Buggy Engine Choices

[Starboard M]

Simple question with complicated results for all of you 'gents who have built buggy/truggies out of Cherokees.


For those of you who have built a buggy and kept the 4.0 and tranny, are you happy you did, or do you wish you had gone to a smaller/lighter/bigger engine?

For those of you who have built a buggy and gone with another engine and tranny combos, are you happy with your choice, looking back do you wish you had gone another direction?



Im in the preliminary design phase (meaning the build is years away), but Im trying to figure out what sort of drivetrain to go with on a XJ/MJ based buggy.

My ideas:
1. 4.0-AW4-231/300
2. 4.3-TH350-Atlas or other Tcases
3. 5.3....?
4. LSx....?
5. 3.8 with super charger .....?



Three, four and five are pipe dreams, that are not realistic, but I figured they needed to be in there. I like the 4.3 and TH350 for simplicity and size of package, but leaves me with no OD (Do I really need it?) and Chevy parts. :wierd:
The first would be the easiest and cheapest, but is it the best?



So, what would you do?
And fook you if you suggest a carbed 305 or 22r engines

 

[MoparManiac]

Really depends on what your budget is.

I kept the 4.0 (for now) and backed it with a Ford NP435/D20 for the gearing (5.38s in the D60s). I had the 4.0 ready to swap in, had already done some small upgrades (new header, 99+ intake, all the gaskets, new sensors, etc.) and just wanted to get it wheeling sooner than later.

I plan on looking into swapping a Mopar 440 Big block into my MJ in the spring. Why? Because my father and uncle can build me one for next to nothing. I know it's a big, heavy engine, but to me it's practically free and I can get a cheap bellhousing to bolt it to the Ford NP435.

To me, it's all about the best bang for the buck. In my case with a 440, we're talking 400 HP with manifold and not headers.

In your case, it might just be stroking the 4.0 that you have and using your existing drivetrain. I have no idea how pricey LS swaps are, I'll let other people chime in on that.

 

[Starboard M]

Money is like always, an issue, but this build wont start for a couple years, so I have time to save....

LSx swaps seem to range between "Friends uncles brothers hairdresser had one out of his 'vette that he gave me" to Turnkey $15k bolt in engine. Most seem to be around the 5-7k range not including the tranny.


Hence my leaning towards a 4.3 and TH350, or the stock 4.0 and AW4. My biggest issue with the stock engine is size and weight, and having to work around them.

And no way I would ever swap in a BB 440, even if it was free!:eyes:

 

[Boostwerks.com]

FWIW, I'd love to build a small tube buggy utilizing a subaru H6 mounted in the back. It's amazing how many "all Iron" buggies are out there, and how many people overlook the advantages of being small and lightweight.

Not really related to what your after I know, but I've been brain storming lately

 

[jmaxj]

seems like the cool thing out here now is to run ecotech motors, small lightweight plenty of power can be had. but sound like crap i think.

 

[John D]

If you're doing the work (I assume you are), the 5.3L/6.0L can be done for much less than 5-7K WITH the tranny. There are several options on the tranny, 4L60e, TH350, and TH400 for autos. Followed by several options on t-cases depending on adapter or no adapter, NP231, NP241, or D300.

 

[Weasel]

There was a 5.3 in craigslist around here for 850 a couple weeks ago. That engine is pretty hard to beat and given you have a few years I would think you would be able to get a decent deal on one.

4.3 seem to work really well too, but are down 2 cylinders obviously. I'd say if your okay with the V6 power and going for light then it would be a good choice.

Based off several T/C buggies that are around the area, not XJ based but same idea. 4.3 buggy is running toy axles and a super light chassis and does well enough in crawling and go fast racing.

 

[REVROK]

A good old 383 Vortech or TPI 5.7 could be built pretty cheap (you could buy a shortblock already built for a good price) and it would have low weight plus plenty of torque... sounds like what you want. Might even be cheaper than stroking your 4.0... though a lot more work. Propane is also easy to do with those. I know, not very sexy.

