extending MPG, some notes

RichP · May 8, 2006

Been working on getting a bit better milage with my 98's new jasper motor, it was pretty cool having all the power back with it's newly built engine, however my milage was in the can. I started tracking my milage with the printout receipt that the machines will print out on demand. Used my trip meter which I have lived with for several years from that crappy OEM sender which lies. Wrote down every trip reading for the past 2 months and totaled them up today to see the results of the experiment I started 3 weeks ago.
I was getting 16-18mpg on my daily commutes, now that was pretty bad considering that 35 of the 42mi commute is on the PA turnpike and Rt 78. Started doing some reading, edmunds mostly and a couple of EPA DOE sites.
The one thing that they suggested was NOT using your engines ability to go from 0-60 in 8-12 seconds so I started being really easy on the gas pedal, never let the engine get above 2200 rpm and kept the gear range in the 1800-2000 rpm band. First off it takes me darn near 20 seconds to get up to 70mph which is where it now sits in 5th at 2000rpm. Did it as often as I could till it has now become a habit, I spend alot of time in the right lane now.
Within the last 2 weeks I am consistantly getting 22-23mpg, my best ever was today, got 23.7mpg which included about 38 miles of local weekend tourist traffic. I've gotten to a point of letting the XJ pretty much coast down the large hills on the turnpike coming thru the blue mountain tunnels.

$3.00 a gallon at 16mpg costs me .187 cents a mile at 82mi rtrip $15.334
$3.00 a gallon at 20mpg costs me .15 cents a mile at 82mi rtrip $12.30
$3.00 a gallon at 22mpg costs me .136 cents a mile at 82mi rtrip $11.18
Does not sound like much till you start totaling stuff up...into dollars.
The difference between the 16mpg and 22mpg is a whopping $4.15 A DAY in my case, $20.75 a week or $83 bucks a month... I also looked at the cost per mile last year when gas was $1.49 and cost was $.0745 based on $.20 per mile and from when it was new in 98 when gas was .99 a gallon and cost was $.0495 per mile.
Keeping your foot off the pedal is freaking hard as well as not going the 80mph I have been used to for the last 5 months on the turnpike, I've finally gotten used to the solid line of cars hauling ass including alot of big bruisers like tahoes, denali's and hummers, passing me in the left lane, which are popular around here and instead I find myself with a 10min longer commute and more cash in my wallet...
Just something to think about...if you do do this use a calculater, your cell phone should have one in it's tools menu so you have no excuse...

lost1 · May 8, 2006

dude its stuff like this that takes my fun away, because it makes sense and my lead foot doesn't.

All kidding aside, seems like everyboyd would know that but sometimes its good to see somebody do the numbers and make it a little 'real life.' thanks. I'm trying to do this myself, only marginal luck so far.

Slo-Sho · May 8, 2006

Analog vacuum gauge...this is a really useful tool in determining the mechanical operation of the engine efficiency wise.

bjoehandley · May 8, 2006

I've been forcing my AW4 to short shift at 3k or less while accelerating at 1/2 throttle or less ( I still get going quicker than alot of people at the same light:dunno: ), using cruise control more, timing traffic lights so I don't have to stop as much (a real pain in rushour traffic), drive speed limit, if I go to a fast food type place I walk there or stop and go in to order or eat, and I'm going to start riding my bike more for around town type stuff and for exercise (and with any luck, maybe lose a little weight and improve my mileage even more

)

mdl · May 8, 2006

3k?? I keep mine under 2 at all costs... unless on highway then its about 2.5...

Fergie · May 8, 2006

Been doing this since the day I started driving.

Even with a bad rear end, bad t-case and exhaust leak, I squeak 15mpg out of the XJ. I get close to 28 on the Subaru AWD wagon, and over 30 in the Breeze.

I do stomp on it when I need to, but I figure I can with the saving that I get. Think of it this way too, the difference in a full tank of gas is about one trip to Starschmucks, easy to cut out and save.

5-90 · May 9, 2006

Well...

Another observation is this - in my 88, when I stopped using fifth gear, I gained about 3 mpg highway/1 city - I'll take it.

Cruising in fourth (3.07 axle) at 65mph puts me somewhere around 2500rpm or so - peak torque happens somewhere around 2800. Cruising at 65 in fifth put me somewhere down around 2000 even or so (it's been so long I don't remember...) and that moves you fairly far away from the peak torque.

Peak VE happens at the torque peak - and that's a good place to let your engine just "lope" along.

I also don't "jackrabbit" the lights - I quit hurrying everywhere (much to the dismay of everyone around me...) when gasoline was still under $1 per gallon. Pick a steady speed, drive it, and try not to decelerate/accelerate too much. Steady State cruising at or near peack torque is the way to go (it burns more fuel than low rpm cruising, but you put more torque on the ground, and can therefore keep the brick moving more easily.)

I get annoyed at the beginning of the quarter in school - schmucks in the parking lot can't figure out where they're going, and from all that idling I end up getting 10-11mpg city. This increases after about the second week of each quarter, as the wimps drop classes.

I figure I get about 16 city and 20-21 highway, which works for me. It will probably go up when I finally get a decent gearbox - I'm tired of having to baby the Peugeot...

As far as the trip to Starschmucks - I've never gone there for anything but looking the guy behind the counter in the eye and saying "Coffee. Black." and watching the fun begin! I don't know what it is out here, but they seem to forget all about plain coffee made with ordinary tap water once they get behind that counter, and it's just fun to me to watch the screen go blank when I order it. I don't usually get it - I just order it to have fun! Whatever happened to plain black coffee, anyhow? Do it even better - with a pinch of salt and an old eggshell in the pot...

Beyond that, I'm not really into "fancy" anything.

5-90

scottd29 · May 9, 2006

Here is a pretty good article from CNN on how to save fuel.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/05/01/driving_for_mpg/index.html

I want my Lsc · May 9, 2006

Well documented and interesting results. I cruise too fast, accelerate too fast (but braking is smooth - according to my wife) and get 17.5 city and 21.5 highway in my 4.0 (shhh, it's a ZJ). I was always from the school that my time is worth more than a few saved dollars at the pump. I still feel that way but I sold my business 3 years ago to go back to school, so while money is not exactly tight yet (and I only drive 50 miles a week) I am willing to try new things as long as I have the time.

BMW did a test a few years back and they found the way to get the best mileage was smoothly and quickly accelerating to your desired speed and setting the cruise control. My first tank trying this I got .6mpg better around town - but it is one tank, if I can sustain it I will write my own post.

Trailbst · May 9, 2006

This was posted on another club BB.

Interesting reading as well.

The government has been keeping a secret about automobiles under wraps for the past 30 years.

Reporter Michelle Meredith teamed up with Consumer Reports to explain why your car probably does not get the mileage advertised.

The Consumer Reports' auto test track in Connecticut looks like it could be a new theme park in Orlando.

And when it comes to testing cars, Consumer Reports leaves no stone unturned, no lug nut loose. And here's the question Consumer Reports set out to answer -- does your car get the gas mileage promised on the showroom sticker.

It's the mileage you probably used to decide if the car fit your monthly budget.

First, Meredith took a look at how carmakers come up with these numbers because you could be in for a big surprise. The guidelines for the tests were set by the federal government decades ago, in the late 1970s. Gerald Ford was president and disco was king.

And under these guidelines by the
Environmental Protection Agency, carmakers are allowed to test miles per gallon by running the vehicle not on the road, but on what's essentially a treadmill for cars.

During an EPA spot check, the car ran with no air conditioning, no inclines or hills, no wind resistance and at speeds no greater than 60 mph.

There's hardly anything real world about it, but it gives carmakers what they want -- the highest possible miles per gallon to put on that sticker.

"People are going into showrooms, they're looking at that sticker that says miles per gallon and they're saying, 'Oh it get goods miles per gallon,'" said Consumer Reports' David Champion. "In reality, they're being cheated."

Consumer Reports conducts their test on a track and in the real world.

First, they put them through a simulated city course. Next the highway -- a real highway. For the third test, they take the car out on a 150-mile day trip throughout Connecticut.

All the while, a special miles per gallon meter is ticking away. Their results? Many numbers you see on those stickers are off way off -- one as much as 50 percent.

For example, Chrysler says the four-wheel drive diesel version of the Jeep Liberty gets 22 mpg in the city. Consumer Reports tested it and found it got more like 11 mpg.

Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.

Chevy's Trailblazer EXT four-wheel drive is supposed to get 15 mpg in the city. For Consumer Reports, it was 9 mpg.

"It's an unrealistic sales and marketing tool that they are actually using. They are saying you're going to get 35 mpg, and you're really only going to get 21," Champion said.

Why is this allowed? Meredith asked the EPA's director of transportation.

"We cannot have a perfect test," said Margo Oge.

