Another shooting....

[in4aride]

Does everyone forget k-12 is off limits even for ccw.
the guy just exploited an easy target.

 

[hawkeye 1]

Does everyone forget k-12 is off limits even for ccw.
the guy just exploited an easy target.

Just another example of the legislature failing its citizens.


Maybe this will work.

 

[urban yan]

Well here is your heat, that little utopia happened, government took all the guns away, and they had peace and love and joy, that was Nazi Germany in the late 1930’s and that did not go so well.

So why don’t you head out to your local gang banger and say “sir please be so kind as to hand in your guns, thanks so much” when he is finished laughing he will shoot you, and if you are lucky some nice police man with a gun will show up and stop him.

You see the one thing that stops crap like this is a good guy with a gun. A few years back here in SLC we had some s*it head shoot up a shopping center and he was stopped by a shopper with a gun.

So my question is where do you plan to stop? On the same day in China, some happy little commie went to a school and stabbed a bunch of kids, so we better get rid of knifes.

The fact is freedom is not free, there are risks and statistics show that states with more guns have less crime.

The fact of the matter is todays left are pure communist, they want to control lives and it is easier to do that when the population does not have guns.

So toasty warm now?

Did I say that I had a left or a right wing agenda? Not really. I think both sides of this debate are toxic.
It’s also very true that violent people will commit violent acts with or without guns.

My problem boils down to the paranoia I see associated with these tragedies. We have 20+ little bodies left in a school overnight after this tragedy (you can't process a scene like they with any sort of dignity in a quick manner), and you rather revert to Nazi/Commie fuelled comments. Remarks like that pretty much prove my afore mentioned point.

 

[XJEEPER]

Therein lies the problem. Cowards who are committed to perpetuate acts of evil such as this will target an area that is most likely devoid of anyone who possesses the ability to defend themselves.

Evil has always existed since the existence of humans on the Earth. As a society, we have been trained to blame a psychosis, an inanimate object or ________ to find reason for acts such as this. We've been trained to shut our mouths, ignore our surroundings, avoid getting involved, mind our own business.

Political correctness indoctrination prevents folks from forming logical, accurate diagnosis and conclusions to situations around them, as well as affecting how they react to and report their observations.

Evil can thrive in an environment where folks are afraid to speak up, step up and act out. The lack of situational awareness further enables acts such as this to take place.

I've put out fires, helped prevent accidents, stopped acts of violence on innocent people, helped take down bad guys, all because I choose to pay attention to what is going on around me and move to action when something appeared out of place.

 

[urban yan]

Therein lies the problem. Cowards who are committed to perpetuate acts of evil such as this will target an area that is most likely devoid of anyone who possesses the ability to defend themselves.

What about friendly fire or green-on-blue attacks? Point being, you can suffer casualties even when armed. Even the noblest efforts to arm the public can go awry if they're unprepared to use them. Arming everyone is no more the answer than disarming everyone.

 

[bjoehandley]

Perhaps the best solution for a situation like this is the have trained, local police officers, preferably ones who have family in that school or were former students themselves spend time acting as a security officer or at least a deterant to these kinds of phsycos.

 

[Rush Power Systems]

If you want to get to the heart of the problem then think about this. In our history families would turn out to watch the state kill criminals, we had lynching’s, and old west murders, but we did not get violent like this until Darwin.

Understand I am not getting into a debate of God vs. evolve, what I am saying is this, if we are all just a chance then none of this matters, there is no moral reason NOT to kill someone.

Animals kill easy prey animals because they are hungry, this ahole killed easy prey because he felt a need, and everything science has taught his said there is no reason not to.

It is not a matter of IF you believe in God or not, it is that it could be and you could spend your eternity in hell that makes you think about your needs or not.

@urban yan, it has nothing to do with paranoia, I have guns for safety, if someone comes in my house to hurt my family I will save the state trial money.

Having a gun does not make a killer but it is very effective at preventing you from being a victim.

And if you don’t think we are on the road to communism you better open your eyes. Study history or you are doomed to repeat it.

Funny you knew you were going to get heat then you bitch when you get heat, me thinks me smells a troll.

 

[XJEEPER]

What about friendly fire or green-on-blue attacks? Point being, you can suffer casualties even when armed. Even the noblest efforts to arm the public can go awry if they're unprepared to use them. Arming everyone is no more the answer than disarming everyone.

Agreed. No one said hand every teacher a loaded weapon and cross your fingers for a different outcome. You can teach people how to observe, react and defend......just like you can teach them how to lock their doors, hide in a corner and pray that evil passes them by.

I'll take the odds of an armed and educated population of law abiding citizens over what so many US communities have currently in place, the feeble attempt to legislate away evil acts.

 

[XJEEPER]

Perhaps the best solution for a situation like this is the have trained, local police officers, preferably ones who have family in that school or were former students themselves spend time acting as a security officer or at least a deterant to these kinds of phsycos.

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.......

Who pays for the added law enforcement in elementary schools? It would cost the community much less money annually to actually purchase each teacher a sidearm and educate them on how to defend themselves with it, than place 1 law enforcement officer in each school.