 

[shortxjdoug]

5.3's are cheep...... i can get complete 6.0l motors with harness and comp for 1400, 5.3's for 5-800. Youll spend that much on an older vortec 5.7 and youll have much more tuneable power. 4.3 is cheap but at stock power just keep the 4.0

however if your not setting up a 1 off chassis and your buggying a cherocar just keep the 4.0, its already wired plumbed and running and can still be built relatively cheap. If you want to run a big motor just build a chassis, its not that much more $$$ wise its just the time to wire and plumb it



That being said im planning on powering my lightweight 2 seater with a lexus 1uz and aw4 (270 hp with a 4.0 fourcam v8) if i could find a cheep 2uz (320 stock hp) id run it but that remains to be seen

 

[MoparManiac]

Money is like always, an issue, but this build wont start for a couple years, so I have time to save....

LSx swaps seem to range between "Friends uncles brothers hairdresser had one out of his 'vette that he gave me" to Turnkey $15k bolt in engine. Most seem to be around the 5-7k range not including the tranny.


Hence my leaning towards a 4.3 and TH350, or the stock 4.0 and AW4. My biggest issue with the stock engine is size and weight, and having to work around them.

And no way I would ever swap in a BB 440, even if it was free!:eyes:

Well if money is less of a concern, shoot for your pipe dream!

Yup I've heard the same prices, but I have 0 experience with anything GM.

How light are you trying to get?

:laugh: Most people tell me that, but like I said I can get a complete stock engine for free. If anything breaks, it's guaranteed free to fix it.

FWIW, I'd love to build a small tube buggy utilizing a subaru H6 mounted in the back. It's amazing how many "all Iron" buggies are out there, and how many people overlook the advantages of being small and lightweight.

Not really related to what your after I know, but I've been brain storming lately

I think most of the "all iron" buggies are just using what's available and cheap per HP, not necessarily what may be the the best bang per lb.

seems like the cool thing out here now is to run ecotech motors, small lightweight plenty of power can be had. but sound like crap i think.

I know a guy who ran one in a Vanagon. That thing moved pretty good for what it was.

however if your not setting up a 1 off chassis and your buggying a cherocar just keep the 4.0, its already wired plumbed and running and can still be built relatively cheap. If you want to run a big motor just build a chassis, its not that much more $$$ wise its just the time to wire and plumb it

I would agree with that. I know a few people runnings 4.3s and I'd rather have a 4.0.

 

[billyjp2]

How about a 2.3 Turbo from a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe?

 

[shortxjdoug]

How about a 2.3 Turbo from a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe?

very cool.... but IMO a lot of work to get into a chassis thats already built for a 4.0

 

[5spd_xj]

:laugh: Most people tell me that, but like I said I can get a complete stock engine for free. If anything breaks, it's guaranteed free to fix it.

I'll be sure to remind you of this statement when everything behind your motor explodes the first time you dump the clutch :roflmao:

 

[MoparManiac]

I'll be sure to remind you of this statement when everything behind your motor explodes the first time you dump the clutch :roflmao:

I'm going to hold you to that :thumbup:

 

[NorCalChris]

My buddy has built a xj based buggy . Still 4.0 powered. He wants more power. He is on 38's. He has been talking to me about building the 4.0, running a turbo, or swapping in a chevy v8. Im not that far yet, but id run a built up 4.0 first.

 

[ROBZ95Xj]

how much of the xj are you planning on keeping?

 

[shortxjdoug]

My buddy has built a xj based buggy . Still 4.0 powered. He wants more power. He is on 38's. He has been talking to me about building the 4.0, running a turbo, or swapping in a chevy v8. Im not that far yet, but id run a built up 4.0 first.

what gears is he running?..... i was extremely happy with a 4.7 stroker, auto and 5.13's running 37's

 

[freerider15]

Matt, you know mainly why I kept the 4.0/AW4 in my build...I already had it, didn't have (more of didn't want to spend) the money of V8 power, and I was kind of already in over my head

I will say though...once I've got my tow rig, trailer, and all of that settled...I can see myself throwing in a V8 a couple years down the road.

