Engine oil cooler?

[yossarian19]

They are also common to each and every factory turbo'd Volvo and IIRC some non-turbo "white block" motors.
Of course, when you have a 2.4 liter engine with turbo pulling a 3500 lb car you don't have to worry that the oil won't come up to temp.
I hadn't known that about an oil cooler setup possibly preventing the cook-off of oil contamination. Good tech, OGS.

 

[AIbandit]

Re: Engine oil cooler? Passive?

I bet that accomplishes very little if anything.
Then again my claim contradicts science which has proven anodized aluminum = best,fastest, pro-racer stuff, SPEED!...

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

They are also common to each and every factory turbo'd Volvo and IIRC some non-turbo "white block" motors.
Of course, when you have a 2.4 liter engine with turbo pulling a 3500 lb car you don't have to worry that the oil won't come up to temp.
I hadn't known that about an oil cooler setup possibly preventing the cook-off of oil contamination. Good tech, OGS.

I try to give out honest advice and opinions based upon over a half century of experience and education. It is for this very reason that I take the time to copy out of my FSM alignment procedures.

This board has the possibility of being an outstanding source of support for both the new and the experienced Jeeper. What gets my dander up is when comments are made indicating that the question is "stupid". That and the popular, "just do a search" response.

I mean, if you are going to take the time to type something, make it worthwhile for crying out loud...

Back to the oil cooler question, it is required that the oil get up to at least 180(F).

How is this for a tuning requirement? According the the FSM on my Mercedes, tuning the engine is performed when the oil is up to temperature, no the coolant...

Important? You might think so, eh?

 

[whitexj98]

I don't think anyone is arguing oil coolers do nothing, the argument is on an XJ (this is an XJ forum) that they are essentially worthless.

 

[X E Ryder]

Thank you my XJ Brethren for your replies!

.........It is imperative that the oil come up to the minimum operating temperature so it can shed the moisture and solvents it collects at shut down. If this is not done, the oil will turn acidic. Bad things happen to the bearings....

Yes I appreciate this reminder, I knew about the water moisture part - it's why you don't start a rarely driven car for 30 minutes and shut it down; You DRIVE it!

The acids part - yeesh, more potential bad news and appreciate that.

The temp point is why I was not ready to commit to an oil cooler without the Hayden or Earl's or somebody's oil t-stat, which I am not sure whose to trust my motor to. Also, we need 1/2" lines min or you drop the oil psi badly right?

I swear if there is one wish for such an awesome offroad vehicle is a bigger grille, this 3x1' thing Really makes trying to stack all this cooling a balancing act.

For me it is about carrying all the gear, food and camping for a week, while crawling in hot brush encroached trails with all this slider and iron bumpers besides.

Anyone run those Derale passive frame mounted coolers - the finned log type?

atriot:

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I have, in the past, ran Hayden, Earls and Moroso T-Stats without any issues. Personally, I prefer running 1/2" lines just to be sure the flow is there. I also make a point of keeping the lines as short as physically possible.

On the acid issue, all bearings are made using Babbitt Metal. This is sometimes called white metal. Way back (think Model T Ford era here folk...) the bearings were poured into the blocks, rods and their respective caps. Then the metal was line bored to set the clearances. Not quite what we do today. It took a long time before the idea of a shell bearing gained acceptance. Most due to the tendency for the bearing to "spin". The anti-rotation stops just were not large enough and the bearing would start turning inside of the housing be they mains or rods. Trust me on this one, when you hear a bearing spin, you will remember the sound for the rest of your life...

The metal is susceptible to many issues. Obviously dirt being the largest issue.

For me to argue the benefits of a cooler is simply silly as the board believes them to be a waste of both time and money. I will continue to, respectively, disagree...

 

[bugout]

I have, in the past, ran Hayden, Earls and Moroso T-Stats without any issues. Personally, I prefer running 1/2" lines just to be sure the flow is there. I also make a point of keeping the lines as short as physically possible.

On the acid issue, all bearings are made using Babbitt Metal. This is sometimes called white metal. Way back (think Model T Ford era here folk...) the bearings were poured into the blocks, rods and their respective caps. Then the metal was line bored to set the clearances. Not quite what we do today. It took a long time before the idea of a shell bearing gained acceptance. Most due to the tendency for the bearing to "spin". The anti-rotation stops just were not large enough and the bearing would start turning inside of the housing be they mains or rods. Trust me on this one, when you hear a bearing spin, you will remember the sound for the rest of your life...