My daughters elementary school has about 4 teachers per grade (k-6th) plus supporting Admin staff, so let's say 45 adult teachers and staff.

A bulk purchase of 45 9mm pistols in a small format to CC-$400 x 45 =$18,000.00

UT CCW cert with situational awareness and range training- $85 x 45 = $3,825.00

Initial investment- $21,825.00

Quarterly situational awareness/range training 45 x $50 x 3 qtrs each school year = $6,750.00

Much better investment than hiring 1 full time LEO for each school. Much better armed good guy to bad guy ratio too.

 

[Alienspecimen]

We have 20+ little bodies left in a school overnight after this tragedy (you can't process a scene like they with any sort of dignity in a quick manner), and you rather revert to Nazi/Commie fuelled comments.

Sadly, those my first thoughts too upon reading this thread...

I doubt that we can find better words to end this discussion with...lets end it now, it is going in a wrong direction.

Boris

 

[urban yan]

Funny you knew you were going to get heat then you bitch when you get heat, me thinks me smells a troll.

Yeah, I smell a troll too.... which is odd because you’re all the way in Utah

When seconds count, the police are just
minutes away.......

Who pays for the added law enforcement in elementary schools? It would cost the community much less money annually to actually purchase each teacher a sidearm and educate them on how to defend themselves with it, than place 1 law enforcement officer in each school.

My daughters elementary school has about 4 teachers per grade (k-6th) plus supporting Admin staff, so let's say 45 adult teachers and staff.

A bulk purchase of 45 9mm pistols in a small format to CC-$400 x 45 =$18,000.00

UT CCW cert with situational awareness and range training- $85 x 45 = $3,825.00

Initial investment- $21,825.00

Quarterly situational awareness/range training 45 x $50 x 3 qtrs each school year = $6,750.00

Much better investment than hiring 1 full time LEO for each school. Much better armed good guy to bad guy ratio too.

There's nothing wrong with your logic financially, except you're assuming each of those 45 teachers will want to carry a firearm (telling people what to do – especially if it’s out of their comfort zone - somewhat infringes on their personal liberties). You're also assuming all of those 45 teachers will be competent with a firearm after training. These people went into academics, NOT law enforcement. I know a few teachers, and I honestly wouldn’t want them armed (some are sloppy – leaving stuff around/ some are all thumbs).

But most importantly, please remember the primary target was the gunman’s mother – a teacher at the school. What’s the likeliness a mother would shoot her own son? What’s the likeliness he would disarm her, and gain another weapon?

 

[mako my day]

Well, another shooting tonight and I was actually close to this one. Fashion island here in Newport beach. happened2 mins before we got there. Some shit head started shooting in the air, 5 shots, in the parking lot.
Fuxing evil is everywhere.

 

[Rush Power Systems]

Yeah, I smell a troll too.... which is odd because you’re all the way in Utah



There's nothing wrong with your logic financially, except you're assuming each of those 45 teachers will want to carry a firearm (telling people what to do – especially if it’s out of their comfort zone - somewhat infringes on their personal liberties). You're also assuming all of those 45 teachers will be competent with a firearm after training. These people went into academics, NOT law enforcement. I know a few teachers, and I honestly wouldn’t want them armed (some are sloppy – leaving stuff around/ some are all thumbs).

But most importantly, please remember the primary target was the gunman’s mother – a teacher at the school. What’s the likeliness a mother would shoot her own son? What’s the likeliness he would disarm her, and gain another weapon?

“I know you are but what am I” well played sir, I have been bested, I respectfully withdraw my argument, I am no match for such superior intellect. Please share more comments that you know will cause you to “get heat”.

 

[tbburg]

But most importantly, please remember the primary target was the gunman’s mother – a teacher at the school. What’s the likeliness a mother would shoot her own son? What’s the likeliness he would disarm her, and gain another weapon?

This is beside the point and wrong. First, He shot his mother in their home. Not at the school. If his mother was the primary target, he would have stopped there. Whatever thoughts were running through the wack-a-mole this guy had for a brain, "I'm going to shoot my mom." wasn't the "primary". Second, he used his mothers weapons. Gaining "another one" wasn't in the cards.

I have a couple of hoplophobes friended on Facebook(One's a relitive). Friday morning before I heard about the Connecticut shooting I posted a question aimed at them about firearms freedom. I was going to see if either of them could have a rational debate. Here's what I posted:

When do we reach the point where we can't be trusted with firearms as a society? Not individually, the society in general. There will always be people who CAN be trusted with these instruments. When are there enough people who CAN NOT be trusted with guns that we have to take them away from everybody.

Unfortunately after Connecticut, rational discussion ran out the door. Anybody here have a theory or comment?

 

[Spearfisher XJ]

Well considering that we live in a society full of crazy people, I'd say lets take away everything that can be used to kill others. I mean shit, he got 27 people with a gun, but what if he drove a truck into the school? Or went in there with a machete? Or went in there with a simple steak knife? A simple Bic pen? My point is that Guns don't kill people, trucks don't kill people, Machetes knifes and pens don't kill people, it's PEOPLE KILLING PEOPLE. If someone has enough drive to do some real damage, well they are going to do it. Should start doing background checks for writing utensils? What about trucks? What about common household items? You can't just take away everything, and even if you did people would still be killing people in large mass killings.

