Chinaman's Gulch aftermath |Run - Sun - Fun - Dun

[zith]

zith: You and J-9 just became my favorite people! :yelclap:

Those pics are great!!!! Most pics of hills never capture the true angles, but these sure turned out nicely! Thanks a bunch for sticking it out in the rain/snow to get these shots! :thumbup:

I ought to give my camera to J-9 more often. She did get some good shots.

I think I'm going to have to party agree with Led on this though. Although the pictures make the hill look pretty extreme, I think that's only because in person it's absolutely INSANE... or maybe should I say the two people who chose to drive down it are. Thanks for the entertainment!

 

[in4aride]

I ought to give my camera to J-9 more often. She did get some good shots.

I think I'm going to have to party agree with Led on this though. Although the pictures make the hill look pretty extreme, I think that's only because in person it's absolutely INSANE... or maybe should I say the two people who chose to drive down it are. Thanks for the entertainment!

agreed...camera person did awesome...
also agreed...led is out of his *^%#@&# MIND! :shocked:

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

And that's exactly why we did it....... Snow/rain be damned, who needed traction when we had gravity! That run was a total kick in the pants brutha. :thumbup:

Glad ya had some fun, love that trail system!! I do seem to remember someone being a little wishy washy about the weather and now a " Snow/rain be damned" comment................:roflmao:

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

agreed...camera person did awesome...
also agreed...led is out of his *^%#@&# MIND! :shocked:

............:yap: That ain't nothin.......................

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Looks like Carnage lived up to it's name.

Blew out a RockKrawler joint. Fixed it today and found this:

Cracked welds on the TNT D44 truss. I guess that upper control arm puts some serious tweaking on that truss.

 

[DrMoab]

Holy Cow...Colorado folks do know how to wheel.

 

[Skully]

Looks like Carnage lived up to it's name.

Blew out a RockKrawler joint. Fixed it today and found this:



Cracked welds on the TNT D44 truss. I guess that upper control arm puts some serious tweaking on that truss.

Looks like regular mig welding on the cast housing of the axle. mig welding on cast has no where near the strength as on standard steel. I had a pro welder show me a way to do it, 1.) use an arc welder (if you can) and stick that biyatch, 2.) but first heat the area with a torch then weld it, then use the torch to slowly cool down...................

Your front is a three link right? I had on my CJ-7 a similar setup and tweaked my axle truss design a couple times to compensate for the sheer amount of stress that happens!

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Looks like regular mig welding on the cast housing of the axle. mig welding on cast has no where near the strength as on standard steel. I had a pro welder show me a way to do it, 1.) use an arc welder (if you can) and stick that biyatch, 2.) but first heat the area with a torch then weld it, then use the torch to slowly cool down...................

Your front is a three link right? I had on my CJ-7 a similar setup and tweaked my axle truss design a couple times to compensate for the sheer amount of stress that happens!

Good advise Skully, that is what I would do!! It looks like that weld to the cast is single bead and high........... no wonder it did not hold for shit!! :dunno:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Yeah, upon first glance, I was afraid that the axle tube was coming out of the housing or had twisted somehow, but the plug welds are intact. It's obviously just the stress from that single upper link that's put some rocking motion on the truss and cracked the welds. There aren't any welds to attach the truss to the arc across the top of the housing.

The plan is to try to grind a v-notch through the busted welds and hit 'em with a hotter weld, and with a slower pass. Then I'll look for areas to add additional support. There's a large gap between the spring perch and the truss that I'll be addressing, and then I gotta look for a few more places to weld the truss to the housing on both sides of the truss to give that single UCA mount some support.

I don't have an arc welder so that's not an option, but you're saying that I should heat the cast housing before welding to it? Do I make it glow red, or just get it good and hot?

I'm gonna pull the entire front axle to make the repairs, the front axle seals are leaking and need replaced anyway. Then (gasp) I may paint it so Skully can sleep at night......

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Yeah, upon first glance, I was afraid that the axle tube was coming out of the housing or had twisted somehow, but the plug welds are intact. It's obviously just the stress from that single upper link that's put some rocking motion on the truss and cracked the welds. There aren't any welds to attach the truss to the arc across the top of the housing.

The plan is to try to grind a v-notch through the busted welds and hit 'em with a hotter weld, and with a slower pass. Then I'll look for areas to add additional support. There's a large gap between the spring perch and the truss that I'll be addressing, and then I gotta look for a few more places to weld the truss to the housing on both sides of the truss to give that single UCA mount some support.

I don't have an arc welder so that's not an option, but you're saying that I should heat the cast housing before welding to it? Do I make it glow red, or just get it good and hot?

I'm gonna pull the entire front axle to make the repairs, the front axle seals are leaking and need replaced anyway. Then (gasp) I may paint it so Skully can sleep at night......

I would get it to the point of starting to glow. Clean/grind it good so the metals are bright. Borrow an Arc and hit it with some 6013 1/8".

 

[Skully]

I don't have an arc welder so that's not an option, but you're saying that I should heat the cast housing before welding to it? Do I make it glow red, or just get it good and hot?

I'm gonna pull the entire front axle to make the repairs, the front axle seals are leaking and need replaced anyway. Then (gasp) I may paint it so Skully can sleep at night......

Oops sorry didn't clarify how hot to get it.............what Raptor said basically. When I did mine I got it little RED then had my buddy with his ARC welder run a bead (he was the pro welder) he let it cool just below little RED before he ran the bead, not sure if that was on purpose or he was just slow. When he was done, he said just keep it hot with the torch, but start backing off how many seconds you hold the torch on it over the course of a minute or so.

