- Location
- Roanoke VA
I've owned a couple of the Twin Traction Beam Fords, trust me you will be disappointed off-road with a TTB Ford. Its hard to beat the stock set-up on a XJ and with a few mods its amazing what it will do.
91 XJ or 85 Bronco?
- Thread starter joschmo86
- Start date
Blaine B.
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northwest Indiana
Buy both? You said they were only 500 bucks each?
joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
Blaine B. said:
Haahaa, I wish i could. I only have room for one project vehicle. I went by my uncle's place today and I just know the Jeep is the better of the two, despite its a 91 and will need to be tested on emissions(crap). it will need a major clean-up, tune-up and a few oil leaks fixed but it starts, runs, and drives fine. I'll post before and after pics and I'll have to decide what to do with the paint job being dead.
joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
So heres the deal. My cousin Dan was really interested in the XJ(little did I know), so he snatched it up. Meanwhile, i am busy working fulltime and being a fulltime college student. Ohh well.
Anyways, I'm going Tuesday to pick up the Bronco. I told Dan to NOT be surprised if I dont help him one bit on the Jeep. Ohh, who am i kidding, I love to wrench. He is about elbow deep in replacing the worn 4.0, ya'll will know when he finally get an account here and makes a few posts.
He is debating on converting to a 5 speed, but I told him "If it aint broke, Dont fix it". Anyways. autos are easier for wheelin in my experience.
Heres the funny part. He has the Jeep and wants to make it a bogger. I have the bronco and am already planning a cage and SAS.
And, I talked my way down to $300...not too shabby for a running AND driving 4x4.
Anyways, I'm going Tuesday to pick up the Bronco. I told Dan to NOT be surprised if I dont help him one bit on the Jeep. Ohh, who am i kidding, I love to wrench. He is about elbow deep in replacing the worn 4.0, ya'll will know when he finally get an account here and makes a few posts.
He is debating on converting to a 5 speed, but I told him "If it aint broke, Dont fix it". Anyways. autos are easier for wheelin in my experience.
Heres the funny part. He has the Jeep and wants to make it a bogger. I have the bronco and am already planning a cage and SAS.
And, I talked my way down to $300...not too shabby for a running AND driving 4x4.
- Location
- Torrance, CA
While the TTB axle for the Bronco isn't as bad as the IFS your Isuzu had I still say go with the Cherokee. I would also suggest wheeling it for awhile stock, this will not only let you really build up some respect for the vechile (they are very capable in stock form) but it will also proove to be incredibly valuable wheeling experience (you'll learn to be a pro at picking lines in short order) and will allow you time to build up a good mass of parts.
The 4.0 engine is a bulletproof powerplant, 300,000 miles on a non-abused and regularly maintained engine is normal for these engines. You will also find that the Cherokee is faster than you expect. The 4.0 really gets these 3,500 pound bricks moving.
The transmission, the four speed (fourth is overdrive) automatic Asin-Warner AW4 is also a bulletproof transmission and will keep up with the engine. The one thing I would do to it as soon as possible would be to add an auxiliary transmission oil cooler, especially if you ever intend to tow anything. This transmission was also used in Toyota vehicles.
The transfer case is either an NP231 or NP242 (the 231 is a standard transfer case, the 242 has a differential in it so can be run in 4x4 all the time, worry not though because it also has a locked feature for true 4x4), these are respectable transfer cases but are chain drive and when run out of oil, even briefly, will melt down; although a lot of times that damage is fairly easily corrected if caught quick enough. One word of caution is to make sure to get a transfer case skid, even the OEM one (not all Cherokees were equipped with skid plates) will get the job done. The reason I caution you about that is that the casing of the transfer case is aluminum.
The front axle in the 91 is a non-disconnect high pinion Dana 30 with 3.55:1 gearing, whit your plans of going with 33" tires this axle will serve you well. I would recommend you to use a selectable locker in the front and either 4.56:1 or, preferably 4.88:1 (the deepest available in the HP30) gearing. One thing to keep in mind is that modern Jeeps do not use lockout hubs, we have unit bearings that are non-serviceable (technically you can with some time and a large press), this isn't a bad thing as it saves weight and complication. Plus you'll never have to get out in order to put it in four wheel drive!
The rear axle will be one of two which I will cover separately in the next two paragraphs.
You may have a Dana 35 rear axle. This axle really isn't all that good and I would recommend replacing it as soon as you can. I would not lock a Dana 35, both because it would be throwing money away and because it would put more stress on an already marginal axle. You would have the C-Clip version of this axle (the axle shafts are retained with C-Clips like a Ford 8.8).
