Dyno Test - What's wrong ?

[A Satria]

There's nothing wrong with your dyno test results (says the Dyno Doctor ).
The Dyno Dynamics dyno is a load bearing dyno that reads HP/TQ at the wheels (not the flywheel), therefore the drivetrain losses are higher than what you would expect on a Dynojet (~32% for a RWD automatic).
The results are usually very accurate and the numbers are corrected for atmospheric conditions.
Your rear wheel numbers were 135hp @ 3950rpm and 205lbft @ 3000rpm. Flywheel numbers would be ~198hp/301lbft.
The air/fuel ratio was just about perfect during the dyno test.
It's hardly a surprise that your peak HP and peak HP rpm are so low given that the engine is choked off by the:

I talked to the DYNO TEST Mech. Test was performed on 3rd Gear.

Are you REALLY sure that my numbers IS RIGHT for initial 4.5L mod' ???!!! :worship:

As I told you previously you'll need to replace all the bolt-on items

• free-flow cold air cone intake,- Removed and replaced with CONE K&N Air Filter
• 62mm TB, - Alreay bored to 60. Should I bore to 62 or replace to FB Throttle Body ?, What size ?
• header - Stock
• 2.5" downpipe, - Removed and replaced with CONE K&N Air Filter
• 2.5" exhaust - all restricted cat/resonator removed, replaced w/ 2 inch pipe to free flow muffler
• ported head - Stock
• CompCams 68-231-4 camshaft - Stock
• Then you can start making some real power (260-270 flywheel HP should be easily attainable).

With all these items added, you can use the Unichip to dial in the fuel/timing curves to get the best results.

• What do you suggest for better performance converter for AW-4 if any ?, or any other perf' part for AW-4

 

[A Satria]

CROWER Camshaft Info

For Your Info...,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Priandhi Satria (BSU)"
To: "'Dustin Spencer'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Cherokee 1997, 4.0L stroked to 4.5L

> Part # recommended is On the hydraulic cam 44245 (CROWER).
> solid i would use 44310.
>
> adv dur @.050 lift
> 44915 -- 280/280 208/208 .448/.448
> 44310 -- 260/266 210/218 .448/ .453
>
> 1. What is the RPM range on the camshaft ?- 1800-4800 rpm
> 2. What is the Recommend RPM for Max HP - 4500 rpm
> 3. What is the Recommend RPM for Max Torque - 3000 rpm
>
> 4. What is the Max RPM recommended - 5500 rpm
> 5. What is the lobe center on the camshaft ? - 112
> 6. Should I use 1.6 ratio rockers or 1.7 Roller Rockers for these ? - 1.6
> 7. Does the above number included KITS (Tappet, Pushrods, springs, etc) - no that is just the cam, use kit# 84046 (includes springs, retainers, and
lifters)
on the solid cam the rpm range will be similiar but the spring kit # 84246

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I talked to the DYNO TEST Mech. Test was performed on 3rd Gear.

Are you REALLY sure that my numbers IS RIGHT for initial 4.5L mod' ???!!! :worship:

• What do you suggest for better performance converter for AW-4 if any ?, or any other perf' part for AW-4

Did you build a heatshield around the cone filter or is it exposed to hot underhood air? That can make a big difference in the way the engine performs.
The 60mm TB is too small for a stroker (it's just the right size for a 4.0). You need at least a 62mm (if maximum rpm is going to be 5000rpm) or preferably the F&B 66mm TB if you're going to extend the rev limit to 5500rpm.
The 2" pipe that you used for the exhaust is WAY too small. The minimum you need is 2.5" for a stroker making up to 250hp, and 2.75" if you're aiming closer to 300hp.
I think you should steer clear of a solid lifter cam unless you're planning to install adjustable roller rockers at the same time in order to properly set valve lash. Otherwise, go for the CompCams 68-231-4 that I suggested. It has more lift than the Crower cams and will give you a bit more torque.
If you stick to the 4.5L low buck simple stroker recipe from my stroker page, you'll have a very sweet low cost combo.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

[*]What do you suggest for better performance converter for AW-4 if any ?, or any other perf' part for AW-4[/LIST]

Try http://www.importperformancetrans.com/toyotaauto.shtml

The AW4 (Aisin-Warner 4-speed) is in the A340 family of trannies found in some Toyotas so many of the parts are the same both the Toyota trannies and the Jeep AW4.

