New news for Shell Rotella

[lonecountryboy]

Well I just got off the phone with the oil guru at a local place here and it looks like the shell rotella is also going to be zddp free very shortly or be drastically reduced if it hasn't already. So it looks like the only option now is the lucas additive or the comp cams additive. Nice of all these a-holes to tell us what they are up to. Oh well just thought I would put the word out.:gonnablow

 

[kujito]

Time to stock up on Rotella.
Apparently Redline oil products are "non-API" approved and therefore still contain zddp.
Eastwood (www.eastwoodco.com) sells a zddp additive for ~$10/4 oz. bottle. Multi-packs give you a buck off. Still trying to get ahold of someone @ Redline to verify. updates to follow.

 

[Ecomike]

Well I just got off the phone with the oil guru at a local place here and it looks like the shell rotella is also going to be zddp free very shortly or be drastically reduced if it hasn't already. So it looks like the only option now is the lucas additive or the comp cams additive. Nice of all these a-holes to tell us what they are up to. Oh well just thought I would put the word out.:gonnablow

Lucas oil additive, dyno version, has no ZDDP in it.

 

[rworks]

Whats so special about Rotella? Isn't Pennzoil (or Valvoline, etc.) good enough?

 

[5-90]

Whats so special about Rotella? Isn't Pennzoil (or Valvoline, etc.) good enough?

Search up <API Energy Saving> WRT engine oils.

ZDDP is an organometallic anti-scuff additive that contributed significantly to component longevity in our engines - particularly tappets and camshaft lobes. Most production engines now come with roller tappets and roller rockers/followers, so they don't need the anti-scuff additives (and the organometallic additives have been linked to catalyst clogging and failure.)

However, for older flat tappet engines (like ours,) we must have a significant amount of organometallic anti-scuff additive - and the one typically used is ZDDP. If it's not present in oil (as with the "API Energy Saving" oils - I don't recall the Sx rating for it - SM?) it must be added. If it's not there, you're looking at a cam failure in short order.

This has nothing to do with component quality - it has to do with oil contents. It's kinda like trying to live on nothing but candy - you can do it for a bit, but you won't last long because you're not getting various nutrients that you need. Think of ZDDP as a "nutrient" for a "healthy engine" - if it's not getting the ZDDP it needs, it will get "fatally ill" on you.

 

[cherokee chuck]

Rotella? sounds like a black chick I used to date back in the 60s.

 

[TRSCobra]

Whats so special about Rotella? Isn't Pennzoil (or Valvoline, etc.) good enough?

At one time, all motor oils contained a small amount of zinc dithiophosphate (zddp) as an anti-wear agent. They discovered this stuff is bad for catalytic converters and emissions; and with almost every engine going full roller valvetrain, this anti-wear additive is no longer needed in modern oils. Well, with our flat-tappet engine design, we'll see increased cam lobe wear without ZDDP.

Shell rotella was one of the last off-the-shelf oils to contain enough ZDDP to be desireable for use in flat tappet engines.

 

[TRSCobra]

Way to beat me to it, 5-90!:smsoap:

 

[lonecountryboy]

Lucas has a additive that is a supplement for ZDDP. It is 10-12 dollars and will do 5-6 quarts as does comp cams but my local store only carries the lucas

 

[rworks]

I found an article that talks about zddp and its use in tappen engines, and he says that several other oils qualify.

I'm not nearly smart enough to know if he's right or not, so I attach the link so that others smarter than me can opine. He also says that oils graded as "CI-4" or equivalent have the necessary additives, so I attached the link as well.

http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf
http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByServiceCategory.asp?ServiceCategory=CI-4


The bottom line I'd like to hear from you guys is which oil do I use now? I'm currently running Rotella because thats what "they" said to use when I put in the new cam. Of course, "they" didn't say to use Rotella, only that it was "better".

Also, is the zddp really necessary? One guy in my office has an 88 XJ with the 4.0L and he uses nothing but Pennzoil for the last 220,000 miles with no issues. His XJ runs fine.

Sorry if I've hijacked the thread.

 

[Daedalus454]

That sounds odd, I just bought a bunch of the new Triple Protect CJ-4 (the "new" formula) and it has 1200 ppm ZDDP according to good ol' Stumpalump after he talked to the oil guys at Shell - see this thread:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=944980&highlight=Rotella

Who is this "oil guy" and where does he get his information? I find it highly doubtful that Shell would switch out their formula again so soon after releasing the new CJ-4 Rotella.

 

[kujito]

So, I got ahold of Dave @ Redline Oil. Their oils have a ZDDP level of 1200 ppm. He looked up the '89 4.0 and sid that it needs 1175 ppm. They also sell a ZDDP additive. It's not that API certified oils will be free of the stuff, just severely reduced levels (not enough for our engines). Redline is retail available. Their site shows it as available @ several checker/advance and vato zone here in the Denver area.

http://www.redlineoil.com/

After checking a few sites:
AutoZone has the additive, no oil
checker and others don't have either(locally), but it can be found at several performance shops

 

[CRJeepin]

There was a huge thread on ROF a while back with good information on the wear properties of different oils and requirements of engines with flat tappet cams. My takeaway was that the Mobil 1 High Mileage had the zinc & phosphorus contents that our motors needed, and that most oils rated ACEA A1, A5 or (best of all) A3 would perform as well.


For what it's worth, Mobil 1 has a summary of their oils here that I found useful. They show the ZDDP (phosphorus) content (ppm) on the far right hand column. I wasn't sure that ZDDP and phosphorus were the same thing, but if you look at the chart under the row for Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck they say "ZDDP (phosphorus)" in the application column:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

 

[xj88superjeep]

Castrol GTX diesel 15w 40 has the zinc in it, and they also list all their 20w 50 oils as fitting our application also, but I have not looked up the data on them yet. Gonna look when I get home. I used the diesel GTX, as it is listed for heavy duty applications, and extended use applications.

 

[TRSCobra]

Also, is the zddp really necessary? One guy in my office has an 88 XJ with the 4.0L and he uses nothing but Pennzoil for the last 220,000 miles with no issues. His XJ runs fine.

The API changes the standard for "energy conserving" motor oils every few years. In recent years, the ZDDP is no longer required due to the higher emissions it produces. The pennzoil he was running from years past is not the same pennzoil they make today.

 

[XJLI]

Castrol GTX diesel 15w 40 has the zinc in it, and they also list all their 20w 50 oils as fitting our application also, but I have not looked up the data on them yet. Gonna look when I get home. I used the diesel GTX, as it is listed for heavy duty applications, and extended use applications.

same stuff i recently changed to.

 

[5-90]

Way to beat me to it, 5-90!:smsoap:

Ha, ha!

 

[outlander]

since the government gives out coupons for free tv converter boxes they should send us all a coupon for a roller valvetrain for our motors so they can screw with the formulations all the want.....

 

[90Blue_XJ]

TRy this link for ZDDP!
http://www.zddplus.com/

 

[Jonathan]

Just to clarify a bit, ZDDP won't really clog the catalytic converter: what it will do is poison (via surface coating) the platinum, causing it to no longer function correctly. Airflow shouldn't be affected, unless somehow you get enough hydrocarbon deposits (from inactive platinum) to cause physical obstruction.

It also shouldn't cause any substantial extra emissions, except again as a secondary effect from a poisoned cat.