How do we prevent it? Well that's the million dollar question. Mental health screenings won't work--- a crazy will just end up getting his weapon from the black market. With this increase in killings being directly proportional to an increase in gun control over the past 25 years, how about we try the other method of Lessening gun control? Issue more CCWs and allow open carry.

All I know is that Obama will be trying to pass some VERY drastic gun laws here in the next few days weeks... Stock up while you can guys...


It makes me sick thinking about this kind of shit happening. Makes you think about those that are close to you.. RIP to those who lost their lives that day.

 

[XJEEPER]

Yeah, I smell a troll too.... which is odd because you’re all the way in Utah



There's nothing wrong with your logic financially, except you're assuming each of those 45 teachers will want to carry a firearm (telling people what to do – especially if it’s out of their comfort zone - somewhat infringes on their personal liberties). You're also assuming all of those 45 teachers will be competent with a firearm after training. These people went into academics, NOT law enforcement. I know a few teachers, and I honestly wouldn’t want them armed (some are sloppy – leaving stuff around/ some are all thumbs).

But most importantly, please remember the primary target was the gunman’s mother – a teacher at the school. What’s the likeliness a mother would shoot her own son? What’s the likeliness he would disarm her, and gain another weapon?

It was a logical exercise. I prefer allowing schools to be CC zones instead of gun-free. This way the bad guy will have no idea who is prepared to defend themselves and those who are carrying are trained and comfortable with using a firearm to protect themselves.

Stop ignoring the facts and making assumptions.... ...is this what you mean by "intellecutal thuggary?

You win.....you're officially 's Troll of the Year.

 

[kastein]

I'm going to catch some heat for what I’m about to say. Personally, I don't think that guns are the problem, but rather American paranoia. Every time there's a mass shooting the left wing scares the right that they’ll lose their guns, the right wing accuses the left of talking about gun regulations too soon after the incident, the NRA parades the constitution, and gun sales go up. There's really little logic to this except paranoia. Of coarse, more people stockpiling guns means more guns are loitering about, more guns get stolen, misused, etc... It's a vicious circle. The only real winner's the gun manufacturers that seem to profit from the extra sales generated by these types of mass shootings.

IMO, the problem is an issue of mental health and yes, societal problems.

Agreed.

guys, it is 5 days early for this. You are not allowed to agree.

Well, another shooting tonight and I was actually close to this one. Fashion island here in Newport beach. happened2 mins before we got there. Some shit head started shooting in the air, 5 shots, in the parking lot.
Fuxing evil is everywhere.

did he hit anyone? Hopefully not.

 

[urban yan]

“I know you are but what am I” well played sir, I have been bested, I respectfully withdraw my argument, I am no match for such superior intellect. Please share more comments that you know will cause you to “get heat”.

Grow up.

You win.....you're officially 's Troll of the Year.

X2

This is beside the point and wrong. First, He shot his mother in their home. Not at the school. If his mother was the primary target, he would have stopped there. Whatever thoughts were running through the wack-a-mole this guy had for a brain, "I'm going to shoot my mom." wasn't the "primary". Second, he used his mothers weapons. Gaining "another one" wasn't in the cards.

Yes, you're right, and I apologize for that comment. The story changed since the last time I heard it. Originally it was reported that his mother was a teacher at the school. Sloppy reporting, but I suppose it's understandable under these circumstances.

IMO, the problem is an issue of mental health and yes, societal problems.

I'm really unsure how you can diagnose such people under the best of circumstances... especially in tough economic times. I heard some wild hypotheses regarding the shooter on the radio today... One professor alluded to the fact this guy was shy and didn't have a facebook account. Seriously?

 

[kastein]

I'm really unsure how you can diagnose such people under the best of circumstances... especially in tough economic times. I heard some wild hypotheses regarding the shooter on the radio today... One professor alluded to the fact this guy was shy and didn't have a facebook account. Seriously?

agreed. There isn't really a way to figure out who is gonna do it without reading minds.

 

[Rush Power Systems]

Against my better judgment I watched some of Sunday morning shows, the four bottom levels of human debris are coward killers, politicians, ambulance chasers and the news media, and if you are in that list and offended, I say good, you should be.

We get scumbags reporters asking people how they feel knowing their kid lived and neighbors did not, but best of all the human debris this morning was Chris Wallace, what an ahole, kept calling handguns “weapons of mass destructions”. Hey Chris Wallasshole you know what a WMD is? Your mouth! Every time people of your ilk give mental defectives the spotlight some other nut job goes “hey that is how I get my 15 minutes”.

If only the poor principal would have had one of CW’s WMD’s things would have had a chance to turn out different.

And now we are going to get our fearless leader call for control of weapons, forget the fact that Brian Terry and others are dead as a result of his administrations fast and furious program that he has not got the guts to be honest with the American people about.

sad times we live in.