3.8 or 4.0 Mopar V6 swap ?

[DieselSJ]

What diesel did you swap in? The requirement is that the engine you swapped in had to be available new in CA. Its my understanding the Liberty CRD was never offered in a new car in CA, which would make it not legal for the swap.

Last year was the first year they did emissions testing on diesel here, anything 1998 or newer. The test is a quick visual for illegal mod's (most mod's are legal, as long as you have the CARB sticker) and visual for excessive smoke/particulate. I think it took them about 90 seconds to test my 03 F250 when I purchased it last month.

Is a 6.5L Detroit. Ref didn't even ask. Could have been a 3208 and he would not have cared.

 

[bjoehandley]

Sometimes it is not about cost, but all about doing something different.

There are folks here with literally thousands spent on just their suspensions. They didn't do that to save money, they did it for the challenge of improving the family station wagon.

I'd do it for that reason along, screw somebody who thinks it's a waste of my money.

I'm curious where you think you'll get 25% more gas mileage. .. put one of those 3.8 or 4.0 v6's into a shoebox shaped car and see what you get out of it.

The JK is a good example. My Dad's JK 3.8l gets 11 mpg. My XJ on 37's with a stroker gets 16.

And my parent's stock 4400lbs Town and Country gets 18mpg around town where my stock XJ gets 14-16mpg while on the highway it gets 23-26mph at 65+mph with 4 "well fed" passengers and their luggage where my XJ got 17-21mpg under the same conditions:wave1:



Of course, that T&C won't turn worth a damn and is the worst handing vehicle we've owned since Dad had that damned Pontiac 6000 18 years ago:banghead:

I think depending on the engine's specs, it could be cool. Less weight is always a benefit. Even when you're adding 300 lbs of armor, if you can save 300 lbs of engine, you're breaking even. Heavy weight is the enemy of performance in all regards. It's less efficient (more gas spent to run the trail, or get to the trail), it puts more stress on running gear necessitating bigger axles driveshafts, u-joints, etc, and it takes more power to run.

I've often thought of putting a V6 in the XJ because the 4.0 is so damn long. My thoughts always tended towards the Chevy 4.3 though.

Exactly, lighter with like or greater power will be a significant plus on any vehicle no matter what it's lot in life may be. Personally I'd probably put in a 2wd that is either a prerunner or a street truck that has some of the power goodies made for the JK's with that motor on it instead

 

[yossarian19]

Yeah, guys, I understand that nobody is pitching a tent over a V6 (except me)

My cherokee is my DD and might be for a long time to come. The 4.0 has 115K on it, so I won't be swapping it out soon. By the time I blow out the 4.0, the Minivan motor should be cheaper / more available. A stroker makes sense because it is easy but most are no more powerful than the Pacifica 4.0. V8 is sexy as hell but not needed for a DD - I think 275 ft-lbs & 240 HP or so will move a 3100 lb cherokee just fine.

So again - technically, it looks like making guages work & fooling the Pacifica ECU into thinking it is in the Pacifica would be the hard part. Swapping guage clusters may be possible, or going after market... Finding a stick shift to bolt up would be ideal for the transmission.

 

[blubullett]

So again - technically, it looks like making guages work & fooling the Pacifica ECU into thinking it is in the Pacifica would be the hard part. Swapping guage clusters may be possible, or going after market... Finding a stick shift to bolt up would be ideal for the transmission.

That IS the hard part. After you swap the engine including factory air intake and cat's you have to be able to get that pesky check engine light to go away. Its one thing to get it to run, another to get it to pass inspection by a smog nazi. The ECU may miss it's factory auto trans too. And a guage cluster swap might be required. I don't know about mopar but with Ford stuff you would have to swap the cluster and ecu or the antitheft system goes crazy. The easiest CA legal swap is the GM E-Rod crate motors. Comes with everything you need and a CARB number. It is a little out of my price range though.

It you have the time and skill to do it I would go for it. Loose a bunch of weight off the front and gain some power. If someone gave me a minivan and my motor went south I would think of doing it. If I had to buy everything though I would go V8. Too much power is almost enough.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

Where is John D when you need him? ha! i think the swap has merit for the reasons mentioned. but if i were to PERSUE a swap it wouldnt be my choice and im sure many would agree. ive seen a couple 4.0s with upwards of 300k miles, mine is at 150k and doing great. why is yours such a turd? you could buy a cheapy motor to put on a stand to build in your free time and when it finally does go youve either got incentive to finish it up or youll have it done and waiting. lots of money saved.

