Buggy-fied XJ/MJ folks speak up!

[4ward]

Most folks here have given good points. I suppose the real questions you need to ask yourself are: Do I wanna be a panzy with a roof? Do I wanna be a panzy with A/C & heat? Do I haul multiple people around all the time? Do I need to haul everything including the kitchen sink when I go trailriding?

You can turn a XJ into something pretty badass. There are a few examples out there, but ask those people how much time they have into their platforms. You can far exceed the performance of the baddest XJ with a buggy that is in it's earliest stages of inception.

We also have to look at your location. I believe it's called "The land of if you ain't got 40's and 400hp you ain't shit boy" (And I do mean boy).

I've got more to say, but I need to head off to work.

 

[Beezil]

When most people look at tubbed XJ's, seems like the main reaction is "why didn't you just build a tube buggy?"

there are a couple easy answers:

my xj was free
my xj was rusted to shit
I was bored
Becuase i can.

then there are the other reasons

the sheetmetal was 'im my way'
the need for 100-percent function, and no luxuries
huge weight savings (heavy rigs suck)
building a rig so ugly that it removes all emotional attatchment
rollover proofing
using the cherokee platform as a "test bed" to LEARN how to build a PROPER tube buggy once you are ready.
because I can.

I will tell you honestly, that driving a tubed-xj is probably the most rewarding jeep experience I've ever had. Since i wrench so hard on jeeps, it is very easy for me to form emotional attatchments. My CJ-6 was SUPPOSED to be the rig I wheeled hard, but yet, never did to the extent I wanted to. It was too pretty, simply stated.....things got off on the right track once i was given a free XJ shitbox to mess around with, complete with its "bend over, I'll drive" sticker on it.....that's basically the attitude I've had cutting it, building it, and wheeling it.....its the "bend over, here it comes" philosophy to jeeping.

wheeling a tube buggy is truly liberating. Rolling will become "one of those things".

 

[bgcntry72]

Excellent points!!!

My XJ is my 3rd one, and it does what I need it to now more than ever. I have a wife, 2 kids, and a 10 year old Shar Pei that smells as though he has been dead for the last two.
My rig currently sits on about 4" of OME lift with 31"s. Nothing but a support vehicle for the PBB crew and the kids who get a Cherokee one weekend, and a RE 5.5" XJLA lift the next.
I can hammer along at 90mph with stock gearing, and the rear locker gets me through most trails, so far. I carry a couple of spares, but this rig is built to help my family and I see more of the country and be comfy doing it. I may regear soon, to get some MPG back, and for towing my boat. For the most part, though, it is exactly what I want.
I live in Wisconsin, so I am biased to something that is a trail rig second, as every trail is 3+ hours away.
I don't know what merit this post has, but I just felt like typing it.
Hasta.

 

[dennisuello]

Sheetmetal is definately in the way on XJs. First, is to trim fenders to clear bigger tires, then trim the rear quarter panel, then take to doors off, then tube the fenders, etc. I'm on step 2 right now. I still would like to keep the cab intact, with doors, so i can have A/C for long drives, but the rest will have to go.

 

[Beezil]

I don't know what merit this post has, but I just felt like typing it.
Hasta.

thats what i was thinking.

 

[bgcntry72]

Hey...

thats what i was thinking.

A$$...
Hasta.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

I'm going through my semi-annual lusting for "something more" and need some honest advice.

You guys who have done extensive tube work & driveline upgrades using the XJ/MJ platform I need some opinions: (Beez, One Ton, Grant, Mark H, Ashman, Crok etc)

#1: Do you consider the 'packaging' constraints of the XJ to be worth the effort to retain? Was your intent to use what you had out of frugality, or did you see some advantages to sticking with the XJ front clip, engine/tranny?

#2: If/when you do it again, will the next project be XJ/MJ based, or will it be a fully "clean slate" buggy-type thing. Was your project a success or do you consider the results less than what your expectations were? (I realize many of your rigs are a 'work in progress' at this stage, and results haven't been evaluated yet)

I guess what I'm hedging at is I have had serious thoughts of getting rid of most (or all) of my XJ & MJ stuff... and ideas of rolling that coin into some fab tools and putting something together. It won't be a Jeep product, I can guarantee that It wouldn't be built as a competitive RC comp car either, but would likely borrow much tech from that sport... maybe I've been over at the Dark Side a bit too much :dunno:

It's not that I dislike the XJs/MJs, especially for a DD/light-duty wheeler, it's just that somedays I feel like I am chucking good $$$ after bad with the trail rig, and I'd be better suited with something less disposable and lots more beefy.

