Brakes

[Boostwerks.com]

Wow...not sure how I ended up thinking they were GM calipers when you mentioned "T-Bird" lol. My mistake. dir da dir.

 

[EMSJEEP]

Wow...not sure how I ended up thinking they were GM calipers when you mentioned "T-Bird" lol. My mistake. dir da dir.

I'm pretty sure that is the application SSBC indicated, but I will have to confirm that tomorrow as I can't find the sheet of paper I wrote it down on when I ordered new pads. The guy I was yelling at on the phone today said that it was possibly a 1980's production vehicle application...sooo...maybe I remember wrong. They are old enough to have anti-rattle clips instead of shims, so, they are a rather old design for a 2001. The nice man at SSBC said he was looking for an XJ, I complimented his taste and advised him to keep all SSBC products away from it.:soapbox:

 

[Boostwerks.com]

lol

 

[Talyn]

A lot of new calipers still use anti rattle clips instead of shims though.

 

[EMSJEEP]

A lot of new calipers still use anti rattle clips instead of shims though.

any trick to help the pads move well?

 

[kcjeep6]

Pressure problem to the rear...possibly all around.
-Vanco up front.
-SSBC disks in back.
-New soft lines, no leaks.
-System bled pedal feels hard with prop valve adjusted to about ~60/40.
-Stock prop valve has stem and cap only. (washer on the stem blocks all rear flow and was removed.)
-Working prop valve is on the common hardline to the rear. (SSBC)
-New booster (stock).
-New -and larger- MC (bench bled).

Thinking of completely gutting the stock prop valve and plugging it?

Thoughts?

Before I went to Vanco front brakes & Hydro boost, I had stock caliber in the front and GM in the rear (I don’t recommend the GM calibers) & stock booster. I changed the master cylinder to an E-350 (1 1/8"), I ended up with more peddle throw and needed more peddle pressure. Correct me if I am wrong but if increase the diameter of the MC you reduce the line pressure, you will get more volume. It will require more pressure on the MC piston to get the same line pressure. Go to Hydro Boost and forget about brake issues!

 

[EMSJEEP]

Before I went to Vanco front brakes & Hydro boost, I had stock caliber in the front and GM in the rear (I don’t recommend the GM calibers) & stock booster. I changed the master cylinder to an E-350 (1 1/8"), I ended up with more peddle throw and needed more peddle pressure. Correct me if I am wrong but if increase the diameter of the MC you reduce the line pressure, you will get more volume. It will require more pressure on the MC piston to get the same line pressure. Go to Hydro Boost and forget about brake issues!

If it was still the DD I might be able to justify the $$$...my issue is, that, once upon a time it DID work...so...

 

[EMSJEEP]

So, I went out looking for a new banjo bolt today (10 x1.5) and after visiting 4-5 shops I finally found a set.

SSBC tells me that the calipers -a completely proprietary design with no application specific replacement generally available- are meant to be mounted upside down, which, for the e-brake system is right side up. I am to ignore the Left/Right model number markings and mount with the banjo-bleeder as the high point. To clarify, the caliper has two bleeders, on on the back of the banjo bolt and one below that. The banjo-bleeder is proprietary, they machine in the bleeder screw at their facility. (In other words...the calipers were correctly installed the first time, and flipping them was probably unnecessary.)

Additionally, they were kind enough to tell me that the failed valve was both not their fault and partly mine...
Just because the original valve didn't work and the new valve stem + previously missing part did, doesn't mean that there was a manufacturing/assembly error. They change and adapt designs to address failures...simply, they experiment on customers vehicles. So, they are not responsible for it not working. Additionally, as I didn't immediately identify the allegedly missing part as missing or the valve as defective, and instead only noticed it when I replaced the seized valve stem with a new one, it is my fault because they would have gladly sent me a new valve or troubleshooted the problem.



I went out and ran break in procedures for the brakes. The fronts cleared all the rust, but I cant get them to lock up, the rears did not clear the rust on the rotors but will lock the rear tires in a reverse stop...

 

[Talyn]

I still don't see how the caliper will bleed correctly if the bleeder is off the banjo bolt.

That sounds like a horrible company to deal with

 

[EMSJEEP]

I still don't see how the caliper will bleed correctly if the bleeder is off the banjo bolt.

That sounds like a horrible company to deal with

I have a call in with their CS supervisor and tech manager...at this point, I'm angry and will keep calling until they change their attitudes or embarrass themselves throughly, I'll see what state they are in and maybe record some of the calls for their higherups.

