DW, no one knows why? What the hell!!

OK, the post about the trackbar and LCA's show a some thought. It also ties into what others have been saying "not usually a problem in 2" of lift - look for an aggravating condition" (not DW, a different aggravation! :confused1 )

As for braking vs accelerating - think more about the force being applied to the tires when you hit the brakes (I would guess. I that's frustrating, but if any of us had a SUREFIRE cure for DW - we'd be charging you, and others, a LOT for it!) You you brake, you are keeping the tires from rotating as fast as they want to go (want=momentum) and the added effect of the nose dropping only puts more force on the tires. Accelerating doesn't inhibit the motion of the tires/wheels and might reduce force and allow it to "ride out".

Sorry dude, just thoughts. You have to apply them where you feel/see fit. Even at 30K miles, it could be a bad steering damper or shot ball joint.

bburge
 
You want a clear cut, straight forward, exact answer to the death wobble problem?

Take off your lift, and sell it to me ...at a reduced rate of course, so I can sell it off.

I need more positive cash flow to up my Jeep refurb fundage :soapbox:

I think the NAXJA sticker has cured many a DW problem.... :smoker:
 
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Yucca-Man said:
..... only a plethora of contributing factors. "
Click to expand...

If you use the word plethora, you have to use other 4x4 mag words, like "venerable". :)

Such as "the venerable Jeep 4.0 should stop Death Wobble in it's tracks".
 
Specific example here, infact 2 of them on the same rig:

87 Jeep Cherokee.. bought for 1100, had sever death wobble over 50mph. Front tires were suspect, very worn and severely cupped. Moved the rears to the front and front to the rears and the problem did not go away, but was not as violent as before. Took the tires that were now on the front in and had them spin-balanced at the tire store, put them back on, and the DW was practically gone. Still a little shimmy in the wheel, but not as violent. I eventually ended up replacing the LCA and UCA bushings, the track bar and one wheel bearing to get it to ride completely smooth on the highway.

Same 87 Jeep Cherokee, now on 32's. Immediately upon putting 32's on, DW was back and as violent as ever... had the tires rebalanced again, made it a little better. Replaced the driver's side wheel bearing, getting better but still shaking at 55mph, and finally just yesterday I replaced the TRE at the pitman arm on the top end of the drag link... the old one was badly worn. Now, I can drive it at highway speeds with a tiny bit of shimmy in the steering wheel (mind you the 32's are swampers, so a little bit of wierd handling is expected).

My point is, usually Death Wobble is not something that is caused by one thing. It's usually due to worn components or mis-alignment, but does not always rear it's ugly head in those situations. It needs something to set it off, unbalanced tires, uneven roadway, a change in suspension geometry due to lift, etc. There are so many variables that play into the coil spring front suspension that our XJ's have that it's impossible for us to tell you exactly what the problem is. Rest-assured, we've all (most of us) been there before with this type of frustrating problem, but it is solveable, you just need to do some inspection and troubleshooting. Start with the simplest or most cost-effective things first.
 
what has changed? the day before the lift all was well. the day after all hell breaks loose.

toe in /out changed....alligned it
LCA's changed dimention, but had them shimmed to get caster back in spec
shock length changed(new shocks)...put on BPE's back to stock
tires/wheels/weights same in same position on truck
bushings all the same as before
steering stabilizer same as before w/ no probs
track bar......hmmm it seems to be the only thing that has changed its geometry. granted the bushings may be worn, but taht didn't cause any wobble before the lift. Sooo, could that mean that the length is the problem? I just keep thinking it has to be in the geometry of the suspension/steering setup. Otherwise it should have done it before the lift too? I just can't srop thinking about it.
 
I read recently on here that there is a FSB on '01 LCA bushings being too soft... I know that my wife's '01 Limited acted like it had DW (not saying it did) just with warped rotors... the soft bushings exaggerated the oscillations. My '97 had DW after bumping the lift from 4" to 5.5" from worn LCA bushings. Maybe the combination of having '01 soft bushings and a slight lift is your problem? Try stiffer lower control arm bushings, either stock rubber replacements with the corrected durometer or aftermarket polyurethane. I hope this helps, since I'm sure I'll run into this when I boost the Upcountry suspension on our '01. I do feel a little more oscillation than I should when hitting bumps at speed, so I think it is all related.
 