The other option is the 27 spline Chrysler 8.25" axle, so named because the ring gear is 8.25" in diameter. While the 27 spline variant of this axle isn't all that great the 29 spline version is pretty stout. The 29 spline axle was installed in Cherokees from mid-1996 (If I recall, I may be wrong on this year) through 2001, again not all Cherokees were equipped with 8.25's. One thing about the 8.25 is that the lowest gearing available for it is 4.56:1. Long term I would either replace this axle entirely or convert it to 29 spline. This is also a C-Clip axle.
As for lifts there are a lot of options out there. As was mentioned earlier there are no body lifts for a Cherokee as it's a unibody vehicle, while a lot of people trash talk the unibody it's actually a good thing, that's the reason that the Cherokee is so light and stout. You'll be working with a four link front and leaf spring rear here, it's easy to work on. For 33's I would not lift the vehicle past 4.5" and would make up the difference in aggressive fender trimming.
Now about the axles. Personally (again I am talking about your stated goal of 33's) I would keep the Dana 30 in the front although I would seriously consider upgrading to alloy axle shafts as soon as budget permitted, I would gear it at 4.88:1. For the rear I would obtain an OEM XJ Dana 44 axle and gear that to 4.88:1 and lock it up, these axles were available under 1987 XJ's. There is rumor of other years being so equipped but I have never seen it personally.
The first thing I would do upon getting the XJ (aside from the usual new vehicle maintenance marathon) would be to install armor, particularly good rock rails. Proper rock rails for a Cherokee attach to the pinch seam underneath the rockers as well as the "frame rails." I would also get at least a transfer case skid and fuel tank skid, again I would see about finding these in yards. Personally I don't see the front skid doing a whole lot, the only reason I have one on my Chief is because it was already in the garage.
Aside from that have fun in the thing!
Sequoia
The 4.0 engine is a bulletproof powerplant, 300,000 miles on a non-abused and regularly maintained engine is normal for these engines. You will also find that the Cherokee is faster than you expect. The 4.0 really gets these 3,500 pound bricks moving.
The transmission, the four speed (fourth is overdrive) automatic Asin-Warner AW4 is also a bulletproof transmission and will keep up with the engine. The one thing I would do to it as soon as possible would be to add an auxiliary transmission oil cooler, especially if you ever intend to tow anything. This transmission was also used in Toyota vehicles.
The transfer case is either an NP231 or NP242 (the 231 is a standard transfer case, the 242 has a differential in it so can be run in 4x4 all the time, worry not though because it also has a locked feature for true 4x4), these are respectable transfer cases but are chain drive and when run out of oil, even briefly, will melt down; although a lot of times that damage is fairly easily corrected if caught quick enough. One word of caution is to make sure to get a transfer case skid, even the OEM one (not all Cherokees were equipped with skid plates) will get the job done. The reason I caution you about that is that the casing of the transfer case is aluminum.
The front axle in the 91 is a non-disconnect high pinion Dana 30 with 3.55:1 gearing, whit your plans of going with 33" tires this axle will serve you well. I would recommend you to use a selectable locker in the front and either 4.56:1 or, preferably 4.88:1 (the deepest available in the HP30) gearing. One thing to keep in mind is that modern Jeeps do not use lockout hubs, we have unit bearings that are non-serviceable (technically you can with some time and a large press), this isn't a bad thing as it saves weight and complication. Plus you'll never have to get out in order to put it in four wheel drive!
The rear axle will be one of two which I will cover separately in the next two paragraphs.
You may have a Dana 35 rear axle. This axle really isn't all that good and I would recommend replacing it as soon as you can. I would not lock a Dana 35, both because it would be throwing money away and because it would put more stress on an already marginal axle. You would have the C-Clip version of this axle (the axle shafts are retained with C-Clips like a Ford 8.8).
The other option is the 27 spline Chrysler 8.25" axle, so named because the ring gear is 8.25" in diameter. While the 27 spline variant of this axle isn't all that great the 29 spline version is pretty stout. The 29 spline axle was installed in Cherokees from mid-1996 (If I recall, I may be wrong on this year) through 2001, again not all Cherokees were equipped with 8.25's. One thing about the 8.25 is that the lowest gearing available for it is 4.56:1. Long term I would either replace this axle entirely or convert it to 29 spline. This is also a C-Clip axle.
As for lifts there are a lot of options out there. As was mentioned earlier there are no body lifts for a Cherokee as it's a unibody vehicle, while a lot of people trash talk the unibody it's actually a good thing, that's the reason that the Cherokee is so light and stout. You'll be working with a four link front and leaf spring rear here, it's easy to work on. For 33's I would not lift the vehicle past 4.5" and would make up the difference in aggressive fender trimming.
