And the truth shall set you FREE!

[joe_peters]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36735&s=rcme

Nothing quite like a little truth, is there?

 

[Boatwrench]

but Mom everyone is doing it...

The typical teenager arguement. Do we want to lower ourselves to Mexico's standards?

Please Joe, find a better arguement.

I am NOT pro-illegal immigration. Far from it. Something must be done but I am concerned that innocent naturalized US citizens will be caught up in the ferror an over zealous mob. Is that freedom to them? Are we as freedom loving americans willing to risk it?

 

[kastein]

I tend to agree. While I agree with what Arizona is doing, I don't think this is a good argument in favor of it*.

I object to multiple parts of their laws - those covered by the first and second bullets, and I'm on the fence about the fifth. I don't think the "can provide for their own healthcare" part is really relevant as I don't think the government should have any part of healthcare in the first place. We already have the third and fourth parts covered but some local and state governments choose to avert their eyes and pretend those don't exist - last I checked being in the country illegally is a federal crime and a felony, and local/state police are supposed to arrest for that. What Arizona has done is make being in the country illegally illegal.

The part I'm not so sure about is how to catch em - I'm not really a fan of national ID card plans, "show me your papers" etc but can't really think of a better way to do anything about it. In an ideal world everyone would be truthful about who they are and where they live / came from when required but we clearly cannot rely on that, so some form of ID is, in my mind, a necessary evil.

* That is NOT to say I don't think it is a great argument for the Mexican government, press, demonstrators, et al to STFU about it till their favorites can do better. I somehow doubt they'll oblige, though

 

[joe_peters]

but Mom everyone is doing it...

The typical teenager arguement. Do we want to lower ourselves to Mexico's standards?

Please Joe, find a better arguement.

I am NOT pro-illegal immigration. Far from it. Something must be done but I am concerned that innocent naturalized US citizens will be caught up in the ferror an over zealous mob. Is that freedom to them? Are we as freedom loving americans willing to risk it?

Now, now! Read my comment. No endorsement of Mexico's laws there--statement of fact!

The answer is criminalizing the EMPLOYERS of illegals. Instead of national ID cards, how about state laws requiring "Employment Eligibility" cards? You want a job, the employer asks to see your EE card--no card, and you get hired, the employer has committed a felony.

About one month of no jobs, illegals will head home. We don't have to catch them, transport them, house them, feed them, care for them.

Problem solved.

 

[Boatwrench]

The answer is criminalizing the EMPLOYERS of illegals. Instead of national ID cards, how about state laws requiring "Employment Eligibility" cards? You want a job, the employer asks to see your EE card--no card, and you get hired, the employer has committed a felony.

Problem solved.

Set up a sting. Go to Home Depot, watch the contractors picking up day laborers, raid the work site, deport the illegals, seize the contractors truck, tools and equipment (even the leased rented ones) and charge the contractor with a felony. Seizing his equipment is similiar to seizing the vehicles of Johns in an effort to reduce prostitution.

Boy won't Conrad be upset when one of his hotels is seized.

You like your home, think twice before hiring the landscaper or painter. I mow my own lawn and rake my own leaves, $100 a month to the guy who barely speaks English is not in my blood.

 

[DrMoab]

You will not see any day laborers at Utah Home Depots. Why? Because they kick them off their property.

 

[joe_peters]

Set up a sting. Go to Home Depot, watch the contractors picking up day laborers, raid the work site, deport the illegals, seize the contractors truck, tools and equipment (even the leased rented ones) and charge the contractor with a felony. Seizing his equipment is similiar to seizing the vehicles of Johns in an effort to reduce prostitution.

Boy won't Conrad be upset when one of his hotels is seized.

You like your home, think twice before hiring the landscaper or painter. I mow my own lawn and rake my own leaves, $100 a month to the guy who barely speaks English is not in my blood.

Boatwrench, sometimes you say the nicest things! atriot:

 

[Boatwrench]

Boatwrench, most times you say the nicest things! atriot:

fixed :cheers:

 

[kastein]

Hate to say it, but if I see "Mullah Stinky (BO)" one more time I may vomit. I don't really like trite phrases like that :spin1: they discredit an otherwise well-worded and intelligently written opinion piece.

