Truly sickening...

C.diesel · Sep 2, 2005

Just a couple of thoughts...

I do feel very bad for all of the people that evacuated the cities when they were ordered to and now see the pictures on the news and realize that they have nothing left. I am sorry for the people that could not get out of the area because they did not have the means or transportation to do so.

Now, with that being said...

1. If you live on the coast in that part of the country then you have to accept the fact that there are going to be hurricanes and eventually you are going to get a major one. If you are going to gamble with that sort of thing then you need to be willing to accept the risks. This is not a situation where there was a 8.0 magnitude earthquake in Kansas City. This is a forseeable event. It is not like anyone forced these people to live in New Orleans or on the coast. I have read at least one article a year for the last five years saying that if a major hurricane ever hit New Orleans the city was going to be screwed. If you live on the coast in a toliet bowl that sits below sea level, it does not take a lot of brains to figure out that you are betting on some bad odds.

2. When the evacuations were called there were a lot of people that stayed. I think that it is reasonable to assume that many (the great majority) of those people could have gotten out of places like New Orleans but stayed. I watched the pictures of the people that waited in line to get into the Superdome before the storm hit and let me tell you that I did not see a lot of elderly people that looked unable to get transportation in those lines. What I saw was a lot of people in their 20s and 30s who looked like they should have been able to get out of town. From my view, I saw a lot of people that did not make the effort to try to get out of town and took what they thought would be the easy option that was provided by the city. Please understand that I AM NOT talking about the people that truely could not get out. However, common sence would tell you that the majority of the people that could not get out of town (elderly and people without any means of transportation) probably would not get to the Superdome anyway.

3. I watched interviews with the mayor of New Orleans and the Gov of La. before the hurricane hit and BOTH of them said that THEY WERE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT LOOTING AFTER THE STORM. They said that the people of New Orleans and La. were not capable of doing something like that in a situation like this. Well, that is about the same time where they should have been preparing for the situation that is occuring right now. Anyone with any common sence could have told you that there was going to be mass looting in New Orleans. Look at the demographics of the city and the crime rates there on a yearly basis for a clue. It would have been easier to contain the situation if the Gov and the Mayor would have prepared for the eventuality and were not in denial until Tuesday.

4. I also heard an interview with the mayor of New Orleans this morning where he critisized the government for not doing more to get the people out of the Superdome with the horrible conditions that have developed there. This from the same guy that four days ago was asked by a guy on the national news if they had thought through what was going to happen when the piping and sewer system in the Superdome backed up under the load from all of the poeple there. THE MAYOR SAID... WE REALLY HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AT THIS POINT, BUT WE DON'T CONSIDER IT A MAJOR CONCERN. I really don't think that this guy has any right to be critisizing a national government that is trying to help his city out of this mess.

This will happen again if they go back in and rebuild this city. The city never should have been built there in the first place. We can thank the French for starting that one. However, if you have any brains and common sence you would not subject yourself and your family to those kind of odds. If New Orleans was a building it would have been condemed long ago. It is not a safe place to have a city. They should distribute the insurance money, donations and federal funds to the people and companies affected by this and tell them to move somewhere else. That city should not be rebuilt, it is just asking for another disaster down the road.

Rocketman · Sep 2, 2005

The problem in NOLA is classsic politics. Every group is looking at every other group to do something and TAKE CHARGE. No one has stepped to the plate and said. OK, I'm the boss, you do this, and you do this, and you over there you do that. No one wants responsibility or accountability. Everything, the blame will pass to Bush. There SEEMS to be little or no shared communications amongst those pretending to be in charge. They ever heard of CB RADIO?? NO, their Starbucks is closed and looted and they cant get a good cell signal!

Bush is on the ground there as I speak. I have a friend/co-worker who is a Brig General in the Illinois Guard. Until an hour ago, the Pentagon was putting off deployments there day by day until early NEXT WEEK. Now he gets the call he's on a plane to Baton Rouge at 4:00PM today. Sounds like Bush is embarrased. He should be, the Feds should be, FEMA should be. No matter waht happens in Iraq or the M.E. here forward, Bush willl be remembered for NOLA.

