Build thread for project "why am I doing this"

I was working on installing my lift some today. Got most of the front end apart when i decided that since the axle is nearly completely out I may as well truss it and replace all the consumable components. I was doing some research on tie rod ends when I saw that I could use 99+ grand cherokee knuckles for an upgrade. Someone please educate me why I need crossover otk steering. And is this worth the trouble?

There won't be much XJ left on this thing if it keeps going at this rate.
 
The WJ steering is a great upgrade for the XJ. Its a double upgrade actually. Not only do you get cross over steering but you get larger diameter rotors and double piston calipers. Its a little labor intensive, but well worth it.

Parts you need are:

WJ knuckles
WJ Calipers (akebono model are preferred)
WJ rotors, redrilled to match 5 on 4.5
2001 xj Unit bearings (hubs) For the correct rotor alignment, you need this year of unit bearing
WJ ball joints ( less confusion as to which ones to buy just buy WJ both top and bottom)
JKS spacer plate (welds to the knuckle to space the unit bearing outboard to achieve proper alignment of the axle joints during a turn)
You will need to move your track bar to an over the axle mount to get it back inline with the drag link.
last but not least, you'll need new steering. I recommend ruffstuff's one ton kit. You can use heims or TREs.

Like I said, labor intensive, and kinda expensive, but well worth it.

There are tons of threads on this upgrade, I also have some info on my build.
 
Jeepedo129 said:
The WJ steering is a great upgrade for the XJ. Its a double upgrade actually. Not only do you get cross over steering but you get larger diameter rotors and double piston calipers. Its a little labor intensive, but well worth it.


I understand the brakes. But not the steering part. Why do I want this? Please understand that I just don't understand the value. I'm sure it is there or nobody would do it. I just don't know what it is.
Click to expand...
 
Just a note on the JKS spacers: I recently ordered some and was not impressed with what I got. Supposed to be bare metal (you need to weld them after all) and they were painted black. Also fit loose as a goose on the unit bearing. I don't know what the OE tolerances are for fit between the unit bearing and the knuckle, but the few I have taken apart have been pretty snug fits. I figure it is a rather important attachment point. I am making my own spacers.

Not having purchased said spacers in the past I can't say if this is the way they have always been or if this is the result of some bone-headed move on the part of new management and bean counters.

Also note that you will be relocating your sway bar and track bar in order to deal with the new steering arrangement. Plan on cutting off the existing mounts for those and welding in new mounts (on the axle side of the equation).

I think the brake lines need to be a bit longer for the new calipers, but you are probably already looking at that for your lift. Only issue would be if you have already got the new lines and now need them to be even longer yet.

I have not yet done my conversion, but everyone who has done it swears by it.
 
adanymous said:
I understand the brakes. But not the steering part. Why do I want this? Please understand that I just don't understand the value. I'm sure it is there or nobody would do it. I just don't know what it is.
Click to expand...

The main advantage of OTK steering is to move the tie rod higher. The stock tie-rod mounting is in front of and below the axle, so it finds rocks and stumps and gets bent, so you need to bend it back and/or replace it often. Moving it up over the axle gets it out of way. There are other solutions but they introduce other problems or are much more difficult, while the WJ steering gets your tie rod out of the way and preserves the factory geometry and intermediate difficulty. There are other positive arguments for using other approaches too, but hopefully this answers the specific question
 
Thanks for the help guys. I guess if OTK steering is the way to go I should pursue that as well. I have some time to acquire the parts while I get the rear end in. Iron Rock got my parts to me finally so I can work on that now. Also can get the cargo area floor in and get my transfer case rebuilt. Ill look at the various ways of doing it. Though WJ knuckles sounds pretty much like the least expensive way, which Im a big fan of.

On another note. I will have to drop my drag link for the new engine to have clearance. I know some guys use a drop pitman arm. Does anyone know if that has any negative effect on the steering box? I know of one guy who did the om617 conversion who used a steering box from a mid 70s f100 and got the right drop and a stronger box. I am considering this, but only if the new pitman arm causes extra strain on the stock box. I havent found anything saying the stock box is a weak point on the system. But I dont know if larger tires and heavier steering components put a strain on it and cause it to eventually fail. Please let me know what you think.
 