All honest answers and advice welcome...

I built the Xj cause Its what I had.

I Origionally purchased the XJ before I was really into 4wheelin, I wanted a 4wd, a good size engine but fuel efficient, And I wanted an enclosed back so I could transport my Big guitar Halfsack amp and other band equipment easily.

Eventually I took it out wheelin cause it was 4wd, then I need a lift, then bigger tires.....then 1ton axles, then a full cage, then copped roof...

I would not PICK an XJ to build a buggy from, there are better engine's, better frames, better axles... truly anything that is still jeep I want to upgrade. The upgrades I can easily keep for the next future project, so the Xj body cage is my only bad investment mostly a time investment not money. Ive learned alot from this project, so my time investment is not that bad. The axles and drive train could easily be used in a full tube chassis If I destroy what I have now.

It would be better to just build a ground up buggy, if you had all the needed drivetrain before hand. But that would be serious down time and most likely, a project that big could take so long you could shift intrest half way though an never complete it. I dont have a budget to get all my "ideal" parts ahead of time: engine, tranny, t-case, axles, tires. youd need all your drivetrain in hand to properly design a full buggy, but when building the cherokee or any other fully drive able 4wd, it is free to use any stock componenets, so you have more time to save up and buy the optimal drive train and do it in manageable sections.

An 85 toyota (with the 22RE motor) would be the cheepest vehicle to buggify, good frame, dicent stock axles for 37s-38s (great clearance), reliable motor (but low HP) fairly easy to do a 4.3l swap, Cheep gearing options for stock t-case, narrow, light, small...

Thats why I now own a toyota also. Its currently my daily driver (lifted and on 35s), but with my current intrests it would be a great candidate for a future buggy project.

Also the formula toyota chassis option is cheep, $800 for a full buggy chassie to just weld onto a stock 84-85 toyota frame. My bender and tube cost more then that.

Right now Im having fun building the XJ, and have learned alot as I build and wheel it more. I build in a series of smaller projects over afew years as I learn more about what I really want/need to have fun in our hobbie.

Edit: I wana post a picture Tooo....

 

[Blatant]

Interesting thread. I come from a slightly different perspective, I think, as I've built other rockcrawling rigs before. My last YJ wasn't a tube rig (I don't like buggies in general), but completely build with f/r 60s, full cage, not much sheetmetal, 38.5 SX, etc. Easily (well, sometimes not so easily) did every hardcore trail here in Arizona. I have the tow rig and trailer and all that crap.

I bought a $400 XJ for the express purpose of building a capable (non-buggy) rockcrawler that's safe to drive to and from the trails. I just wanted to do something a little different, still utilizing some of the principals from my other rigs.

Frankly, the whole trailer queen thing got old for me.
Dion

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Easily (well, sometimes not so easily) did every hardcore trail here in Arizona.

Every hard core trail?

 

[Blatant]

Every hard core trail?

Pretty much left sheetmetal or broken parts on every trail you can name. Except for the more recent ones opened since I left the sport (Matrix, Twister, etc.)

By the way, I wanted to touch base with you; seen your posts on POR. Hoping to find someone quasi-local if I run into any weird problems working on a unibody rig. My direct line is [email protected] if you have time to drop a line.
Dion

 

[FarmerMatt]

Woody, you've got to ask yourself what you want out of your rig & what you can & can't live without that's in your rig. A tube buggy would be cool, but way too impracticle for me. There are too many trails around here that start in one place & end at another that would require street time to get back to the tow rig. We use the rig as a spare car & living in near Fresno in the summer requires AC... at least it does for the wife so the top stays along with the doors. I can't loose the rear seat with 2 kids. So I've pretty much have gone as far as I can with this thing given my priorities. I'm happy at this stage though. I can cruise through town or down the hwy with ease & wheel on some of the hardest trails in the nation & hold my own with any other rigs out in JV. To me it's the best of both worlds. Compromise is everything. Consider what you'll give up before you touch the sawzall.