Now about the axles. Personally (again I am talking about your stated goal of 33's) I would keep the Dana 30 in the front although I would seriously consider upgrading to alloy axle shafts as soon as budget permitted, I would gear it at 4.88:1. For the rear I would obtain an OEM XJ Dana 44 axle and gear that to 4.88:1 and lock it up, these axles were available under 1987 XJ's. There is rumor of other years being so equipped but I have never seen it personally.
The first thing I would do upon getting the XJ (aside from the usual new vehicle maintenance marathon) would be to install armor, particularly good rock rails. Proper rock rails for a Cherokee attach to the pinch seam underneath the rockers as well as the "frame rails." I would also get at least a transfer case skid and fuel tank skid, again I would see about finding these in yards. Personally I don't see the front skid doing a whole lot, the only reason I have one on my Chief is because it was already in the garage.
Aside from that have fun in the thing!
Sequoia
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
Tell your cousin to swap vehicles with you...The Bronco would make a better bogger, he can bigger tires on it right out the door and that's half the work is getting big tires to float with in the mud. The XJ will make the better trail rig. Tell him he's a dirtbag and the only way to win back your respect is to switch vehicles...
Seriously tho sucks for you not to get the XJ. I'm running mine with stock suspension with longer shackles and spacers to get me a mild lift to fit 30's with room for flex and it went places I had been before in my 92 Trooper and my 94 Tracker, but it went ALOT easier, and made it to places they couldn't. As you probably know Troopers suck in wash sand and my XJ loves it (as long as you can keep the engine cool). I took off the sway bars and welded the rear diff (actually my bro in law did that) and it goes everywhere. I love it. Easily the best 4x4 I've owned. 94 Tracker (also went everywhere, you just had to beat the piss out of it to get it there), 92 Trooper did good on rocks and trails, sucked in sand and broke on pavement (all accessories fell off front of engine, then tranny exploded 3 months later), 90 Samurai (don't even get me started...the least of its worries was a massive oil leak - a quart every week and a half) and now my XJ.
Seriously tho sucks for you not to get the XJ. I'm running mine with stock suspension with longer shackles and spacers to get me a mild lift to fit 30's with room for flex and it went places I had been before in my 92 Trooper and my 94 Tracker, but it went ALOT easier, and made it to places they couldn't. As you probably know Troopers suck in wash sand and my XJ loves it (as long as you can keep the engine cool). I took off the sway bars and welded the rear diff (actually my bro in law did that) and it goes everywhere. I love it. Easily the best 4x4 I've owned. 94 Tracker (also went everywhere, you just had to beat the piss out of it to get it there), 92 Trooper did good on rocks and trails, sucked in sand and broke on pavement (all accessories fell off front of engine, then tranny exploded 3 months later), 90 Samurai (don't even get me started...the least of its worries was a massive oil leak - a quart every week and a half) and now my XJ.joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
Sweet deal. I talke dwith my cousin and now He's wanting the brinco since it has a 5.8L(gas guzzler), can clear larger tires, and can have a bodylift installed.
I'll have the Cherokee in my driveway in a matter fo days, I have to fix a front seal(right above the front of the oil pan) first.
From what i usnderstand, there are no front manual hubs available.
Can I fit 15x7" rims with 31" tires w/o lift? The bolt pattern is 5x5.5", stock wheels from my 85 D150 Ram.
I got the tires for free so I wanted to take advantage of it.
I'll have the Cherokee in my driveway in a matter fo days, I have to fix a front seal(right above the front of the oil pan) first.
From what i usnderstand, there are no front manual hubs available.
Can I fit 15x7" rims with 31" tires w/o lift? The bolt pattern is 5x5.5", stock wheels from my 85 D150 Ram.
I got the tires for free so I wanted to take advantage of it.
- Location
- Torrance, CA
You can fit 31's with no lift but will have rubbing if you take it out. You can agressively trim fenders and have little problems with 31's.
There are manual hubs out there but it's an expensive kit, somewhere like $400 for the standard and $600 for premium (30 spline outer) if I recall. The standard retains the stock bolt pattern but the premium bumps you up to 5 x 5.5"
As I said above the bolt pattern is not 5 x 5.5", it is 5 x 4.5" (Like all TJ's and YJ's). The wheels you have on the Jeep currently are most likely 15 x 7 with 5.25" backspacing. With that backspacing you will have some control arm rubbage on full lock turns, nothing to worry about too much, I had it for years.
Sequoia
There are manual hubs out there but it's an expensive kit, somewhere like $400 for the standard and $600 for premium (30 spline outer) if I recall. The standard retains the stock bolt pattern but the premium bumps you up to 5 x 5.5"
As I said above the bolt pattern is not 5 x 5.5", it is 5 x 4.5" (Like all TJ's and YJ's). The wheels you have on the Jeep currently are most likely 15 x 7 with 5.25" backspacing. With that backspacing you will have some control arm rubbage on full lock turns, nothing to worry about too much, I had it for years.
