242 Hd Sye?

[Vince]

Yes, I did think about the 241 first but it doesn't have the Jeep compatible speedo sender - JB designed the 241 shorty for GM vehicles and nobody has confirmed that the bolt holes are exactly aligned between 241 & 242. I figured, the Wrangler kit would be easier to interface to an XJ and that their 231 kit would remain a viable product for some years to come.

The 4 to 5 bolt adapter itself will have production costs, but as it's fairly simple to produce it is likely to be cheaper than a lost wax casting for a new tail cone. I would go the casting route but I don't know enough about the speedo sender that JB uses. If I could do the sender myself, I would have the tail cone cast and avoid the JB parts altogether.

The extra length that the 4-5 bolt adapter adds isn't an issue on an XJ, it will still be shorter than an RE H&T.

 

[Vince]

The meeting went well. The Engineer reckons he can make the shafts and the suggests an initial quantity of 10 to 20 max. In order to prove the breaking strength he is going to make a corresponding splined jig so that I can send a finished shaft to another company for a torsion destruction test.

I've got to do a lot of design work now to get this project rolling. Not knowing what steel the 231HD shaft is made from or what hardening and stress relieving processes (sufficient to do the job), puts me at a disadvantage. I don't want to unnecessarily spend on having the 242HD shaft made to F1 race car specs, so I will have to determine an acceptable spec that will be financially viable and equivalent in strength to the 242AMG shaft. I will be reading my old reference books for the next few days to try and come up with a few options.

I could do with some help on the following:-

1. I need to know if the 241 tail cone will bolt up to a 242 casing with perfect shaft alignment through the tail cone. Looking similar doesn't necessarily mean it is. Until I know this for a fact, I will continue with the 4-5 bolt adapter plate.

2. I need to know the screw thread size and type required for securing the yoke to the shaft. My British Engineer usually works in metric but I guess the shaft wont be.

3. Are there any internal differences (shaft differences) between NP242 and NV242J over the years? I will be making the first batch for NV242J if there is.

4. If anyone can work out how to build a Jeep compatible electronic speedo sender like JB's from other OEM parts and will share that info, I can get a new tail cone cast and avoid buying any of the JB parts.

Sorry, I don't have a price quote yet, there are simply too many unknowns to get a good estimate. Taking a complete guess, I reckon the price will be close to $800 using JB parts and $600 if I can make an electronic speedo tailcone. Note this is a breakeven, I need-one-for-my-Jeep price. If I make 10, 2 will be used for destruction testing, 3 kept back for spares, 1 for me, leaving only 4 for sale. If I do 20, 2 test, 3 spares, 1 for me, leaving 14 for sale. I'm going to be spending close to $2,000 on development and $10,000 to make 20 so will probably need to raise some business finance to do this. Anyone willing at this stage to say they will buy one? If I can't get 14 people to say yes then no wonder JB, AA and TW haven't built a HD242 or ever will.

 

[Gojeep]

Just make it a 32 spline and then you can use the same yoke and nut that is used on the front output of the 242 case. I know that Tom Woods just uses a standard Spicer 32 spline yoke for his HD kits as well.
If you could find out what speed sensor JB uses, ( it will be for some stock vehicle and not just made for him ) then you might as well make the whole housing. I would make it from billet aluminium to bolt directly to the 4 holes instead of an adaptor and that it will hold a seal and the speed sensor. Wont be that much thicker than the adaptor you were going to do and be the same length as the JB shorty kits.

 

[Vince]

Your right, machining the tail cone from billet will be easier and cheaper. The speedo is a real problem for me as I'm not that good with electronics.

I've been looking at the internals of the 242 a little more closely. The epicyclic gear set has three planets I believe, does the 241 and 242AMG have four?

 

[Gojeep]

The AMG one has 6 in the low range planetary gear set.
The main shaft out of one of those is the same as what you are thinking of having made with the pre 96 having a 27 spline output and the 96+ having 32. Go back through this topic and look at all the links relating to the Hummer 242 case and see. Otherwise let me know and I can show you a photo of the main shafts of a Jeep 242 verses a AMG version in both the 27 and 32 version that Chris from this board put together for me. I really think you are better off just getting a AMG case which has the beefy main shaft plus a wider chain, oil cooler and the 6 gear planetaries.

 

[Vince]

My line of thought was, If I go to the trouble of making a custom shaft, how much extra effort to retrofit the AMG planetaries, chain and front shaft. This is based on the assumption that these parts will be easier to source from an AMG/Hummer parts supplier than finding a complete, functioning AMG242 to swap in. If the AMG parts are prohibitively expensive, would a custom 32 spline shaft just move the weakpoint up to the planetaries and chain?

I'm not too bothered about the cooler, but if the cooler is available as a spare part then I don't see how it couldn't be retrofitted to any 242.

There would still be a Jeep to AMG speedo compatibility problem to resolve if swapping in a 242AMG.

 

[Vince]

I read through the thread again as suggested. Now I'm thinking, is it worth starting with a 32 spline AMG shaft and modifying it to take a yoke. Then making a speedo sender that will convert any 242AMG or 242J with an AMG shaft to the Jeep speedo using a billet tail cone.

 

[jeepnuts311]

i have a 242AMG from a humvee at my apartment, it is from a late model 2000 or 2001 IIRC (the build date is stamped on the ID tag) , but it is 32 spline all around, and has a slip yoke.

i thought about fitting the 1.5" chain and gears in my jeep 242 which has a 1" chain, but i dont know if the jeep case is wide enough to accept that.

there is no provision for 2wd in the AMG case, so i opted not to swap that into my jeep.

i picked the AMG case up relatively cheap and i will sell it for $150 if anybody lives close enough to arrange to meet sometime. i dont know if i can ship it, it weighs about 93 lbs. im in GA, near atlanta.