Matt

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Pretty much left sheetmetal or broken parts on every trail you can name. Except for the more recent ones opened since I left the sport (Matrix, Twister, etc.)
By the way, I wanted to touch base with you; seen your posts on POR. Hoping to find someone quasi-local if I run into any weird problems working on a unibody rig. My direct line is [email protected] if you have time to drop a line.
Dion

Your closest local group would be the (Built to Grind Rock Crawlers) group in Phoenix, they hang out on pirate and might have there own club Bulliten board? They ran the matrix when I went up to the AZ on the rocks last month. Thats was fun. (The Tin Benders) were fun to watch too. Check out this thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213238
Alot of local (phoenix) guys showed up for the AZ on the rocks, to watch or wheel.

There are some Phoenix guys on our local www.WheelingArizona.com bulliten board also, but its mostly tucson guys. Were all kinda built, kinda not. Not many if any of us are built to handle MATRIX level stuff yet, Im hopping soon though. We plan to make a Tucson rock crawling group from the built guys on our wheeling arizona board.

Have fun.

 

[Goatman]

Your closest local group would be the (Built to Grind Rock Crawlers) group in Phoenix, they hang out on pirate and might have there own club Bulliten board? They ran the matrix when I went up to the AZ on the rocks last month. Thats was fun. (The Tin Benders) were fun to watch too. Check out this thread: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213238
Alot of local (phoenix) guys showed up for the AZ on the rocks, to watch or wheel.

There are some Phoenix guys on our local www.WheelingArizona.com bulliten board also, but its mostly tucson guys. Were all kinda built, kinda not. Not many if any of us are built to handle MATRIX level stuff yet, Im hopping soon though. We plan to make a Tucson rock crawling group from the built guys on our wheeling arizona board.

Have fun.

Ashman, you in Tuscon? I have a daughter that lives there......I might visit her in a couple of weeks, after BOTW.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Ashman, you in Tuscon? I have a daughter that lives there......I might visit her in a couple of weeks, after BOTW.

Yea.

Whats BOTW?

 

[Goatman]

Yea.

Whats BOTW?

Best of the West is our annual rockcrawling trek where we spend a week running hard trails......in the west. We've done Table Mesa, Apache Junction, Johnson Valley, 21 Road, Montrose, Avalanche Ranch. This year we're doing Stoddard Valley, Jonson Valley, and Parker. Next year....who knows?

We'll be in Parker Fri and Sat, Feb 27-28. I'm thinking of driving to Tucson Sunday to visit my daughter.

 

[Blatant]

Ash: Yeah, I already know/wheel with most of those guys (Scott, Chris, etc.). I mostly wheeled with the ARC (Arizona Rock Crawlers) and the AZX4W (Bill Mish, Blake van de Loo, etc.). Actually, I was hoping to have a contact like you specifically for any tech-related things I might run into that are XJ specific in my buildup. That is, any problems that are beyond what I would have done in building a SWB Jeep.
Dion

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Ash: Yeah, I already know/wheel with most of those guys (Scott, Chris, etc.). I mostly wheeled with the ARC (Arizona Rock Crawlers) and the AZX4W (Bill Mish, Blake van de Loo, etc.). Actually, I was hoping to have a contact like you specifically for any tech-related things I might run into that are XJ specific in my buildup. That is, any problems that are beyond what I would have done in building a SWB Jeep.
Dion

Cool

 

[NCxj]

Woody, you've got to ask yourself what you want out of your rig & what you can & can't live without that's in your rig. A tube buggy would be cool, but way too impracticle for me. There are too many trails around here that start in one place & end at another that would require street time to get back to the tow rig. We use the rig as a spare car & living in near Fresno in the summer requires AC... at least it does for the wife so the top stays along with the doors. I can't loose the rear seat with 2 kids. So I've pretty much have gone as far as I can with this thing given my priorities. I'm happy at this stage though. I can cruise through town or down the hwy with ease & wheel on some of the hardest trails in the nation & hold my own with any other rigs out in JV. To me it's the best of both worlds. Compromise is everything. Consider what you'll give up before you touch the sawzall.

Matt

This was nicely put, this is why most of us probably have XJ's. I would never use an XJ for a buggy, unless I already had most parts that were needed for one. If I ever went toward the buggy idea, I'd probably only go as far the build up Beezil had before this latest tube creation.