JcrOffroad Prototyping and Redesigns!

[MoparManiac]

I've never purchased a JCR bumper, but I don't see the problem here.

First off, I HIGHLY doubt they are increasing their production time (at least anything of significance) by cutting square holes on flat plate, assuming they're using a CNC plasma table or something similar.

Second, they've already taken customer feedback by way of who has ACTUALLY purchased product. Listening to people whine on a board that they want a product and then never buy it really hurts their business (i.e. I'm thinking back to the MJ rear bumpers they produced...everyone cried for those).

I'm sorry but I don't see the fail in their logic.

 

[Weasel]

The light holes look fine. Square fit the vehicle anyways, notice the squarish headlights? Your not locked into anything more than if you had round holes. And placement is fine, where else are you going to put them.. Highlift would fit well if you didn't have lights in it.

Product looks good!

 

[RedHeep]

The only real fail they've had is not bringing hot dogs to winterfest.

 

[Jeepedo129]

The light holes look fine. Square fit the vehicle anyways, notice the squarish headlights? Your not locked into anything more than if you had round holes. And placement is fine, where else are you going to put them.. Highlift would fit well if you didn't have lights in it.

Product looks good!

X2

 

[besthaticouldo]

so... your taking a very sharp looking bumper that would otherwise flow nicely, cutting a couple lego blocks out of it, increasing your production time, and then telling people you dont want to hear it? it quickly went from prototype to production. i think you skipped the customer feedback portion of the prototyping.


50% of the xj market is young broke kids. i promise you people are going to look at the bumper, tell themselves they cant afford a bumper and LEDs at once and dont want empty holes, and move on.

You don't have to buy the LEDs at the same time.

 

[SC Rednek]

I have been running a JCR bumper with tire carrier since 2007. Because of all the weight bouncing back and forth above the bumper (blue arrow), it's destroyed the backend of my jeep at the rear crossmember (green arrows). I've had to re-build and reinforce it multiple times. From what I can tell, these newer versions are still mounted on just the 8 little stock bolts, and the 2 bolts on the frame tie in, same as my old bumper. What has been done to help reduce this problem?

 

[jcroffroad]

I have been running a JCR bumper with tire carrier since 2007. Because of all the weight bouncing back and forth above the bumper (blue arrow), it's destroyed the backend of my jeep at the rear crossmember (green arrows). I've had to re-build and reinforce it multiple times. From what I can tell, these newer versions are still mounted on just the 8 little stock bolts, and the 2 bolts on the frame tie in, same as my old bumper. What has been done to help reduce this problem?

I'm sorry you had this problem. You could add the integrated lowed quarter panel armor to give you more support for the bumper.

We have tried to stick with as little modification as possible and stick to a "bolt on" product. Most XJ can handle it, but there are some that after the years have weakened that rear cross-member.

Any questions feel free to drop me a line or give me a call.

-Allen

 

[SC Rednek]

I'm sorry you had this problem. You could add the integrated lowed quarter panel armor to give you more support for the bumper.

We have tried to stick with as little modification as possible and stick to a "bolt on" product. Most XJ can handle it, but there are some that after the years have weakened that rear cross-member.

Any questions feel free to drop me a line or give me a call.

-Allen

I do wheel harder than most people, so I'm not complaining. Just saying it is a serious issue that could use some upgrading, since you've clearly upgraded the looks and fitment a lot since the Stage 3 (or whatever it was called back then), why not upgrade the strength as well?

When I first noticed how bad the cracks were (the bumper smashed into the hatch and broke the window) I built a brace that fit behind the crossmember, tied into the inner 4 rear bolts, and the nut strips underneath the frame. I was thinking something like that could be a decent bolt-on addition to the lineup.

Or a piece that runs down the outside of the frame rail, even if it's weld on, could be offered as a possible upgrade as well

 

[Boostwerks.com]

so... your taking a very sharp looking bumper that would otherwise flow nicely, cutting a couple lego blocks out of it, increasing your production time, and then telling people you dont want to hear it? it quickly went from prototype to production. i think you skipped the customer feedback portion of the prototyping.


50% of the xj market is young broke kids. i promise you people are going to look at the bumper, tell themselves they cant afford a bumper and LEDs at once and dont want empty holes, and move on.

Your making the assumption that vendors should try and go after 100% of the market. Unfortunately we live in a world where most vendors will need to go after those who actually have the money and are willing to spend it. In this case, JCR simply has provided more value to their product for those who will eventually end up buying the bumper.

Same reason why most will end up gravitating towards JK products. Trendy's is what I like to call em. :smoker:

 

[RedHeep]

Your making the assumption that vendors should try and go after 100% of the market. Unfortunately we live in a world where most vendors will need to go after those who actually have the money and are willing to spend it. In this case, JCR simply has provided more value to their product for those who will eventually end up buying the bumper.

Same reason why most will end up gravitating towards JK products. Trendy's is what I like to call em. :smoker:

You're making the assumption that the people who like the square cutouts in the bumper are also the people who are going to buy one.

Nice arguement, but still the same assumption that is made in the opposite direction.

 

[Tony_SS]

There's only one way to settle this. Offer them with or without the square cutouts for a trial run and we'll see who is right.