I enjoy them too.. and when I get tired of them, I drive 2 hours back to civilization where it's 70 again.

you can have your cold water jet stream... i like wearing board shorts when i surf.

Will post up some pics for you.

LET ME KNOW!:smootch:

 

[bigdaddyjlove]

I'm curious about the reasoning too.

I certainly understand, and aplaud, wanting to do somthing different, but MPG and power as reasons? Since putting the homebrew stroker in my daughter's TJ her MPG is UP, not down. It make comperable power to what you are talking about doing and it cost $1200.00 complete.

Plus, down the road, upkeep is easy. Parts are cheap and plentiful in the JY. So many reasons.

That being said, if you swap in something unusual, I'll watch really closely and follow the thread for ideas.

 

[xjchris98]

Why not a GM V6? The supercharged 3800 series II (L67) will bolt right up to the AW4 with an Isuzu bell-housing. Stock, they put out 240hp and 280 lb/ft of torque. Add a smaller pulley and a mild cam and your looking at numbers in the 300 range.

 

[bjoehandley]

Here's some info from Allpar on the pushrod 3.3l and 3.8l.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html

Now here's some on the 3.8l and 4.0l
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/38-40.html

Then here's some info on the Nitro, which could make for a decent donor if you were able to score a wrecked R/T.
http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/dodge/nitro.html

and finally, specs from Allpar on the JK's drivetrain, which could make for an interesting swap donor as well, if you were going to put the whole engine/trans/T-Case in a XJ.

2007 JEEP WRANGLER SPECIFICATIONS
Dimensions are in inches (millimeters) unless otherwise noted.

ENGINE: 3.8-LITER, OHV, 12-VALVE SMPI V-6
Type and Description............................................................................Six-cylinder, 60° V-type, liquid-cooled
Displacement….....................................................................................................230.5 cu. in. (3778 cu. cm)
Bore x Stroke….............................................................................................................. 3.78 x 3.43 (96 x 87)
Valve System........................................................................OHV, 12 valves, roller followers, hydraulic lifters
Fuel Injection.............................................................................................. Sequential, multi-port, electronic
Construction………………...................................................................... Cast-iron block, aluminum alloy heads
Compression Ratio…………..................................................................................................................... 9.6:1
Power (SAE net)…........................................................................ 205 hp (153 kW) @ 5,200 rpm (53.9 hp/L)
Torque (SAE net)...................................................................................... 240 lb.-ft. (325 N•m) @ 4,000 rpm
Fuel Recommendation..........................................................................Unleaded regular, 87 octane (R+M)/2
Oil Capacity....................................................................................................................6 qt. (5.7L) plus filter
Coolant Capacity........................................................................................................ 13.36 qt. (12.64L) Std.
Emission Controls…..................................................................Three-way catalytic converter, heated oxygen sensors, electronic EGR and internal engine features
Meets Tier 2 Bin 5 (federal) and LEV 2 (CA) emission requirements

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Alternator...............................................................................................................................................160A
Battery………………………………................................................................................600 CCA, maintenance-free

TRANSMISSION: NSG 370—MANUAL, SIX-SPEED OVERDRIVE
Availability…...........................................................................................................................Std.—All models
Description............................................................................. Synchronized in all forward gears and reverse,
multi-rail shift system with top-mounted shift lever
Clutch....................................................................................Hydraulic actuation
Gear Ratios
1st _........................................................................................................................................................ 4.46
2nd_........................................................................................................................................................ 2.61
3rd_......................................................................................................................................................... 1.72
4th_ ........................................................................................................................................................ 1.25
5th_ ........................................................................................................................................................ 1.00
6th_ ........................................................................................................................................................ 0.84
Reverse.................................................................................................................................................... 4.06

Axle Ratio.............................................................................................3.21 Std., 4.10 Opt. (Std. on Rubicon)
Overall Top Gear...................................................................................2.69 Std., 3.44 Opt. (Std. on Rubicon)