 

[sangell]

Go back to the shop with the dyno and have them reload your runs, have them set the values on the graph to show time on the bottom, kph on the left and rpm on the right. Then compare your kph to engine rpm increase over a given time. This will show you if you converter and or trans is slipping. I run a Dyno Dynamics load dyno at the diesel shop that I work at. I saw you had wondered about a converter or trans problem. Doing the above with the dyno graph will give you your answers.

Scott

 

[A Satria]

Did you build a heatshield around the cone filter or is it exposed to hot underhood air? - Still Exposed, I am working on it...

The 60mm TB is too small for a stroker (it's just the right size for a 4.0). You need at least a 62mm (if maximum rpm is going to be 5000rpm) or preferably the F&B 66mm TB if you're going to extend the rev limit to 5500rpm. Thats what I want, F&B !!, Do I need to have the 2000+ intake for better intake volume, or existing is quite OK ?

The 2" pipe that you used for the exhaust is WAY too small. The minimum you need is 2.5" for a stroker making up to 250hp, and 2.75" if you're aiming closer to 300hp. Today, I am installing 3-21 Header, down pipe 2.5 all the way to Muffler (muffler is free flow streaigh thru 2.5 inner).

I think you should steer clear of a solid lifter cam unless you're planning to install adjustable roller rockers at the same time in order to properly set valve lash. Otherwise, go for the CompCams 68-231-4 that I suggested. It has more lift than the Crower cams and will give you a bit more torque. OK, NOTED !!!

If you stick to the 4.5L low buck simple stroker recipe from my stroker page, you'll have a very sweet low cost combo.

 

[A Satria]

CONVERTER / TRANSMISSION SLIPPAGE

Go back to the shop with the dyno and have them reload your runs, have them set the values on the graph to show time on the bottom, kph on the left and rpm on the right.
Then compare your kph to engine rpm increase over a given time.
This will show you if you converter and or trans is slipping.
I run a Dyno Dynamics load dyno at the diesel shop that I work at. I saw you had wondered about a converter or trans problem. Doing the above with the dyno graph will give you your answers.

Scott

WOW :worship:

I'll do this on my next runs.
kph, you mean Kilometer per Hour or ???

I'll post the results afterwards....
Thanks for the info for CONVERTER SLIPPAGE

 

[sangell]

Yes kilometer per hour. On the graph you posted if you look at the bottom scale to the right it shows KPH which is your tire/ dyno roller speed.

Scott

 

[Beej]

This is a good thread. I've learned more from this one and the streetpirate mod diary than I have in a while...

Good stuff gentlemen...

 

[A Satria]

Yes kilometer per hour. On the graph you posted if you look at the bottom scale to the right it shows KPH which is your tire/ dyno roller speed.

Scott

OH OK,

I got what you mean. SHould go back to the dyno shop, pull up my dyno run file, and re-arrange the layout of the output. GOT IT, and i'll do it next week.

 

[A Satria]

The 60mm TB is too small for a stroker (it's just the right size for a 4.0). You need at least a 62mm (if maximum rpm is going to be 5000rpm) or preferably the F&B 66mm TB if you're going to extend the rev limit to 5500rpm.

1x66/68J

Applications: 1991-2003 Jeep 4.0L straight 6 and stroked motors (4.2L - 5.0L)
F&B Jeep throttle bodies are available in 66mm and 68mm bore diameters (stock is 60mm necked to 56mm).
Some intake manifold porting should be done to enlarge the manifold opening. These throttle bodies have a 3" inlet and are compatible with stock air intake systems (not recommended because of flow restriction) and most aftermarket air intake systems.

 

[A Satria]

KS Motorsport KSNUSA.COM Jeep Motorsport Indonesia

Special thanks to :

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• Dyno Dynamic Dynamometer​
• Daimler Chrysler Dealer​
• Unichip Programmable PiggyBack Computer​
• Haltech Programmable Computer​

 

[A Satria]

Converter or Automatic Transmission slippage ?

Go back to the shop with the dyno and have them reload your runs,
set the values on the graph to show time on the bottom, kph on the left and rpm on the right.
Then compare your kph to engine rpm increase over a given time.
This will show you if you converter and or trans is slipping.
I run a Dyno Dynamics load dyno at the diesel shop that I work at.
I saw you had wondered about a converter or trans problem. Doing the above with the dyno graph will give you your answers.

