E85 conversion

[azxj2001]

I have a 2001 xj with
4.0 w/ a edge trailer jammier kit and rv cam
aw4
re 4.5 short arm lift
4.56 gears w/alburn ected up front and alburn limited slip rear
33x12.5x15 w/k2 bfg
I GET 12MPG so I'm looking at White Lightning Ethanol Conversion kit . gas is $3.20 and E85 is $2.60. is any one running a E85 kit , and dose it work, what kind of mpg do you get,do you have a power loss,worth it.

 

[Wiser]

hmm to bad its not smog legal in california

 

[old_man]

The other problem you need to realize is that you get about 25% worse mileage with E85, so given the numbers you quoted for fuel prices, the regular fuel is cheaper.

 

[DieselSJ]

Hmm. Interesting that all of the install videos have been removed from youtube for multiple copyright infringements.

Their design does NOTHING for making sure you are actually running E85. Installing one of these kits would lock you into running E85 only. A true conversion will include a sensor on the fuel line to determine if you are running regular gasoline, E85, or a mix and would compensate accordingly. I won't even get into firing the injector twice and how bad that will screw with the duty cycle. And what are they doing with the signal from the O2 sensor to make sure the mixture is correct? Really sounds like a fly-by-night operation to me.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront

These folks advertise thier system creates a full "flex-fuel" vehicle.. Run any combination after the system is calibrated.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

IMO the recent E85 prices are not low enough to make doing a conversion financially worth the expense. If you get 12mpg now, you'll end up getting closer to 10 with E85. Back when the prices were in the $1.75 range, by all means E85 was awesome especially if you have a high compression or forced induction motor. I had plans to tune my rig on E85 at one point, but due to the price differential here between E85 and premium I've decided to stick to premium. I'd end up wasting the saved $ by just driving farther to find an E85 station.

IMO, you would be better off doing a complete tune up and doing some simple engine mods (I/H/E).

 

[DieselSJ]

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/StoreFront

These folks advertise thier system creates a full "flex-fuel" vehicle.. Run any combination after the system is calibrated.

Again, if they aren't sensing the fuel then this is a recipe for disaster. They are counting on the O2 sensor and the stock tuning to compensate. IT DOES NOT WORK.

 

[child9]

The only good reason IMHO to run e85 is to make power. Any boosted car making 650-700 hp on pump gas (read premium) can make just over 800 on e85. Reason is it's much higher octane, which allows for more boost without detonation.

E85 will require completely different fuel maps and such, which means going to an AEM or MOTECH or some other such programmable and tunable after market ECU. Don't run e85 because you want better gas mileage. Run it because you either want more power or you are trying to prepare for the zombie apocalypse and want to be able to make your own fuel. Seriously though, for most Jeeps, e85 is not where you want to go.

 

[child9]

Also it should be noted that there is no performance gain (including gas mileage) from running a higher octane fuel than your engine needs. Unless you have a high-compression motor or a low-compression motor that's either turbo or supercharged, premium fuel is a waste of money. Many people misunderstand this. The octane rating of a fuel is merely a measurement that indicates its resistance to self-ignition. In a boosted application, the added compression in the cylinder will start to cause the air/fuel mixture to self-detonate BEFORE the spark plug ignites it. This condition is called detonation and will blow your engine right up. Pistons through blocks, lots of oil spilled...terrible for the environment. High octane fuel resists this "pre-detonation" better, waiting instead for the spark to actually light it. E85 has an octane rating that varies, but is around 105-107. Race gas is MUCH higher still. All that said, and now that I've written a book, the inconvenience associated with filling a tank and the actual reduction in gas mileage; with NO performance gains (on an NA motor) are not even close to being worth the price difference. Especially since in your 4.0L Jeep, you should be putting regular unleaded in it.

 

[XJCasper]

Based on the stats listed in the original post...

How many miles on the engine/rig?
Have you replaced the o2 sensors before?
When was the last spark plug replacement/tune-up?

 

[child9]

Agreed with XJ Casper. My 4.0 consistently gets around 16mpg... 18 on the highway if I recall correctly.

 

[crusTodd]

A different option for both added power and MUCH better fuel economy is the HHO hydrogen generators. Look the info up on Google, yahoo, etc. It's fo' real. The technology is getting better and more refined REALLY QUICKLY. I'm gonna' add one to my semi tractor. I should see 30-40 gain in MPG. Not cheap, but effective.

 

[old_man]

Somebody has been drinking their bathwater again.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

A different option for both added power and MUCH better fuel economy is the HHO hydrogen generators. Look the info up on Google, yahoo, etc. It's fo' real. The technology is getting better and more refined REALLY QUICKLY. I'm gonna' add one to my semi tractor. I should see 30-40 gain in MPG. Not cheap, but effective.

:spam:

It's fo' real

lol.

 

[child9]

Yeah, I've done a LOT of research into HHO, and was working on building a PROPER setup into my Cherokee a year or two ago. There are a few major obstacles.
1. Hydrogen supply. Hydrogen generators supply H and O2, sure, but there is no metering for it. The way this needs to be properly done is to have a huge bottle of H in your vehicle, just like you keep gasoline.
2. Tuning. The reason HHO theoretically can work is because of the speed of the flame front being increased dramatically. It allows for highly retarded ignition timing and the goal here (this is where the mpg comes from) is to be able to run an ultra-lean fuel condition safely. There is no "kit" on the market I've ever seen that even attempts to use hho in any way that isn't some sort of quasi-science.

These kits remind me of how a lot of people think that oxygen is flammable. They take one little observation and make claims that they say are based on sound science. They aren't, and oxygen isn't flammable. It's a catalyst. There is a huge difference.

I've also worked on alternative fuel projects for Ford and we were building PURELY hydrogen powered buses. The only way we could even get those things to run was to supercharge them. Hydrogen doesn't have the same energy capacity per molecule as do the hydrocarbons we burn. You have to compound and compress the shit out of it to get an explosion in the chamber that is equivalent to gasoline.

Anyway those kits can get SOME results just by introducing H into the fuel stream, but they are incapable of really taking advantage of the hydrogen. You are rolling the dice with the exact setup you have, the random-ass amount of H and O2 made by the generator being supplied to the fuel mix, where your throttle happens to be at any given time, etc, etc... There are gains that can be had, sure, but...

 

[DieselSJ]

A different option for both added power and MUCH better fuel economy is the HHO hydrogen generators. Look the info up on Google, yahoo, etc. It's fo' real. The technology is getting better and more refined REALLY QUICKLY. I'm gonna' add one to my semi tractor. I should see 30-40 gain in MPG. Not cheap, but effective.