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Im at work right now reading this, so I connected to our chrysler internet site to check for tsb's.Wer do have onefor 01 xj's for the "death wobble",it calls for replacing all 4 front control arms. If your xj is still under warranty go to your dealer and tell them you hav a "shimmy" when you hit a bump in the road ,they SHOULD cover it
 
Jelly,
You said you researched all you could find about DW. If that's so you should know DW is ALL About the geometry. DW is caused by the resonant frequency of vibration in the front end components. When designed, the angles of caster, camber, tie rods etc are figured in to minimize Fo [read F sub O] (Resonent Frequency). That's why there is a steering stabilizer on your Jeep. To absorb vibrations before sending components (even ball joints) into resonent frequency.
When we lift our vehicles, the one constant, independent of lift size, is we change the geometry of the steering components in relation to the other components. That's why company's make and sell, drop pitman arms, Drop track bar brackets, adjustable track bars, adjustable length control arms, and over the knuckle steering set ups. It's ALL about the geometry.
The solution is to trouble shoot the problem until you find the offending component or components that are going into resonance and causing the steering to oscillate.
I've been trouble shooting my 2000 TJ for two months. I'm changing the tie rod ends and steering stabilzer this sunday. It's an iterative process, one tree at a time, as they say. ( in that you can't cut down the whole forest at once, It's one tree at a time)
So start looking at what you have not changed as opposed to what you have changed. Perhaps a longer track bar, or drop the pitman arm, or even make sure the disk brake rotors aren't warped are places to start.
But saying you have read everything available on the subject and then asking for a one stop solution is inconsistant.
 
XJZ said:
If you use the word plethora, you have to use other 4x4 mag words, like "venerable". :)

Such as "the venerable Jeep 4.0 should stop Death Wobble in it's tracks".
Click to expand...
PPpppbbbfffffffffffftttttt!!!!

It's exhilirating what I can post at 0-dark-thirty in a caffeine-deficient state.

This is an excerpt of something posted by Tom Houston (old_man) awhile back about DW; he knows what he's talking about and confirms that there's no single thing that causes (or fixes) DW:
Tom Houston -

DW's are caused by a rather simple problem, but one that can be hard
to track down. Your suspension system (which includes the body) is
out of equilibrium. Energy is being temporarily stored somewhere and
then released, and the cycle repeated. Energy storage can be in many
different areas. It can be in the sidewalls of the tires flexing, or
the rubber in the bushings of the springs and control arms, or in the
springs, or even in the flex of the body. The energy being stored is
caused by something being loose in the system, such as ball joints,
tie rods, control arm bushings, leaf spring bushings, motor mounts,
etc. or something out of alignment.

What makes things tricky is that you can have all of these problems
and have no DW. It has to do with the rate at which the energy is
stored and released. If the storage and release rates are close to
the same, you are in for trouble. That is why changing tires many
times will kill DW. The new tires are stiffer or softer than the old
ones and as such store and release the energy at a different rate.
The purpose of a steering damper is to change the rate of storage and
release of the energy, just as are your shocks.

I say all of this to point out that you can have all of the equipment
working correctly and still have DW, but in most cases I have seen,
there is a defective component that you haven't found yet. My first
rule of thumb is to check all the rubber parts first. They fail the
quickest and store/release the most energy. Second is to look for
loose connections/connectors such as tie rod ends. Third is to get
out a tape measure and check that you have approx .125" of toe in
(difference in the distances between the front edge of the front of
the tires and the rear edge of the tires. After that I check the
castor. Lack of castor leads to a unstable system.

If all else fails, you need to retune the system. Start with a new
stabilizer if it is old or go to poly CA bushings.
Click to expand...
 
Yucca-Man said:
If all else fails, you need to retune the system. Start with a new stabilizer if it is old or go to poly CA bushings.
Click to expand...

I've always considered replacing the steering stabilizer just a "cover up" for the actual problem. But after my 3in lift I had death wobble when ever I hit a bump going more then 45mph. Rather then spend money on parts I couldn' afford, I just replaced the steering stabilizer and my problem's been gone for 3years.

Matt
 
I consider the steering stabilizer to be a 'cover-up' as well in many cases, and as you can see from Tom's statement I believe he does as well, hence the "if all else fails" portion. However, I feel that in some cases it does need to be replaced, but only after other avenues have been checked out.
 
I currently am suffering from the Death Wobble. It happens only between 50-55 mph. I know you said "don't tell me 'try this, try that'" but I seriously recommend having someone examine the movement of the trackbar while the car is parked, turned on, and you turn the steering wheel back and forth. After that, how old is the steering stabilizer? And maybe you could get your head out of your ass, relax a little bit, spend $20, give up that macho Mr. Fix-it attitude and take your POS to a dealer. It's worth it.
 
Well, wise ass, I did speak to my Jeep dealer, and they had no answers. The service manager was just as vague. And I did check the movement with the truck running and a buddy turning the wheel(it is tight). And as far as the stabilizer goes it is the same age as it was before the lift with no DW.
 
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