Z22_Z33 said:
Yes 1200, was a lot, but . . . Maybe I thought putting that in there would be helpful, as opposed to just preaching about how much they cost when vehicles get old, without giving examples.
Except your example is fallacious. It should not cost $1200 to overhaul Jeep brakes, unless Bill Gates' personal mechanic is doing the work, or unless the gov't is paying for it. I had to pay $400 for a $200 brake job once, so I understand you were in a predicament. But you admitted yourself that the figure is inflated b/c you would normally have taken it to a cheaper mechanic:
Z22_Z33 said:
My usual guy who works on my Jeep is backed up for the next 2 weeks. He would have done it for a far cheaper price, and not screwed around with me.
And my point is, it does not normally cost that much to do any work on a Jeep, even when you're paying a shop to do it for you. I got my rear main oil seal replaced (a 5-hour job!) for $300 here in Dallas (the seal itself costs less than $20). I could have done it myself, if I had time (this is while I was still attending classes), but $300 for 5 hours of work is a decent price!
Jeeps are simple machines compared to late model SUV's & late model import sedans. I mentioned you could do the work yourself b/c that's how easy it is to work on Jeeps, not b/c I think you need to learn how. My point is, even a shop mechanic has no business charging you that much money to work on a vehicle that is 5 times easier to work on than any other vehicle. But shops charge a flat labor rate of so many $$ per hour--they charge you the same for 3 hrs of work on an XJ as they would if they spent 3 hrs on a Jaguar or a Porsche. Furthermore, Jeep parts are cheap & widely available; import parts (even for Hondas & 'Yotas) are a little more expensive, & sometimes scarce. Of course, there are plenty of import parts at junkyards, for the DIY mechanic.
I'm much more comfortable working on my Jeep than on my Buick (& the Buick, a 1992 Century, is still less complicated than an import). In fact, one reason I want a second Jeep is b/c I can diagnose & repair one of those better than I can the Buick.
Z22_Z33 said:
For 3950 I could buy a Honda Accord, with 87,000 miles. That is even cheaper then the Jeep you’re looking at and 100,000 miles less.
Best deal I can find on an Accord is one w/95k miles, 1992 model year, for $2700. A _typical_ Accord in the $5000 range within 100 miles of my area would have 150k miles, based on internet searches. If I didn't want 4WD, I might consider that Accord. I'd prefer a Civic or Corolla, however, b/c I've driven them & prefer them over the Accord. Civics seem to be more reliable (& more expensive). Maybe I'm wrong. Doesn't matter though, unless I can sell my 2WD XJ ('96 with 112k miles) after I get the 4WD XJ, in which case I might consider getting an Accord (the Buick we have gets only 19mpg, so I'd rather have an import that gets 25-30mpg).
Z22_Z33 said:
You must really hate imports, you kept going into how they need repairs, but don’t forget that with a Jeep with that many miles it is not any better then an import.
I don't hate imports. For 2WD they're fine, & I'd prefer them over most domestics. I just don't want you to live under the illusion that imports never need repairs. From the research I've done, import cars are more 'reliable' in the sense that their drivetrains run longer than most domestics--but they still require maintenance, & they still break down--it's just that their drivetrain holds together longer, so imports are cheaper in the long run. The Jeep 4.0L engine & the Aisin-Warner 4 automatic tranny (an asian-made tranny) hold together just as long. I can fix most of the Jeep non-drivetrain stuff myself, except I don't have the tools for some of the things. Check out
www.carsurvey.org & just compare the Jeep XJ Cherokees to the imports.
Z22_Z33 said:
The only plus with an import is they are smaller and have far less parts to replace, as opposed to a big 4x4.
Uh, no. They _are_ smaller, but they do not really have fewer parts. Front-wheel drive adds complications that rear-wheel drive doesn't have (e.g. CV joints & output shafts on both ends of the engine, meaning more seals that can go bad, more moving parts, etc.). Moreover, the electronics required to make those little engines so efficient make it hard for the home mechanic to diagnose & repair problems involving electrical components. Granted, CV joints are sometimes used on Jeeps, but they don't have to differentiate the engine's power in quite the way they do in FWD cars, & a lot of jeepers just remove the CV joints. Any work on the driveaxle on a FWD will cost more than popping the shafts out of a RWD or 2WD (as far as I know, maybe I'm wrong). And, those engines are so tightly jammed in there that sometimes it's hard even to change spark plugs. AND I don't have a ramp or lift to put a little car on when I want to change the oil--w/the XJ it's already got high enough ground clearance I can just slide under there with an oil pan & get the job done in 10 minutes.
