DW, no one knows why? What the hell!!

[Jelly Role]

Answer me this! I have read a ton on Dwath Wobble and everyone has an opinion. One dude says it has to be your tires. Then why before I put my lift on everything was fine? Same tires same location, same rims, same weights? That theory is blown. Besides if it was the tires it would occur EVERY time ant the same speeds. Not just every so often, or when you hit a bump, or when in a corner at speed. Bad theory. Why can't anyone say exactly what changes when you get the DW. Why doesn't anyone have an exact fix? There has to be an exact reason if it goes on as commonly as it does. I just don't get it. One day everything is great, and the day after a 2" BB my truck is trying to kill me. Caster is good, toe in/out is good track bar is the same as it was befor the lift(I didn't touch it during install), shocks are brand new, and everything is torqued correctly. What the hell? Now I can't let my wife drive my truck for fear of killing her! I just don't get it. Has anyone talked to Chrysler about this?

Huh. I am furious and stumped. Help if you have SPECIFIC Examples of cures. Not a list of "you could try this, or you could try that" BS!

Thanks,

Jelly

 

[Yucca-Man]

One day everything is great, and the day after a 2" BB my truck is trying to kill me. Caster is good, toe in/out is good track bar is the same as it was befor the lift(I didn't touch it during install)

Get it aligned. You did change the alignment by lifting it. One reason you hear so many varying reasons for DW onset is because there is no single cause, only a plethora of contributing factors. Tires are one, you seem to have elimnated that however. Bushing condition and alignment are two other biggeis though, and you've said yourself that one of those isn't right. Fix those and then come back.

You want SPECIFIC examples? Here's one that's been heard a million tines, "I had MAD DW after doing my n" lift...getting it realigned worked for me."

 

[RokRdy]

Don't think I could have put it any better YuccaMan. Present your problem to us, but keep an open mind, especially if you don't know much about the subject. Just a suggestion.

 

[Hunter-LynchburgVa]

the point your missing is there is no clean cut exact reason to why death wobble occurs, thats why there is a list of try this and try that. there are too many variables to narrow it down to one specific thing. it would be nice to have some clean cut precise answer but thats not reality.

removing your 2" BB maybe the only thing to cure your problem, and thats a maybe. to be honest, if your that disturbed by not having a simple single solution to the problem, one of two things should happen. 1- get use to it, becase thats the hand life deals you most of the time, especially on the trail or 2- get a different hobby.

Hunter

Answer me this! I have read a ton on Dwath Wobble and everyone has an opinion. One dude says it has to be your tires. Then why before I put my lift on everything was fine? Same tires same location, same rims, same weights? That theory is blown. Besides if it was the tires it would occur EVERY time ant the same speeds. Not just every so often, or when you hit a bump, or when in a corner at speed. Bad theory. Why can't anyone say exactly what changes when you get the DW. Why doesn't anyone have an exact fix? There has to be an exact reason if it goes on as commonly as it does. I just don't get it. One day everything is great, and the day after a 2" BB my truck is trying to kill me. Caster is good, toe in/out is good track bar is the same as it was befor the lift(I didn't touch it during install), shocks are brand new, and everything is torqued correctly. What the hell? Now I can't let my wife drive my truck for fear of killing her! I just don't get it. Has anyone talked to Chrysler about this?

Huh. I am furious and stumped. Help if you have SPECIFIC Examples of cures. Not a list of "you could try this, or you could try that" BS!

Thanks,

Jelly

 

[GI-John]

Help if you have SPECIFIC Examples of cures. Not a list of "you could try this, or you could try that" BS!


Jelly

What an Inaugural post....and you actually want us to help? Maybe ask in a different tone next time.


SPECIFICS (since you asked so nicely)

86 Comanche

No probs at stock 3" lift caused mad DW at 50-55
Cure= Completely rebuilt front end parts (CA bushings, TRE's, ball joints Shocks)

It would not go away (age of components were a big part of it)

92 Cherokee
No probs at 4.5 Lifted to 6" and Mad DW at 45

Cure= New trac bar(RE heavy duty), alignment


Every Jeep is different the way it reacts to lifting, and unfortunately there isnt a specific cure. I don't remember you stating what year and options you have either.



Hope this helps

 

[Jes]

'93 XJ
3.5-5.5" lift over time.
Toasted control arm bushings.
Wasted wheel bearings.
Blown shocks.
Bad alignment.
Bad castor.
Out of ballance tires.
Bent components.
Worn out tie rod ends.
Loose parts.
Never had death wobble even once.

 

[ChuckD]

There is just something plain wrong with you Jes. Taking your junk all over JV, wheeling it hardcore and making it back home in one piece is amazing!

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Has anyone talked to Chrysler about this?


Jelly

good luck with that!

 

[Safari Ary]

'93 XJ
3.5-5.5" lift over time.
Toasted control arm bushings.
Wasted wheel bearings.
Blown shocks.
Bad alignment.
Bad castor.
Out of ballance tires.
Bent components.
Worn out tie rod ends.
Loose parts.
Never had death wobble even once.

You're just too perfect aren't you? You can hang in JV on 33s, while everyone else runs 35s minimum. You rarely break anything(or so it seems), drive your junk every day, and wheel the piss out of it on weekends. You are no longer allowed to speak to us mere mortals, we're not worthy :moon: :jester:

Just a little jealous that I can't be as cool as Jes.....

 

[MaXJohnson]

... I have read a ton on Dwath Wobble and everyone has an opinion.

Try a search on "Death Wobble" rather than "Dwath Wobble". My search returned 203 hits.

 

[gupandme]

Try a search on "Death Wobble" rather than "Dwath Wobble". My search returned 203 hits.

ditto. aperwork

 

[shimmy]

j role is a newbie is assume...