TRANSMISSION: 42RLE—AUTOMATIC, FOUR-SPEED OVERDRIVE
Availability………………........................................................................................................................Optional Description.....................................................Electronic governor, electronically controlled converter clutch

Gear Ratios
1st _ ....................................................................................................................................................... 2.84
2nd_........................................................................................................................................................ 1.57
3rd_ ...........................................................................................................................................................1.0
4th_ ........................................................................................................................................................ 0.69
Reverse.................................................................................................................................................... 2.21

Axle Ratio................................................................................................................................................. 4.10
Overall Top Gear...................................................................................................................................... 2.83

TRANSFER CASE: NV241 COMMAND-TRAC
Type…………........................................................................................................................................Part-time
Operating Modes .........................................................................................................2WD High; 4WD High; Neutral; 4WD Low
Low Range Ratio................................................................................................................................... 2.72:1
Center Differential Type…….....................................................................................................................None

TRANSFER CASE: NV241OR ROCK-TRAC
Type............................................................................................................................... Part-time, heavy-duty
Operating Modes .........................................................................................................2WD High; 4WD High; Neutral; 4WD Low
Low Range Ratio…….................................................................................................................................4.0:1
Center Differential Type…………..............................................................................................................................................None

Besides weight and length, another advantage with a 3.8l swap over any other V engine would be engine width since these engines are a 60* V instead of the normal 90* V, so it should fit better between the rails than any comparable V engine with the exception of GM's 2.8-3.4l V-6 and likely be far, far better than those GM's engines too!

 

[blubullett]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2011...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

$1900 for a 900 mile 3.8.

 

[mmcswss]

I think I saw that painless released a harness.

 

[Darky]

I think theirs is to swap JK engine into a TJ. Might be able to retrofit it into an XJ though.

 

[OttawaXJ]

Doesnt make much sense to you guys because you pay like 50 cents a litre, where as I just filled up at 1.20 a litre.

I'm skipping this and going propane, much cheaper.

 

[Sillyfast]

One other thing to consider is not all of use have 4.0Ls. I have been thinking about many V6 possibilities to replace the 2.5 but I have a hard time doing all that work and not having a smallblock v8

 

[jeeperjohn]

Doesnt make much sense to you guys because you pay like 50 cents a litre, where as I just filled up at 1.20 a litre.

I'm skipping this and going propane, much cheaper.

Propane is not a bad choice. It would qualify a Cherokee as a low emissions vehicle here in Cali I think. Only problem is it is sometimes harder to find propane to refill.

 

[derrickdrew17]

You can put a Jeep liberty Diesel in a XJ you just have to register it as a liberty not as a Cherokee... make sure you swap the whole drive train out...Ive seen it done before but with a Chevy drive train.

I rather get the Diesel out of a Dodge Sprinter more HP and TQ

 

[bjoehandley]

One other thing to consider is not all of use have 4.0Ls. I have been thinking about many V6 possibilities to replace the 2.5 but I have a hard time doing all that work and not having a smallblock v8

That would make an extremely viable swap for early trucks that have the GM V-6 in it too.

 

[OttawaXJ]

Propane is not a bad choice. It would qualify a Cherokee as a low emissions vehicle here in Cali I think. Only problem is it is sometimes harder to find propane to refill.

Propane is everywhere, trouble is you can only refill it between business hours at most places. But thats why I'd run a regular 15 gallon main tank and have a 5 gallon reserve on the side just incase.

 

[Darky]

Which would still get you less distance than normal...besides, propane isn't common everywhere. There were only a couple places we could fill our forklift at work, so we just ran it on gas. It was easier, and close in price out here.

 

[OttawaXJ]

Which would still get you less distance than normal...besides, propane isn't common everywhere. There were only a couple places we could fill our forklift at work, so we just ran it on gas. It was easier, and close in price out here.

Which is fine when you're paying 50 cents a litre like you guys do, we pay 1.20/Litre... aka $4.50/Gallon.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Which is fine when you're paying 50 cents a litre like you guys do, we pay 1.20/Litre... aka $4.50/Gallon.

If you're that concerned about the price of fuel, you're in the wrong vehicle.