. Smooth as butter on the freeway.

Im running a short arm RE 3.5" lift up front(240lbs/in). Rear are dodge 1ton van leaves, almost double the stock leaves capacity. But i have re dropbrackets and have relocated my shackles so they are at 45* at ride height. Both of these mods are essential in my book. Both on and off road.

My wifes rig has a shortarm ome 4.5" lift. Non relocated shackles and stock control arm mounts. It rides loke a dump truck. Very rough on the street. Still wheels very well but in comparisson to my rig its night and day.


In short.
Drop brackets up front
Shackle relocation out back. Hd offroad makes a no lift version of these.
 
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I understand what you're saying about geometry. The lift is a long arm kit, so I hope that is not the issue. I also have an adjustable double shear track bar installed. However, this is also what I am wondering, if somehow the arms are not articulating properly. Since I have heard the same thing about 230lb/in springs being smooth riding.

While I am asking for help, I will say I disagree with your comment about the shock valving function. It is my understanding that the spring provides the impact absorption, and then the shock dampens the rebound of the spring. Sooo the spring will have a huge impact on ride smoothness.

"The idea is for them (springs) to absorb the shock that the car is bound to encounter whenever it hits a pothole (for instance) by using the energy produced by such an event to attempt to bring the coils of the spring together."

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5007921_coil-springs-work.html



Thanks for your reply,

PS: I am in the technical field by trade, but this is a hobby I haven't been able to get into until now. So my working knowledge is low, but conceptually I do know a fair amount about what I am trying to do. Just don't have that first hand experience. Such as 230 lbs/in rides like a lumber wagon and 180lbs/in is Cadillac like. Or even with bumper and a winch 230 lbs rides smooth. etc.

Oh idk if it would make much difference for ride smoothness but I did have the sway bar connected the whole time..
 
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Must have missed they were long arms. Geometry should be fine. Though the shackle angle should be addressed.

What i ment by shock valving is that they need to be tuned to the springs you run. One shock, however good, on one persons jeep doesnt nessesarily mean its good on another. The shocks resist movement. They can absolutely add to a harsh ride. Stiffer springs need different shocks than softer springs. I am not a shock expert however i run a very stiff spring with very stiff shocks and have a great ride. Wifes rig runs very soft springs with cheap shocks and has a harsh ride.


You should also concider the label "soft ride" pertains to on road freeway driving. Not logging roads. If you are wanting to go faster over the small stuff you might be wanting to look at some of the jeepspeed style shocks and springs.

I would greatly suggest doing some shock research here in the jeepspeed section. And doing shackle relocators.


One more suggestion. Check out tire pressure. If your running 33s i would not be going over 30psi. Probably more like 27-28 maybe 30 if you are loaded up for camping. You will feel a world of difference in the on road ride dropping to that for even 35psi. Larger tires dont need the same psi to be stable. 35-40psi on large tires and you will be feeling every pebble on the road. Very rattly in the jeep.
 
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I have been wondering what people meant by "soft ride". Haha. Good to know.

I am trying to build a capable off road rig. This is an adventure vehicle more than a dedicated crawler. So going 30 over small bumps is a requirement. I just didn't think it would feel like I have no suspension.

Going to send a better picture of the shackle angle soon. I also deflated the tires from 33-35 to ~28 since I noticed only the middle 3/4 was in contact with the road. will report back on feel from that change.


Currently I have gained:
-low probability of wrong articulation of control arms
-too much air pressure, adjusted
-mis matched expectations
-possibly need to relocate shackle, will send pics
-look into speed jeeps springs and shocks

Speed jeep is what I should have bought! Thanks for the tip wish I had known about it before.

Hmm now I guess I might see how much I can get for my coils. Did not know about them. Should have not tried to push forward so fast with the startup on the project. Guess that's why I do these, to learn.

My other option is to make a dual spring setup. Could stand to go up a little bit more.. I guess, kind of liked the cog with 33s and 4" of lift.