When you say imports have fewer parts, I assume you're referring to the absence of 4WD on the imports. As you know, I need a 4WD. Still, have you ever looked at the Jeep 4WD? It's very simple (which is why it's so reliable). The most troublesome parts in the 4WD system, I believe, would be the front driveshaft u-joints, but u-joints are cheap parts, they just seem to fail a lot--I just don't know whether I have the tools to replace them. I've worked on differentials, they're just a bunch of gears, & the transfer cases are either gear- or chain-driven, not like an auto transmission (late-model & import 4WD's are more complicated [even the Grand Cherokees Quadra-Trac system is more complicated than the XJ systems], such that their t-cases are like little auto trannies).
I can get a '91 XJ 4x4 for $2500 w/116k miles. That's cheaper than your Accord deal. As I mentioned in three of my posts above, I'll probably buy the '91 instead of the '98 I originally posted about. The '91 is in much better condition than the '98.
Z22_Z33 said:
Well I am sorry, I was not aware that being a Phd student was so easy. It must have been quite the chore to get to that point. (and no I am not being sarcastic). What are you getting a Phd in if you don’t mind me asking?
It's 'easy' in the sense I'm finished taking classes. That doesn't mean I don't have work to do. Now I have to work on my dissertation, which is a book-length study I have to write, that will define my career (whether I like it or not), including my marketability. Colleges will not offer me a job unless they have an opening specific to my field, & they will judge me by my dissertation (in part). I have to read all the major studies previously written on the subject, plus most of the minor studies (which is why I say I just go to the libraries & have books delivered; I just have to read & analyze & take notes on everything that could have any impact on my own study). I am also required to read foreign-language literature that has any bearing on my dissertation. I read German, Spanish, Italian & Latin literature (I can also speak Spanish & Italian pretty well, but my focus is on reading). I am expected to write short essays for publication, deliver lectures, & sometimes attend conferences. I don't have to travel much, anymore. The only 'finals' I have left are: publishing my book & giving an oral defense of my dissertation before a board of professors from my university.
In the meantime, I work part-time (22 hrs/week) for the Dept. of Homeland Security, Trial Litigation for Immigration & Customs Enforcement--mostly I assist attorneys like a clerk would, & I'm also considered a sort of secretary, though I don't answer phones.
My Ph.D. will be in English Literature. The details & requirements of my degree are here (I don't like the way the website is written--it sounds too pretentious--but the basic info is there):
http://www.udallas.edu/braniff/pprogram.cfm
Right now, I'm as happy as I've been in a long time b/c I DON'T have classes to go to. I can (kind of) 'afford' to spend time & money on a Jeep. So, whether it's a toy or a workhorse, don't worry about whether I'll make it to class on time.
Z22_Z33 said:
I was giving you advice about the truck.
Sort of. You said you would distrust the general drivetrain/4WD components. I already looked at that stuff, & even reported on it in my initial post.
I accept your point, but I'm actually not too worried about that stuff, except the engine. The underbody was clean, the diffs weren't leaking, the 4WD worked. Like I said above, the 4WD is simple. The tranny could cost as much as $1000 to rebuild, but I could get a whole, used tranny from a junkyard or Jeep-restoration dealership (
www.collinsbrosjeep.com) for $500-$600 & have it installed for $200 or less, or install it myself. An engine rebuild would cost more. In fact, if I do a rebuild, I'll be stroking it out to 4.7L, & that will cost upwards of $2000. If the '98 were being sold for $2000, I'd buy it in a heartbeat b/c I'd still have $3000 & more left to make it into a stroker (but I wouldn't do it unless the engine failed). The stuff that was really bad on that '98 was the electronics (pwr locks were not all working), & one door won't close well & one door is missing a part. That's where you really see the effect of 186k miles.