EDIT: damn, wrong thread. Getting confused with so many illegal immigration related threads going at once.

 

[joe_peters]

Hate to say it, but if I see "Mullah Stinky (BO)" one more time I may vomit. I don't really like trite phrases like that :spin1: they discredit an otherwise well-worded and intelligently written opinion piece.

EDIT: damn, wrong thread. Getting confused with so many illegal immigration related threads going at once.

No Problema, I have been using that one for long enough, time to come up with something new. On some other news forums I used to type out his whole name, with emphasis on the middle name, someone complained about that so I just started using BO, and then someone complained about THAT! Well, after Barack Hussein Obama aka BHO aka BO aka Barry Hussein Soetoro aka BS and his bow and scrape to the a Saudi King and his treatment of Netanyahu, well, I'm just not feeling very kindly to the "Lying King", so I decided to dub him M S (BO) (abbreviated so as not to induce vomiting). :cheers:

 

[Original_MudButt]

What the hell gives mexico the right to criticize us when they have so much abuse going on in thier country?

Oh that's right, they have so much to lose if we secure our borders........


Mexico acknowledges migrant abuse, pledges changes

By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 5:04 p.m.

MEXICO CITY — Amnesty International called the abuse of migrants in Mexico a major human rights crisis Wednesday, and accused some officials of turning a blind eye or even participating in the kidnapping, rape and murder of migrants.

The group's report comes at a sensitive time for Mexico, which is protesting the passage of a law in Arizona that criminalizes undocumented migrants.

The Interior Department acknowledged in a statement that the mainly Central American migrants who pass through Mexico on their way to the United States suffer abuses, but attributed the problem to criminal gangs branching out into kidnapping and extortion of migrants.

Rupert Knox, Amnesty's Mexico researcher, said in the report that the failure by authorities to tackle abuses against migrants has made their trip through Mexico one of the most dangerous in the world.

"Migrants in Mexico are facing a major human rights crisis leaving them with virtually no access to justice, fearing reprisals and deportation if they complain of abuses," Knox said.

Central American migrants are frequently pulled off trains, kidnapped en masse, held at gang hideouts and forced to call relatives in the U.S. to pay off the kidnappers. Such kidnappings affect thousands of migrants each year in Mexico, the report says.

Many are beaten, raped or killed in the process.

One of the main issues, Amnesty says, is that migrants fear they will be deported if they complain to Mexican authorities about abuses.

At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues."

The Interior Department said the government has taken some steps to combat abuses and Mexico's legislature is working to repeal Article 67 "so that no one can deny or restrict foreigners' access to justice and human rights, whatever their migratory status."

The Amnesty report said one female migrant told researchers that Mexican federal police had forced her group off a train and stolen their belongings. Forced to walk, she said, she was subsequently attacked by a gang and raped.

The Interior Department said it shares Amnesty's concern, and called the report "a valuable contribution."

Mexico has long been offended by mistreatment of its own migrants in the United States.

The Arizona law - slated to take effect in late July or early August - makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and allows police to question anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. Mexico has complained that the law would lend itself to racial profiling and discrimination.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/28/mexico-acknowledges-migrant-abuse-pledges-changes/

 

[kastein]

What the hell gives mexico the right to criticize us when they have so much abuse going on in thier country?

because bullshit and hypocrisy are the staples of international diplomacy

 

[Jeff in VA]

At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country before attending to any issues."

this just drips with irony.......

 

[joe_peters]

Irony, as in Iran heading the U.N. Womens' Rights Panel--that kind of irony?

 

[RichP]

Set up a sting. Go to Home Depot, watch the contractors picking up day laborers, raid the work site, deport the illegals, seize the contractors truck, tools and equipment (even the leased rented ones) and charge the contractor with a felony. Seizing his equipment is similiar to seizing the vehicles of Johns in an effort to reduce prostitution.

Boy won't Conrad be upset when one of his hotels is seized.

You like your home, think twice before hiring the landscaper or painter. I mow my own lawn and rake my own leaves, $100 a month to the guy who barely speaks English is not in my blood.

I remember seeing a news show that the home depots in Calif had to build air conditioned waiting rooms for the day laborers and a judge forbid ICE agents from checking out those that were in there for citizenship.

 

[RichP]

I see a lot more of them around here, they hang out in various parking lots and get picked up by trucks that have no company signs on them, you can see the outline where they normally are but magnetics are easy to remove.
What I do it when I see half dozen hop in the back is call the state police and report a safety violation of adults riding in the back of a pickup with no seat belts, that is against the law here and a moving violation meaning ticket and points. $70 ticket, $120 court costs and 3 points.
Guy I know runs a lawn care business and hires high school kids to work it, pays them above minimum wage but he's said he can't compete against those illegals getting $4 an hour.

Cell phones are great.

 

[5-90]

I remember seeing a news show that the home depots in Calif had to build air conditioned waiting rooms for the day laborers and a judge forbid ICE agents from checking out those that were in there for citizenship.

New one on me - but it makes some backward sort of sense (given that we ARE talking about CA...)

I also recall reading that Mayor Newsom et al were going to have an "official" boycott of AZ (by the city of SF) in response to this new law. Tell me something - if you're going to have a City function, why is it necessary to send them to AZ to have it? SF has its own convention centres, hotels, and the like, no? Sending City officials/workers out of town to have some variety of "meeting" or "workshop" just screams of FWA to me...

(Those of you who are prior service should recognise "FWA" without too much trouble...)

 

[Boatwrench]

Being a County of San Francisco employee let me shed some light...

One of Mayor Newsom's per projects is using federal stimulus dollars to fund a program called JobsNow. This program began October 2009. JobsNow is designed to take personnel, train them in a different field of work and return them to the work force. We have over 30 JobsNow personnel working at my facility. The payroll for these people is out-sourced.

The City and County of San Francisco's Controller (money manager) reported on KGO Radio and SFGATE.com that San Francisco pays out $16M annually to contracts in AZ.

Now just by strange alignments of the planets or just plain bad karma, the payroll for the JobsNow workers, one of the Mayor's pet projects was outsourced to a company in AZ for.....(drum roll).....$14m! :yap:



The Homedepot item, not that I have seen. Maybe in the Inland Empire Desert communities, but not in the North Bay counties of Marin, Napa or Sonoma

 

[Mike1331]

Meg Whitman (gubernatorial candidate for CA) came to a Rodeo Kick off Party that I was at, it was held at the powerhouse pub here in Folsom by the chamber of commerce. I had to go and do some networking for my company. She went up on stage and did some campaigning. I went up to her after she got off stage and proceeded to ask her how she felt about cutting AZ off.
She immediately avoided from directly answering my question by saying we need to take care of CA’s problems first. I further heckled her and asked if she felt if it was economically sound for CA to cut off AZ. She could tell that I was for the law that AZ has just passed and tried real hard not to answer how I knew she wanted to answer as I know she is against what their doing in AZ. None the less I don’t trust her as she couldn’t be truthful to my face.
Good for AZ for taking matters into their own hands.

 

[5-90]

Being a County of San Francisco employee let me shed some light...

One of Mayor Newsom's per projects is using federal stimulus dollars to fund a program called JobsNow. This program began October 2009. JobsNow is designed to take personnel, train them in a different field of work and return them to the work force. We have over 30 JobsNow personnel working at my facility. The payroll for these people is out-sourced.

The City and County of San Francisco's Controller (money manager) reported on KGO Radio and SFGATE.com that San Francisco pays out $16M annually to contracts in AZ.

Now just by strange alignments of the planets or just plain bad karma, the payroll for the JobsNow workers, one of the Mayor's pet projects was outsourced to a company in AZ for.....(drum roll).....$14m! :yap:



The Homedepot item, not that I have seen. Maybe in the Inland Empire Desert communities, but not in the North Bay counties of Marin, Napa or Sonoma

I do understand what a "Controller" is (although there may be those who do not,) but what I (now) don't understand is what those contracts in AZ would be for. Is SF not able to fulfill its own functions as needed?

Or is this supposed to be in exchange for LA getting their water from AZ, in a roundabout way?