Oge said for so long, nobody really complained. Meanwhile, everything has changed.

"All the cars today have air conditioning, which was not the case in the mid-80s, and we drive at higher speeds because we are allowed to drive a higher speeds. And technology has changed," Oge said.

Carmakers know their number is up. Several have been to Consumer Reports' test track to see how they test real world conditions.

"I think it's desperately time for a change," Champion said.

The EPA has said a change is coming in time for the 2008 models, but is that soon enough? Consumers need real world tests with real world numbers now because with the price of gas constantly climbing, the real world has become a very ugly place.

The EPA said even though the new test will reflect more real-world conditions, there is no perfect test.

For more information and for a list of the most fuel efficient cars and SUVs, check out Consumer Reports' special report A Guide To Stretching Your Fuel Dollars.

goodburbon · May 9, 2006

funny.......fourwheeler got 21.5 mpg in their long term test liberty CRD over 2588 miles, with worst tank mileage over 17.

My mother drives the saab equivalent to the trailblazer and it gets 17 avg mpg, not 9.

I don't think consumer reports is very accurate, their "real world" isn't very real.

Edit: Consumer reports hates everything Jeep puts out and consistiently under rates the mileage of jeep vehicles and over estimates mechanical failure issues.

oh and FWIW in a Fourwheeler of the year contest FW mag ranked the H-2 above a few more qualified contenders, and showed a pic of its front tires facing each other.....they made mention of a competitor getting a flat, but nothing about weak ass tie rods...WTF?

Root Moose · May 9, 2006

Yep, I get around 22 mpg. I used to get more before the bull bar. Make use of the cruise control as well.

Consumer Reports is complete and total garbage. Their "reporting" is more opinion than anything else. Remember the Samurai?

Those mpg numbers above could only be remotely accurate if the high side was highway cruise (optimized) and the low (CR) numbers were stop and go traffic pushing the clutch all day long.

I agree that the sticker on new cars are too high since they are lab numbers, but the spin CR is attempting to put on them is the greater dis-service to the public. In my experience 10-15% difference between the sticker and the real world is realistic.

I drive my XJ every day. Co-workers and such say I am nuts to drive it given the price of gas. I say they are nuts to go out and buy a new $30k econo-box and put on insurance and maintenance. I spend around $4k on gas a year with the XJ... How much difference is there at 35 mpg versus 22 mpg? You still gotta put gas in the econo-box.

You can make yourself broke "saving money".

Just my spin.

5-90 · May 9, 2006

An interesting point I hadn't consciously considered. Why don't I buy an econobox? Because (leaving aside the incompetence of the "average" Califonrnia driver...) I'd have to get something fairly new to make the mileage increase justify the expense - which means that I'd have to take a MASSIVE hit on my insurance bill, and my registration would probably take an exponential jump.

So, the money I'd save on fuel would go to insurance and registration - which would probably not actually "offset" the savings, but "overwhelm" the savings out here. I'd be likely to come out somewhat behind on that deal.

Frankly, I'd sooner buy something tangible with the money (even if it is just fuel - I can see fuel!) than give it to the insurance companies and the state in general - whose products are not tangible, that I cannot see, and that are of dubious value. I'll admit insurance can come in handy - but it's just betting against yourself, and you only win by losing.

As far as registration goes, I just don't see any need to prop up another government bureaucracy that is as generally useful as the vermiform appendix. I'll grant that some record should be made of a vehicle's change of ownership, but why pay every year to maintain that record? Store it in the computer, access it when you need it, and let that be that. What do we get for DMV fees out here anyhow? It can't be roads - they suck...

5-90

Root Moose · May 10, 2006

5-90 said:
An interesting point I hadn't consciously considered. Why don't I buy an econobox? Because (leaving aside the incompetence of the "average" Califonrnia driver...) I'd have to get something fairly new to make the mileage increase justify the expense - which means that I'd have to take a MASSIVE hit on my insurance bill, and my registration would probably take an exponential jump.

Well, you know me and conspiracy theories, I've got one for everything.

My pet theory this week is that the jacking of gas prices every time a "Hoodad-de-Doodad" in Iraq farts is just a way to spin the economy up a little faster. Everyone has an SUV in the garage by now, but they don't have an econobox so let's drive that market segment for more profit. Between that and the existing machines burning more fuel "everyone" gets rich.

In the circles I run in (through employment, not choice) people can't go buy a cheap under $20k Honda or Korean POS. They have to buy a TDI VW or a stupid "smart car" or something equally ridiculous. They use the fuel cost bullet point as a convenient justification to be trendy.