I was looking for advice specific to 1998 XJ's. You know, stuff I wouldn't already know. For example, RichP pointed out that '98 XJ's are sensitive to being low on gas, esp. when making a sharp turn, & that's probably what caused it to hesitate when I took it out for a test drive--the dealer keeps the level of gas low to save money & to prevent people f/stealing his Jeeps, I guess. I think RichP is right, & that the hesitation was not a serious engine problem--then again I can't be sure, esp. w/that many miles on it.
Z22_Z33 said:
am not sure how I was giving you advice on moral/spiritual wisdom.
I was indulging in hyperbole, or exaggeration, using rhetoric to make a point. I'm trying to tell you it's impolite for you to come here & tell me I have no business wanting a 4WD when you don't even know what I want it for. I've noticed that many people on jeep forums are like that--they automatically think that everyone that comes here asking about buying an XJ doesn't know that Jeeps are gas guzzlers, & have eccentricities like bad oil pressure sensors & bad TPS's, etc., & just might not be the vehicle for them. I told everyone I already have a 2WD. I had to put a lot of money & labor into it at first, but it's been so reliable that I'd rather pay a lot for gas (versus an import) than pay a lot for parts & labor (as I would with an import) that I can do myself on the Jeep, esp. since I learned so much w/the first Jeep. Plus a Jeep is fun.
Z22_Z33 said:
but since you are basically free to do whatever with school that no longer applies. It more likely deals with someone in a four year institution, who will need to worry about those sorts of things.
Believe it or not, I appreciate what you're saying. I took college-level classes for 8 years. As a perpetual student, I've certainly been there, done that, but I've really only missed class one time (in 8 years) due to vehicular problems, & it was my own fault. It's a funny story. I started taking parts off the XJ one day, then found I didn't have the right tools to install the new parts (I actually don't remember what the parts were, now, something about not having the right socket, or buying the wrong tranny oil after draining the tranny fluid). Anyway, I tried to do some maintenance before class & stranded myself at home. Had to wait for my wife to come home so I could take her car to the parts store.
But Ph.D. students generally are ready to move out on their own in terms of how & what they study. They no longer attend classes in order to jump thru hoops & prove that they can analyze texts. They've already done that for 4-8 years of college & masters-level classes before they begin a Ph.D. program.
Z22_Z33 said:
Well, since you are asking us about the truck and what its worth. I’d say it’s a bad buy for that price. Actually it’s a bad buy with that many miles period, unless you know the previous owner and how well they either took care or didn’t of the Jeep.
Gee maybe next time I will just say this, rather then trying to be a little more helpful.
I'd rather you say, "I have a '98, it is/is not reliable, has this much mileage & here's why...." and "since my '98 is still running strong at 220k miles, there's at least a chance that the '98 you're looking at, if it's been well-cared for, may continue to run for another 40k miles" I'm young & stupid but I still have enough experience to consider questions like whether the previous owner took good care of the Jeep or not. As it happens, I suspect most of the damage/defects occurred on the storage lot at Carmax (Carmax auctions cars off to dealers, & that's how this dealer got the '98). Sometimes dealers will cannibalize parts off one Jeep in order to repair & sell another. I watched this guy take the brake master cylinder out of a beat-up XJ & put it in a newer one, once.
If you've read this far--I will say this: I apologize for overreacting. Please understand that I have experience with Jeeps & have chosen them above imports for a host of reasons, & I don't need to go into all those reasons here. I have specific needs & desires, & a limited budget. I'd like to get a 4WD XJ for under $3000, so that I have reserve funds of $2000 in case something goes wrong (i.e., the total I can/want to spend is $5000). I know that this kind of Jeep is out there (unfortunately, they're hard to find in N Texas). I COULD buy the '98, but if I did, & something went horribly wrong, then I'd suddenly have a giant $5000 paperweight. On the other hand, if the '98 would last at least another 40,000 miles, by then I'd have enough money to repair it/rebuild the engine if something major went wrong. Once I have a 'reliable' 4WD, I'll sell my wife's car & probably my 2WD so I can buy her a decent car--probably an import, if that tells you anything. I could get a nice import by selling her Buick & my 2WD XJ... so don't worry about all that, just tell me what I need to know about '98 XJ's--how far will they run, what usually goes wrong with them?
OK?