He explained it to me but I do not remember the whole explanation why mild steel and cast is different, it has something to do with the Iron content, cast is more susceptible to the heat from welding and if you let it get hot or cold too fast it will weaken it. ARC is actually stronger than MIG per square inch he said, now if you can get a TIG welder ? :laugh3: ......................try it with your MIG, but ultimately someone around here has an ARC?

I had exactly the same probs, all the welds on my truss on the mild steel would hold but I would find the welds on the cast parts would break the welds perfectly where I ran the bead. Then my acquaintance showed me that trick and it never broke again. The part I did to make the truss stronger was to make the area on top of the pumpkin have extra contact and welded it there, this is also where my UCA went to. Which sounds like your plans there..............................keep mindfull where you are heating up, don't want to get too hot and damage bearings, seals etc.

Still made me nervous how many times it cracked the weld there so I would check all the time................paranoid I was!


Yes paint it please..............poor JEEP, poor Riddler cover.....................

 

[Stang5lgt]

Oops sorry didn't clarify how hot to get it.............what Raptor said basically. When I did mine I got it little RED then had my buddy with his ARC welder run a bead (he was the pro welder) he let it cool just below little RED before he ran the bead, not sure if that was on purpose or he was just slow. When he was done, he said just keep it hot with the torch, but start backing off how many seconds you hold the torch on it over the course of a minute or so.

He explained it to me but I do not remember the whole explanation why mild steel and cast is different, it has something to do with the Iron content, cast is more susceptible to the heat from welding and if you let it get hot or cold too fast it will weaken it. ARC is actually stronger than MIG per square inch he said, now if you can get a TIG welder ? :laugh3: ......................try it with your MIG, but ultimately someone around here has an ARC?

I had exactly the same probs, all the welds on my truss on the mild steel would hold but I would find the welds on the cast parts would break the welds perfectly where I ran the bead. Then my acquaintance showed me that trick and it never broke again. The part I did to make the truss stronger was to make the area on top of the pumpkin have extra contact and welded it there, this is also where my UCA went to. Which sounds like your plans there..............................keep mindfull where you are heating up, don't want to get too hot and damage bearings, seals etc.

Still made me nervous how many times it cracked the weld there so I would check all the time................paranoid I was!


Yes paint it please..............poor JEEP, poor Riddler cover.....................

There is high carbon level in cast iron that is why it harder to weld. It will make it crack and flake if not done right. Here is link to weld cast. You do not have to preheat if you stitch weld it and peening the metal with a peening hammer. Also need a rod with a nickel in it.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/castironpreheat.asp

 

[Skully]

There is high carbon level in cast iron that is why it harder to weld. It will make it crack and flake if not done right. Here is link to weld cast. You do not have to preheat if you stitch weld it and peening the metal with a peening hammer. Also need a rod with a nickel in it.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/castironpreheat.asp

Good article Stang! .............the power of the internet. :farmer:


You got an ARC welder YELLA can borrow?

 

[Frank Z]

The center section is Cast Steel, not Cast Iron. A MIG welder using a shielding gas (I prefer CO2) will work just fine.

 

[Skully]

The center section is Cast Steel, not Cast Iron. A MIG welder using a shielding gas (I prefer CO2) will work just fine.

Whether iron or steel still certain ways to weld cast properly for strength. Unless you are using self shielding/flux core, MIG gas is C02/argon, unless you are welding with straight argon, you saying weld it with straight CO2?

Done it, did it, kept having problems with my weld cracking on the cast housing until I did what was described above.

The link Stang provided is a good article on how to do it properly.

 

[Frank Z]

CO2 provides for a stronger weld, CO2-Argon makes a prettier weld.

I welded my truss to the center section of my front 44 without any preheat and have not had any problems with cracked welds. Maybe i just got lucky.

I've also welded the tubes and centers together on a few Ford 8.8 axles and those haven't cracked or spun either.

 

[Skully]

Where's JDWelding when you need his opinion? :jester:


Hey since this thread got off on a tangent I had a question for the guys running this trail.

Why did you guys go down Carnage BV but did not come up it? Truggy is capable, and LED has some balls, the others could just meet you at the junction, just curious?

 

[Hypoid]

I'm going to disagree with everyone and say don't weld to the cast.

First, after reading stuff like this: http://naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=243935733&postcount=8

So I talked to Bob at TnT and he said what I need to do is cut a groove in the cast spring perch so that the truss can fit down into it

I like that solution better then trimming the truss, the truss would have been pretty thin if I cut off that much material

He also said not to weld to the cast center section at all, just to the tubes

So I'll work on cutting a groove in that perch and see how it fits then

It is not a question "how do I?", but "should I?", and what other solutions are practical for a home work-shop?

Second: In another post you mentioned filling the gap between the truss and the spring perch. I like the idea. Why not take that unitizing a step further and make plates to join the truss to the axle tube and spring perch?

I can hook you up with some heavy flat stock...It might have fallen off a rail car :eyes:... Cost you some bubba points.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

We ran it backwards for 2 reasons:

1) We'd just run Chinamans with the group (7 of us) and were done by 1:30pm when we came to the junction above Carnage.

2) Led had always wanted to run it backwards and I'd run it normally twice myself so the change was very intriguing.


Turned out to be a blast running it backwards! Nothing like putting your adrenaline in hyper-mode right off the start! :thumbup:

I imagine those truss welds really got worked BECAUSE we ran it backwards - lots of nose-down drops, putting lots of weight on the front axle/suspension repeatedly.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I can hook you up with some heavy flat stock...It might have fallen off a rail car :eyes:... Cost you some bubba points.

PM sent....... :thumbup: