Army gone soft?

[FELIX]

Um, yeah. I reall can't say much about this. It definitely makes me that much more proud to have been a Marine . . . .

Yep OooRaahh!!! . All this is going to do is get more people killed. You need to have a hard edge & keen sense for detail in combat. it's not for everyone & the way the world is going, it's only going to get worse.

Rob $.02 Semper Fi

 

[ECKSJAY]

Ok now, realistically...

Did anyone happen to catch what kind of MOS cluster this Basic was for? Like mentioned above, the combat MOS' didn't have stress cards or reduction in yelling. When I went to my active duty component I was chatting with the admin and Intel kids...and they were the ones who had it 'easy'. Our unit overall had to remain 'stress free' to stay effective though. Stressed out interpreters and imagery analysts make for poor intelligence reports. Our MP section maintained hardiness due to the sensitive nature of guarded materials, troops, and intelligence. It was expected of us to stay alert and keep everyone/everything safe.

While in Basic/MP School we shared campus with the Chemical Corps, which in itself was 'strange'. We used to hear them SINGING like workers in a field. While waiting for chow they had little, and I chit you not, 'dances' that the platoons would do. We had to use the mess hall at the Chemical school a few times and we stood rock solid while these goofballs did their 'thing'. We had one Drill SGT one time (DS Allison...a Copenhagen-dipping hardnosed gal we lovingly nicknamed 'Woody' because of her 'Aussie'-styled DS hat) trying to talk to us while these idiots were singing some showtune or some shit... She rolled her eyes and said, 'Oh Jesus Christ would you people STFU?!' It was all we could do to keep from losing it. :confused1 We always wondered what that crap was all about...but then we were better than them anyway.

My whole point is that media may portray things that a lot of folks have been sheltered by over time here. There are many jobs that are deemed as 'non combat' positions. The day I see the MP Corps going 'Chair Force' is the day I'll talk shit.

 

[Glenn B]

You had female DI's? When I was in, you only saw them with the women troops.

So, from reading your post... these days you get Boot Camp based on your MOS? and MP boot camp is "hard core"? Or am I missing something?

Ok now, realistically...

Did anyone happen to catch what kind of MOS cluster this Basic was for? Like mentioned above, the combat MOS' didn't have stress cards or reduction in yelling. When I went to my active duty component I was chatting with the admin and Intel kids...and they were the ones who had it 'easy'. Our unit overall had to remain 'stress free' to stay effective though. Stressed out interpreters and imagery analysts make for poor intelligence reports. Our MP section maintained hardiness due to the sensitive nature of guarded materials, troops, and intelligence. It was expected of us to stay alert and keep everyone/everything safe.

While in Basic/MP School we shared campus with the Chemical Corps, which in itself was 'strange'. We used to hear them SINGING like workers in a field. While waiting for chow they had little, and I chit you not, 'dances' that the platoons would do. We had to use the mess hall at the Chemical school a few times and we stood rock solid while these goofballs did their 'thing'. We had one Drill SGT one time (DS Allison...a Copenhagen-dipping hardnosed gal we lovingly nicknamed 'Woody' because of her 'Aussie'-styled DS hat) trying to talk to us while these idiots were singing some showtune or some shit... She rolled her eyes and said, 'Oh Jesus Christ would you people STFU?!' It was all we could do to keep from losing it. :confused1 We always wondered what that crap was all about...but then we were better than them anyway.

My whole point is that media may portray things that a lot of folks have been sheltered by over time here. There are many jobs that are deemed as 'non combat' positions. The day I see the MP Corps going 'Chair Force' is the day I'll talk shit.

 

[5-90]

Ok now, realistically...

Did anyone happen to catch what kind of MOS cluster this Basic was for? Like mentioned above, the combat MOS' didn't have stress cards or reduction in yelling. When I went to my active duty component I was chatting with the admin and Intel kids...and they were the ones who had it 'easy'. Our unit overall had to remain 'stress free' to stay effective though. Stressed out interpreters and imagery analysts make for poor intelligence reports. Our MP section maintained hardiness due to the sensitive nature of guarded materials, troops, and intelligence. It was expected of us to stay alert and keep everyone/everything safe.

While in Basic/MP School we shared campus with the Chemical Corps, which in itself was 'strange'. We used to hear them SINGING like workers in a field. While waiting for chow they had little, and I chit you not, 'dances' that the platoons would do. We had to use the mess hall at the Chemical school a few times and we stood rock solid while these goofballs did their 'thing'. We had one Drill SGT one time (DS Allison...a Copenhagen-dipping hardnosed gal we lovingly nicknamed 'Woody' because of her 'Aussie'-styled DS hat) trying to talk to us while these idiots were singing some showtune or some shit... She rolled her eyes and said, 'Oh Jesus Christ would you people STFU?!' It was all we could do to keep from losing it. :confused1 We always wondered what that crap was all about...but then we were better than them anyway.

My whole point is that media may portray things that a lot of folks have been sheltered by over time here. There are many jobs that are deemed as 'non combat' positions. The day I see the MP Corps going 'Chair Force' is the day I'll talk shit.

"MOS Cluster?" Am I missing something, or is Basic not "one size fits all" anymore? I thought the purpose of an armed force was to break things and kill people - and everyone got the same Basic training (and more than a few were more advanced by choice.) I'd not heard of any Basic programme that was divided by MOS cluster - but perhaps I'm missing something again...

The general idea is to actually wash people out, or make them figure out they could put up with it. Some specialties should be staffed by civilians, y'ask me (like anything that's fully REMF or non-combat/highly technical) and leave the soldiers to do the soldiering. I don't think it's worth upping the retention numbers if we end up passing people who shouldn't make the cut - and I don't care who hears me say it. I'd say it to the Joint Chiefs and the C-in-C himself if I had the opportunity - I'd sooner have a small number of highly motivated and highly trained soldiers than a large number of half-assed soldiers - I'd sooner have a short squad of highly trained/motivated ANYBODY than a battalion of half-assed ANYBODY - the short squad will get more done!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Replace the REMFs with civilians, cut the "tail/teeth" ratio, and leave people in uniform who are willing to go break things and kill people on command. "Everybody works, everybody fights."

5-90

 

[ECKSJAY]

You had female DI's? When I was in, you only saw them with the women troops.

So, from reading your post... these days you get Boot Camp based on your MOS? and MP boot camp is "hard core"? Or am I missing something?

Haha, rib rib... We were coed for our MOS, and most of the women who ARE there chose it because the 'combat support' mission realistically translated into 'combat'. There were more male crybabies who got the shit beat out of them by us (mentally) than there were females.

I wouldn't call MP school 'hardcore', but it certainly compared. I have close friends who were/are Infantry and in talking to them I didn't encounter anything different than they did, save for the female soldiers. We had our dirty limmericks and still had plenty of 'smoking' going on. Gone were the days of wall to wall counseling though. We had a couple who could have used it. One who used to laugh in the Drill SGTs' faces was none other than Javal Davis. Anyway, I digress. I learned a lot and saw a LOT of good soldiers come out of that unit...many of whom were complete zeros when they started. I was confident enough at the end of training to join any of them in the battlefield.

Bottom line though is the point you already brought up: The soldiers that came after you were nothing like when you were in.

 

[ECKSJAY]

"MOS Cluster?" Am I missing something, or is Basic not "one size fits all" anymore? I thought the purpose of an armed force was to break things and kill people - and everyone got the same Basic training (and more than a few were more advanced by choice.) I'd not heard of any Basic programme that was divided by MOS cluster - but perhaps I'm missing something again...

No shit man... When I got to my AD unit I was in awe that I was teaching basic marksmanship to supposed SOLDIERS who had somehow escaped Basic never firing an M16! I must have missed something, too. I guess Paper Shuffling 101 was more important that day. Interesting. I had to actually start them from the very beginning and cram everything I learned from MY training into getting them qualified. Some of these guys were so starved for soldiering that we included them in our SGT's Time training. I encountered a couple soldiers who wanted into the Army so bad that they took admin jobs when they were found to be color blind. THAT for me is upsetting. Here we have dumbasses who hate where they're at and think life is too hard...and there are guys with the full heart and soul to kill what needs killing but they aren't allowed. It truly hurt to see.

The general idea is to actually wash people out, or make them figure out they could put up with it.

Hell yeah. It was fun watching some of the guys FREAKING OUT over some stuff that the cadre would throw at us.