Whatever caliper they used for their "proprietary design" required that they flip the thing for it to work right, so to make up for the inversion they put a bleeder in the banjo bolt which was formerly the lowest point and now sits up top. It seems dumb, but, like I said, the system DID work, if only briefly.

 

[EMSJEEP]

CS supervisor called back...not much to say besides change the pads and check the line pressure and vac pressure.

...and guess what, they guy I talked to yesterday forgot to put in the order for my banjo bolts. They are going to try again and hopefully get them to me tomorrow. Really piss poor customer service.

I put in new pads today and flipped the calipers back to their SSBC suggested positions. We'll see how it works out if I get my bolt tomorrow.

 

[EMSJEEP]

No bolt today. It's official STAY AWAY FROM SSBC.:skull2:

 

[tbburg]

SSBC tells me that the calipers -a completely proprietary design with no application specific replacement generally available- are meant to be mounted upside down, which, for the e-brake system is right side up. I am to ignore the Left/Right model number markings and mount with the banjo-bleeder as the high point. To clarify, the caliper has two bleeders, on on the back of the banjo bolt and one below that. The banjo-bleeder is proprietary, they machine in the bleeder screw at their facility.

I have to call :bs: on this. Somebody is lying to you.

If those calipers are a "proprietary design" then:
- why do they have incorrect left/right markings on them?
- why do they use the banjo bolt bleeder, such a common part that they have to make their own?
- why did they even bother machining for and installing the lower bleeders?

A more likely answer is the basic caliper casting is from some obscure application like an '86 Firebird, and it has a "proprietary" bleeder, mounting adapter, and e-brake cable adapter.(three parts that are not "application specific replacement generally available")

Well, one thing nice about this thread: I was going to get a SSBC adjustable prop. valve. 'Think maybe I'll go with something else.

 

[EMSJEEP]

I have to call :bs: on this. Somebody is lying to you.

If those calipers are a "proprietary design" then:
- why do they have incorrect left/right markings on them?
- why do they use the banjo bolt bleeder, such a common part that they have to make their own?
- why did they even bother machining for and installing the lower bleeders?

A more likely answer is the basic caliper casting is from some obscure application like an '86 Firebird, and it has a "proprietary" bleeder, mounting adapter, and e-brake cable adapter.(three parts that are not "application specific replacement generally available")

Well, one thing nice about this thread: I was going to get a SSBC adjustable prop. valve. 'Think maybe I'll go with something else.

Yeah, I asked the supervisor about this, he said, "Oh, I don't know why he wouldn't give out that information, you should be able to pick up any '88 T-Bird caliper and throw on our banjo bolt, that we manufacture to make it more convenient to bleed."

I got my bolts today, finally. Hopefully I can iron out the rest of the problems now.

 

[Talyn]

I still don't understand how the banjo bolt/bleeder combo actually bleeds the caliper.

 

[EMSJEEP]

I still don't understand how the banjo bolt/bleeder combo actually bleeds the caliper.

Apparently the poorly designed caliper (much like the GM one posted above) requires one to remove the caliper to bleed it as the stock bleeder screw is not at the high point. According to SSBC (and this looks to be more or less correct) the brake line attachment point is just about the high point of the caliper, to facilitate bleeding without caliper removal they manufacture a banjo bolt that has a bleeder screw in the rear of it.

While the brakes weren't exactly working as required, I am fairly confident I have been able to clear the air out of these calipers as I have mostly had a nice firm pedal throughout this disaster. I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

 

[EMSJEEP]

New pads and lubrication helped but I can't get a good bleed on the system, the MC leaked dry overnight. I tried bleeding at the MC fittings but I think it may have to be officially bench bled....maybe I will take it in for a $30 pressure bleed...

I got it good enough to move it out of where I needed to move it from and 2 days later a huge tree fell across the place I had it parked....phew!

 

[EMSJEEP]

I bled the MC from the fittings while on the vehicle. My Pass. side front bleeder was leaking too, so I tightened that. Bled the rest of the system. I saw no air...still a soft pedal.

I also have no idea how to adjust the pushrod...it's just about making contact in the neutral position. Changing it doesn't seem to help though.

 

[EMSJEEP]

Bled it on a hill. Rears only. Air came out. Still not perfect. It won't gravity bleed very well (engine running, cap off, bleeders open). I jacked it ass end up about 10 inches, to the top of my 6 ton stands, no more air. Bled the prop valve...helped a little more, but still crappy.:tears:

 

[Talyn]

Have you unmounted the calipers, flipped them so the caliper bleed valve is at the top, then bleed them?