Scott

Here we go :

Scott, what is your comment on this ?

 

[A Satria]

Exhaust

1. Takes time to order from the States (usualy 2-3 weeks)...:helpme:
2. My friend has one of the "HEADER" that you guys use in the states, so we took it off and ;
   1. Copy the Exhaust Flange, and have it CNC
   2. Copy and calculate the pipe diameter, lenght and volume for the 3-2-1 header.
   3. Down pipe is exactly the same 2.5 inch, as well as the volume
   4. Muffler is exactly the same, straight thru free flow,
   5. all the way 2.5 inch to the exhaust tip.
3. Seems the engine rev lighter and better. Sound is very crisp. I'll Have KSNUSA dyno the engine when ever they installed "UN-USED" CROWER CamShaft.
4. STILL, it is better than nothing. If I don't like it, I still can purchase a new one later-on.
5. I'll let "POST" dyno test results,...

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Re: Converter or Automatic Transmission slippage ?

Here we go :

Scott, what is your comment on this ?

I'm not Scott but looking at those graphs, the linear relationship between road speed and engine rpm tells me that there's no slippage in the tranny and the torque converter locks up just fine.
The engine does accelerate much faster with the 46% larger injectors so don't use the stock units. It's evident that the Unichip cannot get enough fuel flow out of the stock injectors even when they're maxed out and the engine runs too lean. The 46% bigger injectors gave you the 13.0-13.5:1 air/fuel ratio that you need according to the previous dyno chart.

 

[Beej]

Re: Converter or Automatic Transmission slippage ?

I'm not Scott but looking at those graphs, the linear relationship between road speed and engine rpm tells me that there's no slippage in the tranny and the torque converter locks up just fine.
The engine does accelerate much faster with the 46% larger injectors so don't use the stock units. It's evident that the Unichip cannot get enough fuel flow out of the stock injectors even when they're maxed out and the engine runs too lean. The 46% bigger injectors gave you the 13.0-13.5:1 air/fuel ratio that you need according to the previous dyno chart.

I could be wrong, but I think the '46% bigger injectors' is a setting on Andhi's Unichip piggyback computer, I don't think he actually installed larger injectors...
:dunno:

 

[A Satria]

Unichip - Injectors - Fuel Pressure Regulator

There's no slippage in the tranny and the torque converter locks up just fine.
Engine does accelerate much faster with the 46% larger injectors so don't use the stock units.
It's evident that the Unichip cannot get enough fuel flow out of the stock injectors even when they're maxed out and the engine runs too lean. The 46% bigger injectors gave you the 13.0-13.5:1 air/fuel ratio that you need according to the previous dyno chart.

Dr. Dyno,

At the moment ;

• Using STOCK fuel pump - Should I change ?
• No Fuel Pressure Regulator - Should I installed one of those adjustable ?, set at what psi ?

Do you think that the combination of the injectors, Unichip is quite OK ?

Do you need to see the DYNO results in a different specific format ?

NOW, What else should I do to make it performs better ?

ps: appreciate for all of the advice...

Thanks...

 

[A Satria]

Injectors

I could be wrong, but I think the '46% bigger injectors' is a setting on Andhi's Unichip piggyback computer, I don't think he actually installed larger injectors...
:dunno:

Beej,

• Actually IT IS a LARGER injectors. The injectors is capable to FLOW 46% more fuel than the STOCK Injectors units.
• So, we replace 6 of those last week before the DYNO TEST.
• Then, we FINE-TUNE the UNICHIP to regulate the pulse, timing, etc at any given specific conditions.

Thanks

 

[A Satria]

Engine Rev-Limiter / Speed Limiter on 1997 XJ ?

ALL,
Is there any Engine REV-Limiter on my 1997 XJ ?
How is it SET ?
At What RPM is it set ?
Is there any way that I can remove the max RPM Rev-Limiter ?

Is there any SPEED-Limiter on my 1997 XJ ?
How is it SET ?
At What SPEED is it set ?
Is there any way that I can remove the max SPEED-Limiter ?

 

[sangell]

DR. Dyno is correct. There is no slip in your transmission or converter.

Scott