Sequoia
joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
Thanks for the info. i'll just have to wait to get a 4.5" lift on it and some black steelies. Might go for some new tires by then. I'm going to go to my uncles house and check out the Cherokee cause I am bored to hell. 
Blaine B.
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northwest Indiana
I forget whose XJ this is.....but here's 31's and no lift.
joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
Well...I got the JEEP!!!
Not a big thing to you all, but its a first REAL 4x4 for me.
Now, let me know what you can tell me from the pics, as in which rear axle I have, front, ect?
Plans in order of doing:
Fix oil leak(ouch!)
Trim fenders, keeping flares.
3" Budget Lift
31" A/Ts on 15" Steelies 4.25" backspacing.
Let me know of anything I need to watch out for, or thats known for going out on these Cherokees.
Trying to keep this a weekend warrior, and possibly a daily driver since my F150 sucks gas and is a manual.
Not a big thing to you all, but its a first REAL 4x4 for me.
Now, let me know what you can tell me from the pics, as in which rear axle I have, front, ect?
Plans in order of doing:
Fix oil leak(ouch!)
Trim fenders, keeping flares.
3" Budget Lift
31" A/Ts on 15" Steelies 4.25" backspacing.
Let me know of anything I need to watch out for, or thats known for going out on these Cherokees.
Trying to keep this a weekend warrior, and possibly a daily driver since my F150 sucks gas and is a manual.
jforse
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Duluth, Minnesota
That oil leak is a mess! Almost looks like coolant. I got my 3" lift from www.rustysoffroad.com for $250. Has worked well for me for almost two years. I love my BFG A/Ts. They are great in the snow/ice/rocks/and are ok in the mud. Put new plugs wires cap and rotor in. Thats a pretty cheap tune up. It will make a big differance. I would also suggest to get the tranny flushed and a new filter instaled. Then put fresh fluid in the axles and t-case. Happy Wheelin!
Blaine B.
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northwest Indiana
Wow, it has a leaky mess going on.
Front axle is a D30......You didn't get a pic of the rear.
Front axle is a D30......You didn't get a pic of the rear.
joschmo86
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houston, Tx
3rd to last pic is of the rear axle, sorry, I tried to get the numbers/letters more than the actual housing.Blaine B. said:
Blaine B.
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Northwest Indiana
I can't tell from the picture - can you get a picture of the rear axle similar in fashion to the front axle's pic?
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
It all depends on the Jeep. Mine fit 30s stock, but they were constantly rubbing over every bump, on pavement. Some people can run 30s stock and wheel them with little rubbing. What I did with mine is spend $100 on a budget boost. Coil spacers up front and longer shackles in the rear. Or if you have junk yard nearby, the guy out here quoted me $10/each if I pulled the front springs from an F150. They'll fit and provide a few inches of lift for failry cheap.
EDIT: The rear looks like a D35. The little diamond emblem I believe is Dana's symbol. Its not exactly the best axle, but if you're careful and don't much bigger than 31s or so, it should last you. Some people wheel with the 35 and it breaks constantly, other s say they have no problems. Don't get too agressive with gas off-road and it should be fine. Dana 30 bearings are sealed so when its time to replace them, you can't just repack them and they can be expensive to replace. Mine were $168 per hub I believe. The 4.0 is awesome. You can trim the front fenders pretty heavily, the rears not so much. But you can easily keep you stock flares with the trimming. You'll just need to trim the flares too. I cut the lip off of mine and then cut them where they thinned a little the follow the body line for the front. I haven't gotten around to trimming the rear yet. The guys I've seen and liked usually cut the rear flares in halflike the Bushwhackers and trim high enough to mount the flares with half on the door. Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of XJs!
EDIT: The rear looks like a D35. The little diamond emblem I believe is Dana's symbol. Its not exactly the best axle, but if you're careful and don't much bigger than 31s or so, it should last you. Some people wheel with the 35 and it breaks constantly, other s say they have no problems. Don't get too agressive with gas off-road and it should be fine. Dana 30 bearings are sealed so when its time to replace them, you can't just repack them and they can be expensive to replace. Mine were $168 per hub I believe. The 4.0 is awesome. You can trim the front fenders pretty heavily, the rears not so much. But you can easily keep you stock flares with the trimming. You'll just need to trim the flares too. I cut the lip off of mine and then cut them where they thinned a little the follow the body line for the front. I haven't gotten around to trimming the rear yet. The guys I've seen and liked usually cut the rear flares in halflike the Bushwhackers and trim high enough to mount the flares with half on the door. Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of XJs!
Last edited:
zachxj01
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rockville CT
exactly what i was thinking after reading his part of the thread lolDOOD said:
