- Location
- Curtis Bay, MD
[FONT="]Good morning everyone[/FONT]
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[FONT="]It's been a long time since I've been on here, I just haven’t been doing a lot of Jeep stuff and have had a lot of life shit thrown at me. But, I still do have an XJ albeit a different one, and now I could use some opinions/advice.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Maybe 10 years ago I bought a 1999 XJ from my cousin which was a great vehicle. I treated it like I was going to own it forever; unfortunately after maybe 4 years or so a part of the wiring harness chafed through, took out the PCM, and nobody could ever get it to run without a MIL again which was a non starter for me as I lived in Loudoun County VA which required annual emissions tests (nothing has changed since; I've lived in Montgomery and now Prince George's counties in MD and while here it's every two years, I couldn't have kept the poor thing.) I found a replacement that was in some ways better and some ways not; it's a 2000 XJ, 4.0, AW4, 242, 8.25 trac-lok, Upcountry suspension, and at some point someone added 16" Icon wheels (door sticker says 225/75R15 tires). The bad news is it had 250K miles when I bought it, and now almost 300K miles on it (probably going to turn 299K either tonight or tomorrow), leaks oil worse than a Harley (pass side of head), and has significantly more dents and rust than my old one. This was supposed to be a temporary beater vehicle but I've had it 5 years now and a) can't afford another vehicle for various reasons and b) have come to really like the combination of the upcountry suspension and the 242 transfer case, this is a very confidence inspiring bad weather bomber. However, due to my going through a real bad financial patch and also working 70-80 hour weeks regularly, Heep got nothing more than oil changes and repairs. Also, once Covid hit, I was really only going back and forth to the office which was 6 miles and involved no highway driving (this is important, I promise.)[/FONT]
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[FONT="]So now to the situation. Late last year I found that the tires that I'd installed when I first bought the vehicle were close to the wear bars, and so I got on Tire Rack to see what there was. Rather than buying the same tires again (Yokohama Geolandar AT, their lack of traction in wet weather turned me off of them) I bought a set of General Grabber ATs size 235/70R16 as they appeared to be somewhat reasonably priced but were still excellently rated; even today they're Tire Rack's #3 rated tire in their "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" category. At the time I was still working at my old job, but I ended up being notified that my services were no longer needed and started a new job at the beginning of January. My new job is much better, but it's about 25 miles each way and a lot of that drive is highway, with speeds up to ~85 MPH. A few months ago, it was time for an oil change and because I wasn't working as much I figured I would do it myself. I did, and I rotated the tires at the same time - the first time these new tires had been rotated - and almost immediately I noticed a severe vibration. At the same time, which probably isn't really relevant, my exhaust fell apart in front of the cat so Heep sat for a couple weeks, and at the same time I also changed the gear oil in the axles, ATF in transfer case, and also changed the ATF in the transmission a few times through the drain plug (it still looks bad, but better!) I’m making more money now, not enough to buy a new vehicle, but enough that if I feel that one of the vehicles I have needs parts, the only limiting factor is my available time to so the work.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]I took the Heep to a shop a coworker recommended near the office and they balanced all four tires (they said that it needed it) and it felt much better, but there still was a vibration through the steering wheel and through the floor at ~50 MPH and up. Nowhere near as bad as before, but it was still there. To me, it felt like it was a higher frequency than I'd expect from wheels or tires so I immediately suspected driveshafts. I took both driveshafts out and had them rebuilt and balance checked by A-1 in Baltimore which was actually quite reasonable (less than $400 for both including centering ball, spring, etc. for the front). I also found a bad repair for a stripped pinion yoke on the rear axle, so I replaced the rear pinion yoke, bolts, and straps. The front driveshaft took over a week to get done because the shop had to wait for the centering ball and assorted parts to show up so I actually drove the Heep for about a week with no front driveshaft and annoyingly, while it appears that getting the driveshafts rebuilt was due, that was not the source of my vibration. While all this was going on, my left front wheel bearing went bad so I replaced both with new Timken ones (now made in China BTW), and I saw that my front brakes were getting pretty thin too so I installed new pads and rotors (kept old calipers because as you can see I've been spending lots of money on an old beater!)[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Long story short, literally nothing I did made any difference whatsoever other than I had the satisfaction of knowing that all the mechanical stuff was right. At this point I have replaced everything that I would think could cause a vibration like I'm feeling; ball joints and tie rod ends feel OK, I thought maybe motor mounts but I literally can't get them right now, I have an order in with Brown Dog for the motor mounts but they're apparently made to order, and am waiting for Stinky to get back from vacation to order the trans mount, but I really don't think that's the issue.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]So, to recap, I have new tires, U-joints (the front axle ones have been replaced too within the last 50K miles, but those can’t be the issue anyway as I have vibration while driving perfectly straight), rear pinion yoke, front pads, rotors, and wheel bearings. Vibration still there and annoying enough because not only can I feel it it resonates at certain speeds, and with traffic sometimes I’m forced to drive at those speeds.