My choices (but I am by no means all the edumacated on motors)...would be an LSX, an LQX, or something along the lines of the 5.3.

I would honestly say that unless you find a deal on it or are dead set on it...I would be more inclined to spend the money where it matters more on things that are going to make your rig perform better vs. just go faster/have more power (i.e. coilovers instead of airs, better fuel system, full hydro instead of hydro assist, etc, etc.)

Just my $.02

Gonna get rid of the other rig or what?

 

[Weasel]

powering my lightweight 2 seater with a lexus 1uz and aw4 (270 hp with a 4.0 fourcam v8) if i could find a cheep 2uz (320 stock hp) id run it but that remains to be seen

May want to think about that a bit more. Twisted did a lexus V8 in a lightweight 32-3300lb buggy and it didn't have enough power, owner added a supercharger after tweaking and tuning for awhile and now it has a computer tuned 5.3.

 

[Starboard M]

FWIW, I'd love to build a small tube buggy utilizing a subaru H6 mounted in the back. It's amazing how many "all Iron" buggies are out there, and how many people overlook the advantages of being small and lightweight.

Not really related to what your after I know, but I've been brain storming lately

Every time I see an unusual powertrain, I start questioning how I could make it work.

Or I could just go with your turbo. But I want that on my DD...

If you're doing the work (I assume you are), the 5.3L/6.0L can be done for much less than 5-7K WITH the tranny. There are several options on the tranny, 4L60e, TH350, and TH400 for autos. Followed by several options on t-cases depending on adapter or no adapter, NP231, NP241, or D300.

I would be doing as much work as I could, so my time is free.

I guess I need to start looking at pricing. My going off what I read online, or heard around the campfire.


How well do the TH350s last behind V8s? I heard the TH400s are not as strong, any validity to that? And would I really need OD?

There was a 5.3 in craigslist around here for 850 a couple weeks ago. That engine is pretty hard to beat and given you have a few years I would think you would be able to get a decent deal on one.

4.3 seem to work really well too, but are down 2 cylinders obviously. I'd say if your okay with the V6 power and going for light then it would be a good choice.

Based off several T/C buggies that are around the area, not XJ based but same idea. 4.3 buggy is running toy axles and a super light chassis and does well enough in crawling and go fast racing.

In my mind Im building a "lightweight" buggy that I can take to the 'con and spend a couple days there. And also do the short day trips with no gear. Im not building a one seat comp buggy, or a wanna be KOH racer.

I have been pretty happy with a Renix 4.0, so its not like I need 500+ hp. But who doesnt want that....?

How about a 2.3 Turbo from a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe?

AKA this?
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929232

I love the idea of a small four cylinder, forced induction engined buggy, but I just dont have the knowledge to do that sort of work.

how much of the xj are you planning on keeping?

At this point Im torn what Im going to be doing. These are both pipe dreams, and a long way off, mainly due to my Jeep being 1200 miles away, and I living in an apartment with no shop or garage. :tear:

Current specs are '89 XJ, 4.0, AW4, 231 with 4:1 with 35'' tires.


1. Cheromanche the XJ, D60 front, 14 bolt rear, 40'' MTRs, 4.0, AW4, 231/300 (or Atlas). Current issue Im running into most is the amount of sheet metal and general size, so dovenosed and dovetailed.
Also considering coilovers front and rear. Fully hydro or hydro assist steering, leaning towards full hydro.

2. I just picked up an MJ cab, so turn that into a buggy, skinned with MJ and XJ parts. D60 front, 14 bolt rear, 40'' MTRs. Coilovers front and rear, full hydro.



Both are expensive, and take a lot of effort.