The metal is susceptible to many issues. Obviously dirt being the largest issue.

For me to argue the benefits of a cooler is simply silly as the board believes them to be a waste of both time and money. I will continue to, respectively, disagree...

FACT Heat Kills engines. So what would it hurt to have a little redundancy built into your ENTIRE cooling system?


Ok Steamer, I'm with you. Now would you be so kind as to point me in the right direction for the most affordable DIY route from start to finish? I've got a hand full of stacked plate coolers sitting around. I'm just not familiar enough with all of the plumbing, thermostats, fittings etc....

Thanks in advance

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Redundancy does not hurt at all. I am running the Flex-a-lite aluminium radiator just to have a bit of extra capacity. Supercharged you know...

Bugout,

If Amazon carries the parts needed, it will be difficult to find a less expensive solution.

A quality T-Stat is required and all of the main suppliers build good ones. Just make sure it has the partial bypass when closed feature. Some of them do not. In particular, the racing application versions assume that the engine will be up to temperature all of the time...

You will need an adapter at the block. I do not think that there is room for a "Sandwich" adapter on our engines, you would need to take a measurement, at the filter, to confirm. If there is not room, then IMO the best option is for a remote filter installation.

Use 1/2" lines... Make triple sure that the lines are rated to carry engine oil. Water rated lines will self destruct with a disastrous outcome for the engine. Keep the lines as short as physically possible.

Remote filters. What can you say about them? They come in single and double configurations. Do I think having a double filter vastly improves the filtering? Well, not so much actually and then there is the issue of finding a place for them. It may turn out that either the frame rail above the front axle, passenger side, will be a suitable mounting location. Or not. Will have to check and see. Space being what it is under our hoods...

For the heat exchanger itself, I prefer the old school simple tube and fin over a stacked plate as there is very little, if any, chance of the flow becoming reduced in a tube and fin exchanger. The cooler itself does not need to be, by any means, a large one. As a "for instance" the stock cooler on my Mercedes was only about 8" tall and maybe 3" wide. Is bigger better? Yes. Up to a point. Just keep in mind that the bigger the cooler the more oil it takes to fill the system...

Up to a point? Yes, up to a point. If the exchanger is "too large" then the T-Stat will be constantly working to control the temperature. What is desired is that it opens and then stay that way until the engine is shut down. Most, if not all, of the kits out in the world rate the coolers based upon the horsepower of the engine. We have 190 ponies stock so that is a good starting point for sizing.

Oil flow. IMO, a high volume pump is needed. The oil will be making a long journey so, give it a bit of help. High pressure is not required and as far as I know, there is not a pump made that does both a pressure and a flow increase. Would love to be proved wrong here. So if anyone out here knows of one, please post a link. Thanks in advance!

What I strongly suggest is that all of the external components be filled with oil prior to starting the engine for the first time after installation. This removes any possibility of oil starvation.

As is always the case in this sort of modification. Taking your time is essential to a good outcome. I also strongly recommend that a careful eye be used after installation to detect any leaks. This is the very life blood of the engine, no chances can be taken.

My Favourite shopping locations, in order, after Amazon:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/
http://www.jegs.com/
http://www.summitracing.com/

I hope this helps!

Cheers!
O-Gauge Steamer.

 

[WB9YZU]

Since the issue of idle oil pressure was brought up...

When I raced, I noticed a higher stability of synthetic oil in this area.
I was running. High clearance LA-360. The idle oil pressure with full synth 5w20 at 190deg was around 45, but was "only" 30 with conventional 10w30. As the runs went on, the oil pressure with the conventional oil kept dropping while the synth oil was stable.

The last oil cooler I ran was on a VW Bus, because it was a "Must have" on an air cooled engine. The oil lines kept failing about every 5k miles and it doing an oil change in the most inconvenient spots. But besides that, it was instrumental in keeping engine temps down.
I'm not Poo-pooing the idea of a cooler on an XJ, I am sure it will have some affect on making the engine last longer. I suspect that engines like the newer vets with a remote sump system use them.

I think overall, since we use a wet sump instead of a dry sump, that even though you cool the oil, you send it back to the larger mass of oil to be re-heated and instead of making a marked improvement, may simply result in a maintaince issue that didn't exist before.

-Ron