Some specialties should be staffed by civilians, y'ask me (like anything that's fully REMF or non-combat/highly technical) and leave the soldiers to do the soldiering. I don't think it's worth upping the retention numbers if we end up passing people who shouldn't make the cut - and I don't care who hears me say it. I'd say it to the Joint Chiefs and the C-in-C himself if I had the opportunity - I'd sooner have a small number of highly motivated and highly trained soldiers than a large number of half-assed soldiers - I'd sooner have a short squad of highly trained/motivated ANYBODY than a battalion of half-assed ANYBODY - the short squad will get more done!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Replace the REMFs with civilians, cut the "tail/teeth" ratio, and leave people in uniform who are willing to go break things and kill people on command. "Everybody works, everybody fights."

5-90

x2, you said it.

 

[5-90]

No shit man... When I got to my AD unit I was in awe that I was teaching basic marksmanship to supposed SOLDIERS who had somehow escaped Basic never firing an M16! I must have missed something, too. I guess Paper Shuffling 101 was more important that day. Interesting. I had to actually start them from the very beginning and cram everything I learned from MY training into getting them qualified. Some of these guys were so starved for soldiering that we included them in our SGT's Time training. I encountered a couple soldiers who wanted into the Army so bad that they took admin jobs when they were found to be color blind. THAT for me is upsetting. Here we have dumbasses who hate where they're at and think life is too hard...and there are guys with the full heart and soul to kill what needs killing but they aren't allowed. It truly hurt to see.

Hell yeah. It was fun watching some of the guys FREAKING OUT over some stuff that the cadre would throw at us.


x2, you said it.

WTF, over? How do you get through Basic without popping caps? Even in the Air Farce, we had to qualify (I had to do it with the M16 and M92 (which is the worst piece of trash I'd ever handled - gimme a M1911/1991 or Mk23 any day over that chunk of scrap aluminum!) so how do you miss that in the Army?

We are certainly slipping - even leaving aside the factor of Marine S/N 00000001 getting Marine S/N 000000002 agains the wall in the pub and saying "Lemme tell ya about life in the 'old' Corps!"

5-90

 

[ECKSJAY]

WTF, over? How do you get through Basic without popping caps? Even in the Air Farce, we had to qualify (I had to do it with the M16 and M92 (which is the worst piece of trash I'd ever handled - gimme a M1911/1991 or Mk23 any day over that chunk of scrap aluminum!) so how do you miss that in the Army?

We are certainly slipping - even leaving aside the factor of Marine S/N 00000001 getting Marine S/N 000000002 agains the wall in the pub and saying "Lemme tell ya about life in the 'old' Corps!"

5-90

These are paper-pushers I'm talking about. Our BN Commander decided to take the MI unit out to the field and it was the security section telling everyone how to set things up because nobody had ever done it. They rented a RYDER FREAKING TRUCK to haul junk to the field. They didn't want us staying in tents...instead we were set up with barracks. We set up a SCIF in the fawking gravel parking lot at McGregor Range and had to show these turds how to react under fire. I mean, I understand going to the field to train...but it should be PRACTICE and EXPANDING on BASIC training principles. We had soldiers carrying weapons they hadn't even qualified on yet and had somehow been in the Army for more than 2 years. UNACCEPTABLE! I had officers...PILOTS...who hadn't qualified on the M9 but were carrying them on board their aircraft. WTF M8?

 

[ZomBrady]

. . . We set up a SCIF in the fawking gravel parking. . . .

What kind of unit are you with that you are working with/in a SCIF? I was a SigInt operator my first four years, so it always kind of interesting to meet others that have worked in SigInt since it's such a small field.

 

[ECKSJAY]

What kind of unit are you with that you are working with/in a SCIF? I was a SigInt operator my first four years, so it always kind of interesting to meet others that have worked in SigInt since it's such a small field.

Aerial Recon, Low Intensity SIGINT/IMINT

Was with the 204th MI BN (AR) at Ft. Bliss, branched from the 513th MI BDE. Because we had a 'real world' mission and were stationed on the airfield (Biggs AAF), the main post MP unit let us TDY over to them on 30 day rotations. I was able to keep street/stick time as well as guarding the door that wasn't going anywhere.