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]I took the Heep back to the shop that balanced the wheels and tires yesterday with all the shiny (OK, a lot of them are semi gloss black) parts underneath and asked them to take another look. They were cool about it and said that first, we apparently both missed that the top nut for the RF shock had vibrated off at some point (how was the bushing still there? I dunno) and they rebalanced the RF tire and found it in balance but road force was “way out” and they swapped right side F&R. I was assured that the wheels did not have noticeable runout (I asked, because three of these wheels I’ve never used before, because I bought them off Craigslist a few years back when I found that one of the wheels that came with the vehicle was badly bent. Seller would only sell four wheels as a set, and price was good enough I bought them all. I chose to use the “new” wheels when I put the tires on because that way I would get rid of the junk tires that were on them and keep my old worn but OK tires on known good wheels for spares, and then theoretically I would have a go/no go on all the wheels as to whether they would run true or not.) I did kind of get a vibe that while they were cool, they had done all they were going to do for me on this issue, the service writer mentioned several times that my tires did have a “very aggressive tread” (what do you expect? It’s a Jeep! Also, what I’m feeling is not the hum/buzz you’d expect from aggressive AT or MT tires.)[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Well, it still pretty much drives the same as it did when I got it back the first time. MAYBE the vibration is decreased a little bit, but it’s essentially the same. Yes, I know that it’s a hideously ugly 300K miles XJ, but theoretically it should drive well at this point.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Does anyone have any ideas what else I can check on this? I do have new Brown Dog motor mounts on order and am planning on ordering a trans mount from SFR once Stinky is back in the office, but other than that I don’t have any ideas besides find another shop to look at it which is embarrassing to me. I am thinking I probably should replace the steering damper, as at this mileage I bet it’s just cosmetic, but I feel that that’s just a band-aid which is masking the underlying problem. Also, recommendations on a shop good with these kinds of issues near me would be appreciated. I live in Berwyn Heights, MD and work near BWI.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Given that the shop seems to think that the tires and not the wheels are the problem, has anyone had any luck getting Tire Rack to swap them out? It really is bad enough that if they’d be willing to do that I’d consider it. It is odd that these tires are so well rated and yet they are riding so shitty for me.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Anyway, if you’ve read this far, thanks for doing so and let me know if you have any ideas or input.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]It's been a long time since I've been on here, I just haven’t been doing a lot of Jeep stuff and have had a lot of life shit thrown at me. But, I still do have an XJ albeit a different one, and now I could use some opinions/advice.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Maybe 10 years ago I bought a 1999 XJ from my cousin which was a great vehicle. I treated it like I was going to own it forever; unfortunately after maybe 4 years or so a part of the wiring harness chafed through, took out the PCM, and nobody could ever get it to run without a MIL again which was a non starter for me as I lived in Loudoun County VA which required annual emissions tests (nothing has changed since; I've lived in Montgomery and now Prince George's counties in MD and while here it's every two years, I couldn't have kept the poor thing.) I found a replacement that was in some ways better and some ways not; it's a 2000 XJ, 4.0, AW4, 242, 8.25 trac-lok, Upcountry suspension, and at some point someone added 16" Icon wheels (door sticker says 225/75R15 tires). The bad news is it had 250K miles when I bought it, and now almost 300K miles on it (probably going to turn 299K either tonight or tomorrow), leaks oil worse than a Harley (pass side of head), and has significantly more dents and rust than my old one. This was supposed to be a temporary beater vehicle but I've had it 5 years now and a) can't afford another vehicle for various reasons and b) have come to really like the combination of the upcountry suspension and the 242 transfer case, this is a very confidence inspiring bad weather bomber. However, due to my going through a real bad financial patch and also working 70-80 hour weeks regularly, Heep got nothing more than oil changes and repairs. Also, once Covid hit, I was really only going back and forth to the office which was 6 miles and involved no highway driving (this is important, I promise.)[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]So now to the situation. Late last year I found that the tires that I'd installed when I first bought the vehicle were close to the wear bars, and so I got on Tire Rack to see what there was. Rather than buying the same tires again (Yokohama Geolandar AT, their lack of traction in wet weather turned me off of them) I bought a set of General Grabber ATs size 235/70R16 as they appeared to be somewhat reasonably priced but were still excellently rated; even today they're Tire Rack's #3 rated tire in their "On-/Off-Road All-Terrain" category. At the time I was still working at my old job, but I ended up being notified that my services were no longer needed and started a new job at the beginning of January. My new job is much better, but it's about 25 miles each way and a lot of that drive is highway, with speeds up to ~85 MPH. A few months ago, it was time for an oil change and because I wasn't working as much I figured I would do it myself. I did, and I rotated the tires at the same time - the first time these new tires had been rotated - and almost immediately I noticed a severe vibration. At the same time, which probably isn't really relevant, my exhaust fell apart in front of the cat so Heep sat for a couple weeks, and at the same time I also changed the gear oil in the axles, ATF in transfer case, and also changed the ATF in the transmission a few times through the drain plug (it still looks bad, but better!) I’m making more money now, not enough to buy a new vehicle, but enough that if I feel that one of the vehicles I have needs parts, the only limiting factor is my available time to so the work.