If you can't afford the extra ~$1000/year it takes to run a vehicle compared to this time a year or two ago then you probably can't afford to drive at all. Stop the whining (vernacularly speaking) and look for a real solution (move, telecommute, public transit, all of the preceding, whatever).

Sorry Rich, I'll stop now, don't mean to ruin your thread.

5-90 · May 10, 2006

OK - get the state of California out from under my hood and out of what's left of my hair, and let me get on with saving fuel.

I don't want a vehicle that's smarter than I am - that's just gagging for trouble. Technology should never replace skill. "Make a car any idiot can drive, and every idiot will have one." Collision-avoidance RADAR simply does not belong on a car - what we need are competent drivers, not anti-collision systems.

I have no interest at all in 'trendy' - "trendy" often does not equate to "useful." I buy working trucks - not Micro Machines. As I've mentioned before, I am not now and have never been a slave to fashion.

My schedule does not allow for carpooling (between school and odd jobs,) and working in trades pretty much eliminates the idea of telelcommuting. However, if many other people would do so, I'd not burn so much fuel while idling on the freeway - getting ZERO mpg does neither my wallet nor the air quality any good at all.

How does jacking up fuel prices "spin up the economy," anyhow? I'm curious - the more you raise the price of necessaries, the less disposable income there is out there, and the economy would seem to slow down, rather than spin up. Don't even get me started on why crude goes up to begin with - it's not like they actually MAKE the stuff, and the equipment is already in place for most major pumping activities...

5-90

CommandoXJ96 · May 10, 2006

speaking of mpg - this new (i think - i just saw it for the first time) thing claims an 11.6 percent improvement in gas efficiency! I have no clue if it works... but the EPA says it does.... anyone have any thoughts/info?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/...-2005684/N-10101+111+10201+4294966750/c-10101

goodburbon · May 10, 2006

speaking of mpg - this new (i think - i just saw it for the first time) thing claims an 11.6 percent improvement in gas efficiency! I have no clue if it works... but the EPA says it does.... anyone have any thoughts/info?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...966750/c-10101

snake oil. gasoline is not polar, and is a HYDRO-CARBON.

Hydrogen= flammable gas, not magnetic
Carbon=flammable black solid, not magnetic

Fuel used to be leaded, wouldn't help that either since lead isn't magnetic. Just keep the engine clean and don't buy into cheap "magically simple" solutions.

having said that I have a magically simple solution that I can't figure out how to manufacture, it won't be super cheap and will involve a fairly complex installation, but should yield acutal performance and economy gains on any four stroke engine.

SCW · May 10, 2006

I bumped my fuel economy from 18mpg to 35mpg for just $500. This saves me $75/month in gas, and I only drive about 800 miles per month.

AND....I get to park the Jeep a lot more often, letting me tear into things that take more than a few hours.

The downside is I drive a POS Nissan Sentra to work now....that kinda sucks.

WB9YZU · May 10, 2006

Slo-Sho said:
Analog vacuum gauge...this is a really useful tool in determining the mechanical operation of the engine efficiency wise.http://www.car-stuff.com/images/cs_performance/images/autometer/2610.jpg

Following the 70s fuel crisis, these became popular.
When hooked to manifold vacuum on a normally asparated engine, you can get feedback letting you know how had the engine is working, or rather how hard you are making it work. The guage was relabeled so that low vacuum=low ecconomy and high vacuum=high ecconomy. Worked pretty well, when folks used it.

I had a 4WD light on my 85' which worked just like that. When the light went on in 2WD, you were on the gas too hard. Yah, turned out the T-Case switch was messed up, but it made a great indicator of when fuel milage was in the dumps.

RichP- Some very simple things go a long way. This should be coupled with the Gear thread. It's all inter-related.

Slo-Sho · May 10, 2006

Zuki-Ron said:
Following the 70s fuel crisis, these became popular.
When hooked to manifold vacuum on a normally asparated engine, you can get feedback letting you know how had the engine is working, or rather how hard you are making it work. The guage was relabeled so that low vacuum=low ecconomy and high vacuum=high ecconomy. Worked pretty well, when folks used it.

I had a 4WD light on my 85' which worked just like that. When the light went on in 2WD, you were on the gas too hard. Yah, turned out the T-Case switch was messed up, but it made a great indicator of when fuel milage was in the dumps.

LMAO.

extending MPG, some notes

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