Again, the most important thing is what kind of wheeling. The stock assembly uses an aluminum spacer/bracket between the gear box and the sheetmetal, but if you stick the front tires in between boulders and turn the steering, the sheetmetal will still deflect and the aluminum spacer will shatter. Something else might break before then but that is the weakest point by far. Most people replace the aluminum bracket with a steel piece, and plate the other side of the frame rail to sandwich the sheetmetal. For light wheeling, stock is fine but should be upgraded when you work on it. Pittman arm is not an issue unless you are lifting high up.
 
Thanks, I had planned on plating the frame there. I didnt know about the aluminum spacer though. So thanks for that.

Ill look at the one ton steering too...another thing Im not sure why I need it.

This started out as such a simple project......
 
You don't need any of it unless you plan to run around in terrain that will break the stock gear. Some upgrades are really easy and those make a lot of sense. Things like ZJ tie-rod is a bolt-on upgrade, and even though it stays under the knuckle it is solid heavy bar instead of a hollow piece like stock XJ tie rod. The WJ outer knuckle swap gets you big brakes and over the knuckle but requires some fabrication work, its an intermediate upgrade with a high payoff. But its not needed.
 
Well, I got the front end out. Working on putting my front stiffeners on got the passenger side on today, Had to drop the front bumper. This thing looks like something the scrap yard would send to the recycler at this point. Id pull the motor but then it might look like too much of a project....Leaving it is a psychological comfort. Even though its gotta go.

Anyhow I was working on the rear end. The springs went it easily one way and didn't act like they would go the other. but my rear end is too far back in the wheel well. If I flipped the springs it would be right. They should go either way right?

Also does anyone have a tip on getting the body side bolt out of the LCA bushings, a 4 lb estwing and a ton of whacks didn't do much more than deform the end of the bolt...gonna get new ones anyway. Id think there should be a steel bushing inside the rubber and the bolt would come out easily. But it doesn't wanna. i was gonna just use my plasma to cut the LCA mounts out of the way but it is being a PITA and doesn't wanna function. So its gotta go get fixed too.
 
Also the only thing I have found about pinion angle for the rear end swap is that some guy set his at 15 degrees cause his stock one was at 11 with a +4 shim Im not sure why the shim. Does that sound right. Everything else Ive read just says point it at the TC output, but that seems like some pretty rough math. Does anyone have a 8.8 and could you give me your pinion angle, if its held up that is.
 
That previous thread even confuses me. SO the other guys PA was 11 degrees final value stock. It was 15 with a -4 shim. So he set his at 11 not 15, I think...sorry for the confusion, and the possibility of this being even more confusion.
 
Been a bit busy, but got the lift in, decided 5.5 was too short so I added another 2 with add a leafs and spacers in the front. i have the 8.8 mocked up, but because Im doing an engine swap Im not welding it in case the engine mounts a bit weird and causes unforeseen changes in the future.

I also decided I needed a front truss, so I did that, and top and bottom C gussets. Gonna start on getting the cargo area pan in on mon or tues. Then out with the t case and transmission for rebuilds. Might as well take out the motor then too I guess.
 
I have been wondering what became of you.

I was afraid you got buried under the WJ swap info. :looney:

Good to hear from you again.
 
Motor, Trans and Tcase are out. The Tcase is apart, I broke the pump somehow so I am waiting for a replacement. The trans is at the local trans shop for a refresh. The motor is currently on the local jeep club Facebook page hoping it finds a new owner soon. Ive got most of the work on the rear pan done. But Im having to fab up new corners for all the edges. And I had to make the rounded part where it transitions to the rear floor. It currently looks like crap but with a bit of grinding and some seam sealer it should look like new. Just found out Im moving to SC....awesome. Love the military life (sarcasm). SO I have to get this thing trailer worthy in the next 2 months. No steering at all in the rig. I was gonna do some fancy plasma work and make some reinforcements for the steering gear, but my plasma dropped a deuce. Its at the repair shop too. SO I have about 5 hrs worth of work finishing the rear pan before I am basically waiting for other stuff to happen.
 
this thread would be much more interesting with some input....honestly. I used to check it frequently hoping for some pointers, but they never come.
 
you need pics to get feedback. I have posted almost 2,000 images in my build thread. When i stop posting images, people stop giving feedback..
 
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