 

[Island XJ]

Dude, is your problem actually death wobble, or just vibration? I have owned several xj's over the years and done all kinds of crap to them, but I have yet to experience DW on a measly 2" of lift. My experience with DW is that the jeep literally shimmies back and forth on the road 2-5" in each direction at a rapid cycling rate and the steering wheel is hard to hang onto and wants to pull right and then left, cycling rapidly as well. Vibration is noise coming from "below" and can make your entire drivetrain and hence your jeep act like its on a vibrating bed. Brutal vibes can seem like death wobble the key to understanding that they are vibes and not DW is that vibes typically occur at a particular speed, whereas DW will occur in varying intensity throughout a larger speed range. (for example vibes may occur at 45-48mph, where DW may start mildly at 40mph and increase to a major shimmy at 50mph and taper off again at close to 60mph).
Oh and I did talk to Chrysler about another unrelated problem that came up during modifications. You know what they said? "If you don't want that problem, don't alter a stock vehicle that was engineered to perform a certain way in the first place!"

 

[bburge]

Good point about knowing the difference between Death Wobble and vibes.

Many people that I head talking about DW are really referring to bump steer. I've never had death wobble, but I do battle bump steer from mod to mod. Done the pitman arm and that helped at 3.5-4 inches, but now at 5.5 inches it's back and the stabilizer can't hide it anymore. I guess it's getting to be time for a redisigned steering (this guy is gonna LOVE that if the time comes! :shhh: )

bburge

 

[Jelly Role]

Easy fellas, easy! Yes, I am a newbie, but not a retard. Yes, I did have an alignment(with caster adjustment). No, It shouldn't be the bushings the truck only has 30k on it. Sorry for the spelling, it was 3AM after a long night at the plant. I have done many many searches for both DW and Death Wobble and found countless treads. Yes, I do know the difference between a vibe, and yanking the wheel right out of my hands. I also understand that it is odd to have such a severe case with a "measly" 2" lift. That is why I am not really in the best of spirits about the whole deal. I apologize for the tone, I meant nothing towords you all, but I just wanted to get to the point and stop having to chase my tail. No need for the sarcasm, and the imlications that I am stupid, or have no mechanical abilities, or that because I have a 2" lift I am somekind of poser or something. I am in this hobby just like you guys, I just have a family, and things to pay for as well.

All I wanted was some direct answers if anyone had some.

Jelly

 

[Jelly Role]

PS

2001 Classic
2" RRO BB
New Shocks w/ BPE's
30k miles
Aligned w/ added +caster LCA shims
wheels/tires same as before the lift, and in same position on truck
starts at 48 and can really get going til just under 60

 

[OT]

If you want straighter answers and less sarcasm then I suggest changing your user name and asking again in a less aggressive manner. Don't be so damn defensive.

Knowing most of the users on here, I can almost guarantee that If you come at us with a first post and follow-up post like you just have, you're not going to get a happy reception.

We're volunteers, in a way, not customer service or the complaint department.

Thank you. Come again.

 

[Jelly Role]

Here is my thought on the matter. What if....since the axle is moved out of center(even a little with my 2" kit), maybe the axle is trying to fight the track bar vs the LCA's vs. the coils to get back to the center position. So when you go over a bump at speed, the tires lift just enough to let the axle start that ocilaion movement up, over, down, back...etc...? So maybe it isn't the loosnes of the bar, but the length? Then any loosnes only adds to it?

I also noticed last night on my way home that if I hammer the throttle right when the DW starts, and lift the front end just a touch, it will quit. On the other hand if I hit the brakes and bring the nose down, it seems to stay the same or get worse until I get down to a lower speed.

I am just trying to think using math instead of eliminating loose parts and stuff. If everything was in one place before the lift and all was fine....maybe everything is not in its same relationship now so it is cusing the problem. Then the new problem with the suspension geometry is now magnafied by any loose parts.

 

[PhunkXJ]

Easy fellas, easy! Yes, I am a newbie, but not a retard. Yes, I did have an alignment(with caster adjustment). No, It shouldn't be the bushings the truck only has 30k on it. Sorry for the spelling, it was 3AM after a long night at the plant. I have done many many searches for both DW and Death Wobble and found countless treads. Yes, I do know the difference between a vibe, and yanking the wheel right out of my hands. I also understand that it is odd to have such a severe case with a "measly" 2" lift. That is why I am not really in the best of spirits about the whole deal. I apologize for the tone, I meant nothing towords you all, but I just wanted to get to the point and stop having to chase my tail. No need for the sarcasm, and the imlications that I am stupid, or have no mechanical abilities, or that because I have a 2" lift I am somekind of poser or something. I am in this hobby just like you guys, I just have a family, and things to pay for as well.

All I wanted was some direct answers if anyone had some.

Jelly

I had SEVERE DW on my stock ZJ, the trac bar, steering stabilizer, TRE's, were all shot and my tires were too. Fixed all that and it rides great now.

My XJ had DW right after I lifted it but I don't know exactly what the problem was, I just fixed everything and eventually it went away.

 

[Jelly Role]

Once again, I appologize! I am a to the point person. I don't sugar coat crap. I am sorry If I didn't ask in the right tone, or if I offended any of you with my first or second posts. All I wanted was specific examples of cures. I have been around and around with this problem with so many people, it is just getting to my last nerve. I have called manufacturers, I have done countless searches, and I have been on all kinds of Jeep boards, I have talked to my automotive engineers at my Plant, I have spoken with the alignment shop, and my Jeep dealer. I am flat out of ideas.

My concern is not because of a so so ride, poor handling or 'cuase I am not "hardcore" enough to deal with this. My real concern stems from the fact that I don't want this thing to kill my wife or anyone else in my family!

Once again, my sincere appologies.

Jelly