-tim

(pics are available, but i wont be back home for 2 days)

 

[Root Moose]

Damn, if I could arrange shipping to 13669 I'd be all over that.

 

[Clean Racing]

I read through the thread again as suggested. Now I'm thinking, is it worth starting with a 32 spline AMG shaft and modifying it to take a yoke. Then making a speedo sender that will convert any 242AMG or 242J with an AMG shaft to the Jeep speedo using a billet tail cone.

Vince.

You should also note that the 242 AMG tail housing has a 1/4" difference on the mounting thickness for the tail bearing.. I have a 242 AMG shaft and tailcone that I am playing with to create a SYE for the jeep 242. Let me tell you about a shaft that I made a year ago with the 242 dimensions on the front side, and a jb short 231 on the tail side... Getting a prototype Shaft custom machined, splined, and heat treated was very costly... All to find out that some of the machined faces were the wrong tolerances... I am interested in talking with you about this... Thanks..

Scott.

 

[jeepnuts311]

i might be able to ship but i think you would end up paying more for shipping than for the unit, but i have no use for the thing anymore and it takes up precious space i do not have.

-tim

 

[Root Moose]

i might be able to ship but i think you would end up paying more for shipping than for the unit, but i have no use for the thing anymore and it takes up precious space i do not have.

-tim

I'm definitely interested.

Drop me a PM and we will see if we can work something out. Shipping would be to upstate New York (13669) but I need to find the name of the company that is able to take large/heavy deliveries there.

Can you send me a few pictures? What year is this t-case? It think it might be on the tag.

 

[Vince]

Just thought I would have a look and find out how much a new 242AMG would cost. Cheapest I found was $1695 from http://www.bluehummer.com/newhutrca.html it sort of puts things into perspective for how much is it worth spending on a 242J, a bit like spending on a D30.

Root Moose - DHL should be able to handle shipping for you, you may need to have it crated. If you decide not to buy it, I'm interested.

 

[Vince]

Found this info about the 242AMG cooler. Seems like it's not that good a thing to have. It has a fault that has been termed 'The Vampire' which bleeds the case dry of fluid.

http://flashoffroad.com/features/Tcase/Vampire/vampire.htm

Probably worth watching for when buying a used 242AMG.

 

[Root Moose]

Found this info about the 242AMG cooler. Seems like it's not that good a thing to have. It has a fault that has been termed 'The Vampire' which bleeds the case dry of fluid.

http://flashoffroad.com/features/Tcase/Vampire/vampire.htm

Hmm, didn't realize it used transmission fluid FROM THE TRANSMISSION to cool the t-case. Thought it was just a separate cooler like the trans cooler.

Just as well, probaby wouldn't be prudent to hook that system up that way anyway.

Stick on a secondary pump to run between the external cooler and the transfer case... stick it near the radiator to get heat in winter. You'd probably want to stick a thermo on it to monitor it while figuring out where exactly to stick the external cooler. Maybe stick a reservoir/sink in line for capacity cooling.

If the transfer case cooler fails at that point there is minimal chance of running the t-case dry before noticing it.

Or something like that...

 

[scott00tj]

I hate to bring up an old post for my first post here, but this is really intreging to me.

I had a 98XJ with the 242 and loved it. I am not begining the process of swapping a 242 into my TJ. I have already put a XJ's AW4 tranny in my TJ. The 242 is replacing a 231 built by JB Conversions with their SSYE and HD kit. The full time option is that important to me.

The 242 I have on the way is from a 98XJ and should bolt right up to my AW4, however I will need to add at least an SYE to it.

 

[CartsXJ]

I hate to bring up an old post for my first post here, but this is really intreging to me.

I had a 98XJ with the 242 and loved it. I am not begining the process of swapping a 242 into my TJ. I have already put a XJ's AW4 tranny in my TJ. The 242 is replacing a 231 built by JB Conversions with their SSYE and HD kit. The full time option is that important to me.

The 242 I have on the way is from a 98XJ and should bolt right up to my AW4, however I will need to add at least an SYE to it.

As long as the spline counts match, they should. If you are using a late model AW4 and a late model 242 they bolt right up. I am just wondering, how short is your rear driveshaft gonna be?

 

[scott00tj]

As long as the spline counts match, they should. If you are using a late model AW4 and a late model 242 they bolt right up. I am just wondering, how short is your rear driveshaft gonna be?

The AW4 is from a 2000 XJ. I am concerned with the rear drive shaft length. It's already short, but I believe it can be done. There are a few people over on JU who are running 242s in their TJs. It's gonna be short I know that!

 

[CartsXJ]

The AW4 is from a 2000 XJ. I am concerned with the rear drive shaft length. It's already short, but I believe it can be done. There are a few people over on JU who are running 242s in their TJs. It's gonna be short I know that!

You should be fine bolting everything up. Are those guys running the 242's in their TJ's, running a manual or an auto. That AW4 of yours is already pretty long.

 

[Root Moose]

It's gonna be short - probably stock flattie Dana 18 to rear axle short kinda short... maybe ~11" or less depending on the double carden joint used.

If he doesn't have too much lift he might be able to get away with a normal double u-jointed shaft. Maybe check what the static u-joint angles are and look into some of the aftermarket high clearance u-joints.