Drop pitman arm/track bar questions....

[wheelin79cj]

I just recently finished lifting a '99 Cherokee 4.5" and installing a TnT Y-link setup. It rides great, but I would say it only drives "OK". Something just isn't quite right. I am leaning toward steering angles. Specifically, I think it needs a drop pitman arm since it now has the RE1665 track bar drop bracket. Here are my current questions...

1) I was originally told that I didn't need a drop pitman arm for 4.5", what is the consensus around here?

2) I have been seeing a few different amounts of drop for the pitman arm. Does anyone know how much the RE1665 drops the track bar mount? I already ditched the stock bracket without thinking about it and I know the track bar and drag link should be parallel. I figure if I can find out how far the track bar is dropped and drop the pitman arm that far it should be "perfect".

3) At 4.5" should I bee looking at an OTK steering setup? I notice the TRE is getting close to maxed out, but a drop pitman should help some at getting that angle better, just not sure how much.

Thanks for the advice and experience. Love the Jeep, just trying to get the details worked out.
-Aaron

 

[Blaine B.]

Call Rough Country, they offer pitman arms for 4.5" or 6.5"-7" lifts that are not listed on the website. Cheaper than any other place I have seen by a long shot! Just got one in the 6.5"-7" variant today....payed less than $60.00 too! All of the other places want $150.00 or more....

Technically if you get a drop pitman you should have an over the axle tracbar mount in order to make the angles as parallel as possible. I am not really worried about bump steer though, I'd rather have that versus an overextending and binding tierod end that is going to break and leave me with no steering (already has happened once)

I just went to over the knuckle a few weeks ago. I am running the Rusty's tracbar mount and tracbar along with their steering conversion and the Go-Fer-It OTK knuckle inserts.

 

[wheelin79cj]

Right on...Well, I guess if they make them for that height then they are at least potentially needed if not a requirement huh? I still need to get a bit better informed on this subject before I run off and start buying parts though. Thanks for the source and insight.
-Aaron

 

[Blaine B.]

Well I ran a 3" with 3" lift shocks and didn't need one. Then I went up to about 5" or so while still using the 3" shocks and didn't need one of course I didn't have a whole lot of droop.

But now I am at 7" with 8" shocks and have plenty of droop where the need to allow plenty of room for the tierod end to move around without binding or over extending is necessary.

If you order the 4" drop pitman I'd be interested to see what it measures out to. They did not have any measurements for the drop pitmans so I am only estimating that the 6.5"-7" drop pitman is roughly 3" longer than the stock pitman arm.

 

[wheelin79cj]

Well I ran a 3" with 3" lift shocks and didn't need one. Then I went up to about 5" or so while still using the 3" shocks and didn't need one of course I didn't have a whole lot of droop.

But now I am at 7" with 8" shocks and have plenty of droop where the need to allow plenty of room for the tierod end to move around without binding or over extending is necessary.

If you order the 4" drop pitman I'd be interested to see what it measures out to. They did not have any measurements for the drop pitmans so I am only estimating that the 6.5"-7" drop pitman is roughly 3" longer than the stock pitman arm.

If I end up getting one I will let you all know. I have found a 1", 1.5" and 3" Drop pitman for sure...and who knows the drop on some of them...they don't list them. I am guessing the 1.5" or so would be for the 4-5" crowd. I think you can get 1" from a ZJ pitman, but I am not positive. Might just be internet rumor.
-Aaron

 

[dgrigorenko]

the best way to determine this is to use some string and lay them from bolt to bolt on your trackbar and measure what it would take to get things paralell... no guess work.

 

[Begster]

Can you show us pictures of your steering geometry? That would help us to determine what would need to be done, if anything.

A straight on shot from everything from the bottom of the bumper to the ground would be great.

 

[wheelin79cj]

I have a good understanding of the concept, I was just figuring if it was correct from the factory, then dropping the pitman the same amount as the track bar would keep it correct. However, I have no problem posting up a picture...It will however have to wait until tonight, since the wife just left with it to work....lol. Thanks for the help.
-Aaron

 

[RCP Phx]

There is no drop with the RE bracket(its exacly the same as stock),so NO you do not want/need a drop pitman arm!

 

[wheelin79cj]

There is no drop with the RE bracket(its exacly the same as stock),so NO you do not want/need a drop pitman arm!

Hmm, Interesting. It looks lower, but looks can be decieving, especially since the style is different. Regardless, here are the pictures. Let me know what you think.
-Aaron

 

[wheelin79cj]

I was just looking at the pictures and realized I didn't get the actual pitman arm, hopefully you can see what needs to be seen. Sorry about that.
-Aaron

 

[Begster]

No need for a drop pitman arm with those angles. That will only mess up your angles, and give you bump steer.

 

[wheelin79cj]

I did notice that in the picture it looked good. It seems easier to see in the picture than in person for some reason. I agree that the track bar and drag link look to be at pretty much the same angle, but are there any options to help get the tie rod and sleeve more horizontal. I would think that with the inverted V being made where the draglink and tie rods come together any change in ride height (specifically over bumps) would cause some pretty significant toe changes. Is this just something that has to be dealt with?
-Aaron

 

[RCP Phx]

I did notice that in the picture it looked good. It seems easier to see in the picture than in person for some reason. I agree that the track bar and drag link look to be at pretty much the same angle, but are there any options to help get the tie rod and sleeve more horizontal. I would think that with the inverted V being made where the draglink and tie rods come together any change in ride height (specifically over bumps) would cause some pretty significant toe changes. Is this just something that has to be dealt with?
-Aaron

Its an inverted Y,but yes toe will change,just not enough to be concerned with on the road.You could always do a raised Drivers Side TRE,that will help alot with that also.

 

[wheelin79cj]

Ok, ok. Inverted Y, fair enough. Either way, I am somewhat interested in the raised drivers side TRE. I will do a search, but any information on this would be appreciated.

Also, what specifically if the reason to go over the knuckle aside from higher clearance? Is this something that can be done at 4.5 inches of lift or does it need to be higher for it to work right? I was hoping to do that in the future regardless, so might as well start gathering information now. I sure miss the steering linkage where the tie rods run straight between the knuckles without a pivot. It is a lot easier to get right.
-Aaron