The stories from the Superdome and NOLA seem to be recycled and played over and over. It's impossible to determine the CURRENT state of the situation because no one truly knows.

We better get our sh*t together damn quick down there. If this is how things would go in a "non-natural" disaster, GOD HELP US. My kids will know how to camp, and live off the land, they will know how to defend themselves, and take care of each other.

If the situation down in NOLA doeesn't scare the Hell out of you, you aren't thinking. A change is needed in our Government. We need LEADERS.

"The People should never fear their Governement, the Government should fear it's People!"

casm · Sep 2, 2005

Rocketman said:
The problem in NOLA is classsic politics. Every group is looking at every other group to do something and TAKE CHARGE.

My understanding is that a large part of the problem is with NO and Louisiana government playing the 'we're just fine, thanks' game. The situation is clearly unmanaged and out of control, but they want to keep giving off the impression that they actually know what they are doing. It's not fooling anyone.

If the situation down in NOLA doeesn't scare the Hell out of you, you aren't thinking. A change is needed in our Government. We need LEADERS.

We need a change in the electorate, too. As long as people are fat, stupid, and stuck in front of the idiot box it'll never happen.

PhunkXJ · Sep 2, 2005

Bent said:
I'm curious as to why Jesse Jackson has been so quiet.

He was on the news last night saying how one or two shots fired shouldn't halt evacuations. BS, yeah so we should risk helipcopters being shot down crashing and burning into the superdome and killing many more people. Jesse Jackson is staying in Louisianna until this matter is resolved... in Baton Rouge. WTF doesn't he put his ass in danger and try pleading with those ingrates who are creating more havoc, to stop their foolish madness, pull together and help each other out until help arrives, since the federal aid obviously doesn't have their shit together.

I have been watching way too much coverage and have absolutely worked myself up into a frenzy over it. I was an emotional disaster last night, one minute I was crying over these people who REALLY were desperate for help, and the next second I'm completely raging over the assholes raping women in the superdome, shooting at police and military personel, and looting.

I don't know who is to blame here, the slow reaction of the relief agencies or the violent, criminal like, animals running that city and this situation even further into the ground. There is no way in hell I would haul my compassionate ass down there to help the needy when there was a great chance I would be robbed, shot at or held at gunpoint. I heard on the radio a few helicopters with food and water tried landing today, only to be immediately charged by desperate people, and had to go back up in the air. These people are desperate and have become savages doing whatever necessary to get what they want and need.

Where the hell is the Red Cross in this situation anyways? I watched coverage last night for over 3 hours, and have been listening to talk news radio all morning, not once have I heard mention of the Red Cross and their "game plan." I've seen their commercials begging for donations though...

There are thousands of people who have left the city, like they were told to, most who didn't have the money and barely the means to do so. These people are camped out under viaducts in surrounding areas, crowding shelters, in desperate need of food and clean water. Where is the relief? I half understand not sending innocent people into that "war zone" with out military or police protection, but why isn't relief set up outside the city limits where people are escaping to?

Whoever said America is too SOFT is spot on. the people on N.O. need to suck it up right now and deal with the fact that thier government dropped the ball. They need to pull together and help the sick, young, elderly and those not capable of helping themselves. They need to put others first and act like a community, quit acting like animals and start being rational. They need to take some responsibility for their personal well being instead of going on TV bitching no one is helping them and giving them what they need.

karstic · Sep 2, 2005

casm said:
We need a change in the electorate, too. As long as people are fat, stupid, and stuck in front of the idiot box being told that the gov't will take care of youit'll never happen.

Fixed it for you

US society has grown into a society of enablers. John Q Public is told by Joe Politician, "Vote for me and you will be taken care of!" John Q Public likes the sound of that and votes for Joe Politician and is happy with all the entitlements given out by Joe Politician and Mary Bureaucrat, but when the SHTF, John Q Public is left hanging in the wind, or as in this case stewing in a POS.