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I took the Heep to a shop a coworker recommended near the office and they balanced all four tires (they said that it needed it) and it felt much better, but there still was a vibration through the steering wheel and through the floor at ~50 MPH and up. Nowhere near as bad as before, but it was still there. To me, it felt like it was a higher frequency than I'd expect from wheels or tires so I immediately suspected driveshafts. I took both driveshafts out and had them rebuilt and balance checked by A-1 in Baltimore which was actually quite reasonable (less than $400 for both including centering ball, spring, etc. for the front). I also found a bad repair for a stripped pinion yoke on the rear axle, so I replaced the rear pinion yoke, bolts, and straps. The front driveshaft took over a week to get done because the shop had to wait for the centering ball and assorted parts to show up so I actually drove the Heep for about a week with no front driveshaft and annoyingly, while it appears that getting the driveshafts rebuilt was due, that was not the source of my vibration. While all this was going on, my left front wheel bearing went bad so I replaced both with new Timken ones (now made in China BTW), and I saw that my front brakes were getting pretty thin too so I installed new pads and rotors (kept old calipers because as you can see I've been spending lots of money on an old beater!)[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Long story short, literally nothing I did made any difference whatsoever other than I had the satisfaction of knowing that all the mechanical stuff was right. At this point I have replaced everything that I would think could cause a vibration like I'm feeling; ball joints and tie rod ends feel OK, I thought maybe motor mounts but I literally can't get them right now, I have an order in with Brown Dog for the motor mounts but they're apparently made to order, and am waiting for Stinky to get back from vacation to order the trans mount, but I really don't think that's the issue.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]So, to recap, I have new tires, U-joints (the front axle ones have been replaced too within the last 50K miles, but those can’t be the issue anyway as I have vibration while driving perfectly straight), rear pinion yoke, front pads, rotors, and wheel bearings. Vibration still there and annoying enough because not only can I feel it it resonates at certain speeds, and with traffic sometimes I’m forced to drive at those speeds.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I took the Heep back to the shop that balanced the wheels and tires yesterday with all the shiny (OK, a lot of them are semi gloss black) parts underneath and asked them to take another look. They were cool about it and said that first, we apparently both missed that the top nut for the RF shock had vibrated off at some point (how was the bushing still there? I dunno) and they rebalanced the RF tire and found it in balance but road force was “way out” and they swapped right side F&R. I was assured that the wheels did not have noticeable runout (I asked, because three of these wheels I’ve never used before, because I bought them off Craigslist a few years back when I found that one of the wheels that came with the vehicle was badly bent. Seller would only sell four wheels as a set, and price was good enough I bought them all. I chose to use the “new” wheels when I put the tires on because that way I would get rid of the junk tires that were on them and keep my old worn but OK tires on known good wheels for spares, and then theoretically I would have a go/no go on all the wheels as to whether they would run true or not.) I did kind of get a vibe that while they were cool, they had done all they were going to do for me on this issue, the service writer mentioned several times that my tires did have a “very aggressive tread” (what do you expect? It’s a Jeep! Also, what I’m feeling is not the hum/buzz you’d expect from aggressive AT or MT tires.)[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Well, it still pretty much drives the same as it did when I got it back the first time. MAYBE the vibration is decreased a little bit, but it’s essentially the same. Yes, I know that it’s a hideously ugly 300K miles XJ, but theoretically it should drive well at this point.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Does anyone have any ideas what else I can check on this? I do have new Brown Dog motor mounts on order and am planning on ordering a trans mount from SFR once Stinky is back in the office, but other than that I don’t have any ideas besides find another shop to look at it which is embarrassing to me. I am thinking I probably should replace the steering damper, as at this mileage I bet it’s just cosmetic, but I feel that that’s just a band-aid which is masking the underlying problem. Also, recommendations on a shop good with these kinds of issues near me would be appreciated. I live in Berwyn Heights, MD and work near BWI.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Given that the shop seems to think that the tires and not the wheels are the problem, has anyone had any luck getting Tire Rack to swap them out? It really is bad enough that if they’d be willing to do that I’d consider it. It is odd that these tires are so well rated and yet they are riding so shitty for me.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Anyway, if you’ve read this far, thanks for doing so and let me know if you have any ideas or input.[/FONT]