Thanks for all the help.
 
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Rear shackle and front sway bar angle.
https://goo.gl/photos/kYFDNYARcQbf5h4q8

Shackle looks pretty straight. It does end up with a slight angle when jeep has all the hunting gear. Looks like a need a relocation bracket eh?

I think I need a sway bar relocation bracket and or a new sway bar. I cant seem to use the quick disco resting mount bc the sway bar is too close to the spring. What's going on there?

The air pressure was a big improvement. No longer feel every pebble.

Anyone have any clue where I can find some 'helper' springs that would be lighter duty and maybe bottom out? Basically they would absorb the initial shock of a pot hole. I can machine a fixture to pair them with the iro springs.
 
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Heffs_Heep said:
Correcting shackle angle was the best thing I ever did for my suspension. Huge huge difference with a good shackle angle.
Click to expand...


X2. Not only will it improve on road comfort but will improve flex offroad. You have to look at the Angle from bolt head to bolt head. The bend in the shackle is decieving. That angle should be at 45* at ride height unloaded.


Extend those jks discos longer. That will raise the bar contact point. Thus moving the bar ends up and away from the spring. More at the stock bar angle. Swaybar relocators are a bandaid for disco links being too short.
 
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GordoSmasho said:
X2. Not only will it improve on road comfort but will improve flex offroad. You have to look at the Angle from bolt head to bolt head. The bend in the shackle is decieving. That angle should be at 45* at ride height unloaded.
Click to expand...

I tried to get the camera fairly perpendicular and still get a shot of both bolts. It is decieving.
 
Even being generous thats 75*.

Should be like this
4afdb6ac37c4f9d0c2ca2ea941a7331d.jpg
 
Ok going to get the relocation brackets. I put them on order. Had to gethe the lifted ones though for future expansion. Also going to remove the rear swaybar. As it seems most do that anyway.

That leaves the front suspension. I am going to adjust the sway bars further up based on that recommendation. I thought the jks instructions said 15 degrees though?

Any ideas where to find helper springs? Jeepspeed? What is the official name for them?
Would disconnecting my sway bar have a huge effect on ride softness?
 
Fyi the lift relocators ones add about an inch of lift. Also the lift version changes the "roll center" of the rear end. (May be talking out my ass as im not and engineer of suspension systems).Mine are the lift style now and i find it a bit more unstable than id like. I find that when on the street the rear tends to lumber over before settling in a turn. Im converting back to the no lift style. And getting a more arched sping to retain lift height.


The only thing you need to worry about with the discos is when bottoming out the front suspension they dont come in contact with anything.

Tender springs i think they are called. Pac coil springs does tenders. Check cals thread. They use tenders on the their race jeep. Though that is a ton of travel. Tender spring only comes into play when the spring is fully extended. Full droop while flexing or when airborn.


Dont recall if you have frame stiffeners but that should be high on your list. It will greatly effect how the jeep feels in bumps.
 
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GordoSmasho said:
Fyi the lift relocators ones add about an inch of lift. Also the lift version changes the "roll center" of the rear end. (May be talking out my ass as im not and engineer of suspension systems).Mine are the lift style now and i find it a bit more unstable than id like. I find that when on the street the rear tends to lumber over before settling in a turn. Im converting back to the no lift style. And getting a more arched sping to retain lift height.

.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing, I've often wondered what needlessly lowering the rear leaf mount does mathematically.
 
xcm said:
Thanks for sharing, I've often wondered what needlessly lowering the rear leaf mount does mathematically.
Click to expand...
Sarcasm?

Soo not the best idea? Really I'm puzzled. Getting opposite sets of advice. One from a car guy, and others from the forum. Admittedly the car guy does not know a lot about lifts. However he is an engineer and does know suspension systems having raced and built his own cars. He is puzzled by the relocation bracket angle recommendations.
 
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