Darky · Sep 2, 2005

I kinda gotta agree with not necessarily sending too many people in until some of this straightens out. IE: the cops telling people to get back, etc because of all the idiocy happening. I wouldn't want to risk my police officers to help someone who may or may not shoot you in the back...not in my own country where there is no warzone. That and a lot of good points have been brought as to why is that even a city? I had never known it was 20' below sea level...I thought it was just a place in the path of at least a couple hurricanes a year. When I lived in upstate NY, every year the people that chose to build their big fancy houses right on the coast of Lake Ontario would need evacuation and money to rebuild after the runoff from the snow melting caused the lake to overrun its bounds and knock their houses down. Every yearthey'd cry and complain about what a disaster it was and every year they'd take the NY gov't and fed gov'ts money to rebuild right where their house just got washed away from.

w_howey · Sep 2, 2005

Lincoln said:
Nothing of the sort. My point was is the barracks should be less full with all bunch of soilders over seas. Also, the military bases are usually setup more like a small town. Yes it would burden them, but supplies would be easier to get in and the sanitary conditions should be better.

If I was closer I wouldn't have a problem helping out and opening my door. Since I'm not I just sent money via the red cross. Not the best, but I felt it was worth it.

Not to mention, you don't have to worry about being shot at, or having the little bit you have left looted.

If you think about it, it is a pretty reasonable idea. Tax payers paid for absolutely all the structures, and fixtures. If the soldiers who are based there are deployed, what is in the buildings?

w_howey · Sep 2, 2005

woody said:
I read Lincoln's post with the same (good) thoughts...

Mil installations are set up to accomodate large #s of folks... I didn't see his idea being uprooting soldiers for refugees... (GI John you know what a PIA it is to secure/inventory a soldier's pers property & barracks room prior to deployment) More that a typical base has capacity to deal with an inflow of personnel... and usually have un/underutilized areas that can serve as temp quarters. Most bases have dozens of wazoo kitchens, lavs, laundry, water purif, medical etc... Sure it would stretch them.

The only drawbacks I can see using mil facilities is that the "guests" present a host of hazards... from medical to criminal. Post 9-11, most bases are semi-closed environments, so 'most' guests wouldn't likely get Holiday Inn treatment.

Woods, ask the folks stuck in the SuperDome if they're getting the 'Holiday Inn' treatment. After the conditions they have been in for a week, I have a feeling the semi-controlled enviroment of a base would be quite the welcome.

tetsulo · Sep 2, 2005

My Fiance' has a lot of relatives living in NO/LA area and some haven't been able to be contacted yet. As part of the flurry of emails going around the family as people check in, etc, this was included with it. I thought it was interesting reading. Although who on earth has a name like Chrystal Lemons?

Subject line was 'relayed info for safety'

Guys I just wanted to share some information that was just relayed to me. A guy I know spoke to his friend that works at the police department this morning and he told him something that he said you probably won't see on the news - which you will figure out why when reading. He informed him that everyone needs to be extremely careful right now and to tune in to what is really happening around you. He said that we need to remember that there are thousands of good people that are elderly, children and helpless being housed with people that are criminals and dope addicts going through withdrawals out of no choice. He said that there has already been a rape in the dome of a woman by two men and they are writing graffiti on the walls and some are going through withdrawals and have been violent to innocent people. He said that these people can not be contained to the dome and some are desperate and that desperate people do things that th! ey might not ordinarily do. He said to heighten your awareness and to put your intelligence ahead of your pity. He said to not drive with your doors unlocked because there has been some cases in Louisiana and one in Texas of carjacking. When you pump gas, lock the car doors till you get finished. Don't open your doors for solicitation. No one from Red Cross or a reliable organization will go door to door. Do not open your window to speak to people that are on the side of the road. Some might be from the disaster but some may just be taking advantage of the situation and you and you might be in danger to open your window.

He said to do your donations to the Red Cross or other reliable source. He said that we need to remember that there are thousands of good people but they are being housed with the bad out of no choice. They need our help but not to try to go alone to do it for your own safety. Bring donations to the drop off locations or notify someone to pick it up.

