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Putting together a 4:1 (teralow)

Kejtar

Kejtar

PostMaster General
NAXJA Member
Location
Westminster, SoCal
It's going to a case I had setup for RE hack and tap and the case has probably 200K+ miles on it. Anyways before I start I want to make sure that I have everything for it. So:

1. Is the wide chain really worth the extra $? (if so who has it for the least amount of the green stuff)
2. Appart from a new chain (whether it's standard or wide) and the front output bearing should I replace anything else? Oh yeah, I also am picking up a JB HD SYE to go with it to replace my hack and tap.


Remi
P.S. I got the 2low waiting to go into it to.
 
How about the front ouput shaft pilot bearing? If you need one I have one you can have. And I also have a spare range fork in excellent shape if yours is worn. Or does the tera low come with a new one? Let me know.

Kyung
 
Doesn't the 4-1 come with a wide chain?

If not, it should. Sloppy chains suck ass. I could see stretching one REAL quick with the additional gearing.
 
CRASH said:
Doesn't the 4-1 come with a wide chain?

If not, it should. Sloppy chains suck ass. I could see stretching one REAL quick with the additional gearing.
Click to expand...
I didn't think about the faster stretch due to additional gearing: very good point. Are there different varieties/brands of the wider chain?
 
corbinafly said:
How about the front ouput shaft pilot bearing? If you need one I have one you can have. And I also have a spare range fork in excellent shape if yours is worn. Or does the tera low come with a new one? Let me know.

Kyung
Click to expand...
Thanks, but I think that the 4:1 has a new range fork (if not I got an extra 231 laying around ;) )
 
The TeraLOW doesn't come with a wide chain kit. I think it would probably be a good idea to do a wide chain kit, but I have rarely ever seen upgrading to a wide chain kit mentioned when talking about doing a TeraLOW 4:1.
 
Call over to tri-county gear,,, last time I was digging in to my t-case, I ask them about the wider chain, he (can't remember the guys name) said unless I am running 400hp, there is no need as the stock chain will last quite well. I agree the lower gearing might add some stress,,, but in reality, the tires will still have the same traction, so the load isn't any greater, only the "ease" at which you can apply the torque. IMHO, I don't think it's going to be worth it, but they are very knowledgable and should have some insite.....
http://www.tricountygear.com/contactus.htm
 
Wow Kleake.

I never knew there were soooo many 4.0's pushing out over 400 hp.

After all stretched chains are common. I'm gonna have to find out how those guys got so many ponies out of their sixes!
 
GSequoia said:
Wow Kleake.

I never knew there were soooo many 4.0's pushing out over 400 hp.

After all stretched chains are common. I'm gonna have to find out how those guys got so many ponies out of their sixes!
Click to expand...

Stretched chains are fairly common,,, usually after 150-200K on them....

My point was that in stock form, there is no need to go to the wider chain, and the lower gearing does not really change the torque load on the chain as the tires will still break loose at the same point in 4 low as they would in 4 hi...

Think of it like this,, you are pulling someone out of a mud hole and have the hp to spin all 4 tires in 4 hi,,,,, if you go to 4 low is there a bigger load on your axles, drive shafts and chain? The only difference is with the lower gearing, the engine and tranny are not working as hard, but after the gearing down in the transfer case, it is all the same from that point on, and the chain comes after the gearing.

The only time there would be much of a difference on the chain is if you had a tire wedged where it could not rotate, and previously did not have enough HP to turn it,,, and now your gearing would allow more torque to rotate it. To make it simple,,, tire size and axle gearing will make a bigger load on the chain than a 4:1 kit....
 
kleake said:
Stretched chains are fairly common,,, usually after 150-200K on them....

My point was that in stock form, there is no need to go to the wider chain, and the lower gearing does not really change the torque load on the chain as the tires will still break loose at the same point in 4 low as they would in 4 hi...

Think of it like this,, you are pulling someone out of a mud hole and have the hp to spin all 4 tires in 4 hi,,,,, if you go to 4 low is there a bigger load on your axles, drive shafts and chain? The only difference is with the lower gearing, the engine and tranny are not working as hard, but after the gearing down in the transfer case, it is all the same from that point on, and the chain comes after the gearing.

The only time there would be much of a difference on the chain is if you had a tire wedged where it could not rotate, and previously did not have enough HP to turn it,,, and now your gearing would allow more torque to rotate it. To make it simple,,, tire size and axle gearing will make a bigger load on the chain than a 4:1 kit....
Click to expand...

what about torque multiplication?