 

[RedHeep]

There's only one way to settle this. Offer them with or without the square cutouts for a trial run and we'll see who is right.

Listen, common sense is not welcome here.

 

[besthaticouldo]

You're making the assumption that the people who like the square cutouts in the bumper are also the people who are going to buy one.

Nice arguement, but still the same assumption that is made in the opposite direction.

TBH I bought the bumper specifically because I liked the way the lights fit and looked in there. It was a selling point for me.

 

[jcroffroad]

There's only one way to settle this. Offer them with or without the square cutouts for a trial run and we'll see who is right.

If only this was viable, but unfortunately the XJ purchase numbers are not there anymore.

Think of it this way: I offer two base bumpers right now; With or without a hitch. Now, if offered it with or without lights, we would have the following:

Bumper, no lights, no receiver
Bumper, Lights, no receiver
Bumper, Lights, Receiver
Bumper, No Lights, Receiver

Now let's add tubing for those same options. That gives me 8 front bumper options that I have to try and stock. Where currently, I only have 4 (two which the option for no receiver will most likely go away because 80% have chosen to take the receiver).

Unfortunately there is the aspect of business where you have to do what makes the most sense for the business. Logistically and financially.

We've played the 'Make everything an option' game in the past and it just doesn't cut it on large manufacturing scale. Sure it works if I'm hand building every bumper individually, but that is not the case for us.

Jcr has been building XJ product since 2001. We know the market and we have lots of purchase history to look at and make decisions on. Before we ever decide on what options to offer and not offer we do the math and we run the numbers. The Lights are a cool addition that no one else on the market is offering.

~Brian

 

[jcroffroad]

Reworked our Integrated panels for the new rear bumper design:

We got hung up waiting for some latch parts, so we switch gears and started working on our Rack again.

Prototype:

Here's the full rack/50" LED Light bar rack prototype:

Also made some progress on our JCR Real Hawk project!

More to come!
~Brian

 

[Tony_SS]

If only this was viable, but unfortunately the XJ purchase numbers are not there anymore.

Think of it this way: I offer two base bumpers right now; With or without a hitch. Now, if offered it with or without lights, we would have the following:

Bumper, no lights, no receiver
Bumper, Lights, no receiver
Bumper, Lights, Receiver
Bumper, No Lights, Receiver

Now let's add tubing for those same options. That gives me 8 front bumper options that I have to try and stock. Where currently, I only have 4 (two which the option for no receiver will most likely go away because 80% have chosen to take the receiver).

Unfortunately there is the aspect of business where you have to do what makes the most sense for the business. Logistically and financially.

We've played the 'Make everything an option' game in the past and it just doesn't cut it on large manufacturing scale. Sure it works if I'm hand building every bumper individually, but that is not the case for us.

Jcr has been building XJ product since 2001. We know the market and we have lots of purchase history to look at and make decisions on. Before we ever decide on what options to offer and not offer we do the math and we run the numbers. The Lights are a cool addition that no one else on the market is offering.

~Brian

I will give you guys credit for pushing the envelope on good design.. you are putting out some great stuff there for the XJ.... I think putting a specific poll on a few forums is good way to get instant feedback from customers too.

 

[jcroffroad]

Made some progress on our Vanguard rear and Adventure carrier:

 

[Boostwerks.com]

You're making the assumption that the people who like the square cutouts in the bumper are also the people who are going to buy one.

Nice arguement, but still the same assumption that is made in the opposite direction.

:nono:

I'm not assuming anything. A company simply can not be everything to everyone. ANY production MFG would go broke if they made every single change to their product that every potential customer requests. What JCR has done is perfectly reasonable, and is simply called adding value to their product.

One option might be to allow someone to order a bumper without the holes, but this would be up to JCR to accept and schedule into production. The customer then needs to be OK with a potentially long lead time. If enough orders are requested, they could then potentially add the product to their line up.

In the small batch manufacturing world we live in, stock levels (especially for us small guys) becomes a HUGE part of the equation. The amount of resources, room to stock parts, cash investment in materials/packaging becomes substantial. Stocking 2 part numbers instead of 1 suddenly becomes a much bigger investment and ties up substantial cash flow. Especially if the product doesn't sell.

 

[Boostwerks.com]

TBH I bought the bumper specifically because I liked the way the lights fit and looked in there. It was a selling point for me.

Quoting for RedHeep.

 

[SC Rednek]

Ok. please explain to me why JCR came to this forum to get suggestions, and I've given some suggestions based on my lengthy experience with their bumpers, and basically get ignored and written off as an extreme case. JCR hasn't improved strength in a decade, and yet the big debate is on little holes for lights. Why not try and improve offroad strength instead of just looks? At least engage in a discussion about ways to improve the strength?

When I ordered my front bumper in '08, I was able to get a different width on the light tabs. When I ordered my rock sliders in '07, I was able to get them shorter than normal, because everything was made to order, at the time of order. Sure it meant a longer lead time, but it was worth it for a quality product, and negates all this debate for thousands of $'s of warehouse stock.

All this thread is convincing me to do, is not recommend JCR to anybody anymore, because you're not there for the individual anymore, just the bulk consumers. Seems to me, all that JCR cares about is the bulk consumer nowadays, not the individual. Gone from individual consideration, to just another bulk producer for profit.