I passed this on, because I have been kinda in a trance from the disbelief of the magnitude of this. When he told me this, I just couldn't believe that people could hurt someone that was trying to help or someone that is in a bad situation the same as you. I thought why is he saying this, those people are hurting they surely wouldn't hurt others that are helping, but after thinking about it, I realized that there are thousands of people with nothing and nothing to lose, they need help.This is sad but it is realistic, I just wanted to pass it on to you because I just wanted you to be alert to what danger could be out there to you and your family which ordinarily might not be because of desperation. Please make your children and friends aware that their sadness for the situation could be taken advantage of.

We need to all pray really hard right now.

Chrystal Lemons
Land Coordinator

Gridikal · Sep 2, 2005

I don't even think they are even in the superdome anymore do to the conditions inside.

C.diesel · Sep 3, 2005

There is no way that you are going to put these people on a military base. I am in the Army and in this age (post sept 11) the military is fairly selective about who they allow on bases. If you did put them on a military base you would have to confine them to barracks, basically putting them under arrest. The public would never stand for that even in these extreme circumstances. The military is not going to allow a group like this to have access to a military installation. This idea would not work. They are probably going to have to end up with a tent city kind of set up in several locations.

Glenn B · Sep 3, 2005

Here is another angle on the news (Yes, it is my site, but not commercial). No, it is not CNN, MSNBC, FOX etc... and the spin that they put on it. It is all compiled from releases of the Military, and those on the ground (or in the air) actually helping.

For those wanting to set blame, how about we do that later?

Here is an index of the articles so far (this is updated throughout the day):
(Order is oldest to newest. #1 is redundant, as all articles were re-done to allow better searching).

Lincoln · Sep 3, 2005

I'll read all of that later Glenn. :thumbup:

Lincoln · Sep 3, 2005

C.diesel said:
There is no way that you are going to put these people on a military base. I am in the Army and in this age (post sept 11) the military is fairly selective about who they allow on bases. If you did put them on a military base you would have to confine them to barracks, basically putting them under arrest. The public would never stand for that even in these extreme circumstances. The military is not going to allow a group like this to have access to a military installation. This idea would not work. They are probably going to have to end up with a tent city kind of set up in several locations.

Sadly that is probably why they are not there.

I am talking tempory as in a few weeks until those alternative areas are being setup. The military could surely handle that.

Glenn B · Sep 3, 2005

Lincoln said:
Sadly that is probably why they are not there.

I am talking tempory as in a few weeks until those alternative areas are being setup. The military could surely handle that.

That will likely be forthcoming, no doubt.

red91 · Sep 3, 2005

Glenn said:
That will likely be forthcoming, no doubt.

as it should be...they've closed enough of them down....fire'em back up.

sometimes the simple solutions get overlooked.

Lincoln · Sep 3, 2005

Maybe I think to highly of people, but I think the looters are very few. Does anyone know the statistics on prison inmates and felons vs. the population? Cram 25,000 desperate people in a hole and your bad people in there. Then the only ones that brought weapons were the bad ones because the rest planned on support. Then to top it off they got to look at a row of busses for three days waiting for them to come get them. How about we do a test? I'll stop eating for three days and then you can put a fat guy in front of me eating a sandwich. I give him 30 seconds. Extreme comparission but not to far off.

As Hinkley and ? stated this is one of the poorest places in the nation. Many of those homes that are under water were built there for the poor because it was cheap. Look up and down the Mississippi and you will probably find that the areas that are prone to flooding also are poor populations. Basically the other side of the tracks in todays world.

Ramsey · Sep 3, 2005

very true lincoln. i feel so relieved now that things are finally happening down there, and people are being taken care of. nows not the time to address why it took 5 days. get the people safe then hopefully someone will answer that for us. 60 countries donating money, including cuba and venezuela. un sec had it right when he said that the country most generous in donating to other people are in need, i'm just thrilled people are finally responding. i spoke with some evacues at my school today, one man had just got off the bus from the west bank, they have such high spirits and seem to be doing great.

Glenn B · Sep 3, 2005

Yup, "finally". The Military started that very day... but *they* are "finally" are doing something. Shows alot about what the press has shown of the events of the last few days... Suffering sells... but the fact that stuff has been being done since day 1 escapes many.

Ramsey · Sep 3, 2005

yeah "stuff" stuff not including getting sick and dying people out and keeping a supply of water.

Truly sickening...

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