4 low before - ~200 ft.lbsx3.8 first gearx2.72 for low range - 2067.2 ft.lbs the chain holds

4 low with 4:1 ~200x3.8x4 - 3040 ft.lbs
...
...
...
 
XJ_ranger said:
what about torque multiplication?

4 low before - ~200 ft.lbsx3.8 first gearx2.72 for low range - 2067.2 ft.lbs the chain holds

4 low with 4:1 ~200x3.8x4 - 3040 ft.lbs
...
...
...
Click to expand...

Why do you have to bring engineering into this.....it just makes too much sense.
 
XJ_ranger said:
what about torque multiplication?

4 low before - ~200 ft.lbsx3.8 first gearx2.72 for low range - 2067.2 ft.lbs the chain holds

4 low with 4:1 ~200x3.8x4 - 3040 ft.lbs
...
...
...
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% if your wheels are glued to the ground. If your tires are going to break loose at say 1800ft lbs before, then how do you figure you are going to get 3040 ft lbs of traction after adding the kit?

I definitely agree that as tire size and traction go up then yes, it would be a benefit, but if your tire size and traction doesn't warrant it, then it won't be worth it. The 4:1 doesn't have anything to do with tires size and traction,, it only allows you to move at a slower speed, and "IF" you don't have the power to turn your current tire, it allows you to gain more torque so that you can turn them...

Besides that,, if you plan to use all of that 3040 ft lbs, you better look at more upgrades than a chain.

I welcome the engineering,,, but make sure you apply the same engineering to the traction side as well... After all, isn't traction the weakest link in 4 wheelin? If it doesn't go up, how does the load on anything else go up?
 
GSequoia said:
Your argument is invalid in rocks Kleake.
Click to expand...

I agree rocks will stress many more components including the chain...... It's just my opinion.... If you are running tires larger than 35 and have enough traction to warrant it,,,, then it's probably a good idea...... If not, there are better things to spend the money on....

1 question though,,, which I don't have enough experience on myself.. How many chains have you seen replaced due to stretching that have less than 100K on them, and have been used with 35 or smaller tires?
 
I would think that the 4.1 would put less tress on the chain than stock. Without the 4.1 you are applying more torgue load to move the vehicle whereas with the 4.1 you will be appling less torgue load to move the vehicle the same distance because of the lower gearing. Isnt that the whole piont of lower gearing? less work for the drivetrain to do the same job. Just my 2 cent.
 
jeepme said:
I would think that the 4.1 would put less tress on the chain than stock. Without the 4.1 you are applying more torgue load to move the vehicle whereas with the 4.1 you will be appling less torgue load to move the vehicle the same distance because of the lower gearing. Isnt that the whole piont of lower gearing? less work for the drivetrain to do the same job. Just my 2 cent.
Click to expand...

Partially right.... It would actually be exactly the same stress after the gear reduction which includes the chain. It is much less stresss before the reduction...
 
jeepme said:
I would think that the 4.1 would put less tress on the chain than stock. Without the 4.1 you are applying more torgue load to move the vehicle whereas with the 4.1 you will be appling less torgue load to move the vehicle the same distance because of the lower gearing. Isnt that the whole piont of lower gearing? less work for the drivetrain to do the same job. Just my 2 cent.
Click to expand...


It's all about input torque. Torque is torque, no matter if it comes from a 4 cylinder engine making 100 ft/lbs multiplied 5 times through gearing reduction, or a 500 ft/lb Cummins in 4th gear (no reduction). Anything behind the reduction sees the torque your engine can produce at a given RPM, and that includes the chain in a chain drive case behind the planetary reduction box.
 
OK, here's an experiment for you. Park your Jeep on Moab or Sierra rock. Engage low range, bring the RPM's to 3,500. Side-step the clutch.

The chain in 4 to 1 case sees 47% more torque than the 2.72 case.


kleake said:
I agree with you 100% if your wheels are glued to the ground. If your tires are going to break loose at say 1800ft lbs before, then how do you figure you are going to get 3040 ft lbs of traction after adding the kit?

I definitely agree that as tire size and traction go up then yes, it would be a benefit, but if your tire size and traction doesn't warrant it, then it won't be worth it. The 4:1 doesn't have anything to do with tires size and traction,, it only allows you to move at a slower speed, and "IF" you don't have the power to turn your current tire, it allows you to gain more torque so that you can turn them...

Besides that,, if you plan to use all of that 3040 ft lbs, you better look at more upgrades than a chain.

I welcome the engineering,,, but make sure you apply the same engineering to the traction side as well... After all, isn't traction the weakest link in 4 wheelin? If it doesn't go up, how does the load on anything else go up?
Click to expand...
 
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